Leeds Rhinos v Wigan Warriors

[Exiled Wiganer]

Wigan seem to have learnt a lot from their mistakes in terms of selecting more props and playing Deacon as a kicker. Leeds weren't as clever as Wire though. Can you imagine what Briers would have done to Goulding? It would have been a massacre on that wing.

[giwildgo]

Wigan seem to have learnt a lot from their mistakes in terms of selecting more props and playing Deacon as a kicker. Leeds weren't as clever as Wire though. Can you imagine what Briers would have done to Goulding? It would have been a massacre on that wing.

Very strange tactics from Leeds not targeting Goulding who was clearly injured.

[1976PMJwires]

Wigan seem to have learnt a lot from their mistakes in terms of selecting more props and playing Deacon as a kicker. Leeds weren't as clever as Wire though. Can you imagine what Briers would have done to Goulding? It would have been a massacre on that wing.

Good point..... Leeds look a spent team...... what do ya think old bean??

[sam]

But why though? The incident was clear and in my view worse than two recent sendings off I've witnessed that were more poor technique than malicious (Coley v Catalans, Boyle v Wigan). Ganson generally is not adverse to getting out the red card.

first, the position of the players, the 'hit' will have been shielded from ganson by them. second, he only blew the whistle in the first place for ablett being offside. third, ignore the wigan players reaction, they were 'protecting a team mate who'd just got clobbered. the wigan fans will have had the best view of the challenge as they will have seen just how high ablett's arms were, tv viewers will have seen it as a shocker because of their viewing angle too. to the leeds fans in the east stand it will have looked ok.

he's not averse to giving out red cards which makes me think if he'd have had a clear view on it he would have. you can't dole out cards based on how loud players and fans shout!

[Dave T]

he's not averse to giving out red cards which makes me think if he'd have had a clear view on it he would have. you can't dole out cards based on how loud players and fans shout!

Yep, Ganson would have sent him off had he seen that IMHO. You can't criticise Ganson for that. That said, I thought the ref was allowed to ask the VR for their opinion on incidents like this...

[giwildgo]

first, the position of the players, the 'hit' will have been shielded from ganson by them. second, he only blew the whistle in the first place for ablett being offside. third, ignore the wigan players reaction, they were 'protecting a team mate who'd just got clobbered. the wigan fans will have had the best view of the challenge as they will have seen just how high ablett's arms were, tv viewers will have seen it as a shocker because of their viewing angle too. to the leeds fans in the east stand it will have looked ok.

he's not averse to giving out red cards which makes me think if he'd have had a clear view on it he would have. you can't dole out cards based on how loud players and fans shout!

Not an unfair point you make in terms of Ganson - but in the end the outcome was still the wrong one. As I said earlier in the thread - the referee and touch judges bottled it. I can't believe 3 separate pairs of eyes failed to see the illegal challenge / point of contact, whereas the video referee (Bentham) has not been adverse in advising the referee of serious foul play in the past (see advice to Child through the earpiece when Coley was sent off in France - correctly I might add).

[Dave T]

Not an unfair point you make in terms of Ganson - but in the end the outcome was still the wrong one. As I said earlier in the thread - the referee and touch judges bottled it. I can't believe 3 separate pairs of eyes failed to see the illegal challenge / point of contact, whereas the video referee (Bentham) has not been adverse in advising the referee of serious foul play in the past (see advice to Child through the earpiece when Coley was sent off in France - correctly I might add).

I think one of the things which saved him was how quick it all happened, it was very difficult to tell in full speed. It looked like a bad one, but it took a replay to confirm it.

[giwildgo]

I think one of the things which saved him was how quick it all happened, it was very difficult to tell in full speed. It looked like a bad one, but it took a replay to confirm it.

I must have good eyes then, because I saw how bad it was first time at full speed from the tv view.

[giwildgo]

I'm awaiting 3owls completely balanced and fair account of the Ablett / Tomkins incident - he is usually such a big critic of foul play and injustice. Maybe I'll have a long wait on this occasion?

[sam]

Not an unfair point you make in terms of Ganson - but in the end the outcome was still the wrong one. As I said earlier in the thread - the referee and touch judges bottled it. I can't believe 3 separate pairs of eyes failed to see the illegal challenge / point of contact, whereas the video referee (Bentham) has not been adverse in advising the referee of serious foul play in the past (see advice to Child through the earpiece when Coley was sent off in France - correctly I might add).

in a perfect world it was the wrong outcome, but the world ain't perfect! the ref only bottled it if he saw the hit perfectly or his tj's said the hit was a shocker.

should the vr offer an opinion..? who knows, in this instance the right decision would have occured, however, it opens up almost every tackle to scrutiny.

[sam]

I think one of the things which saved him was how quick it all happened, it was very difficult to tell in full speed. It looked like a bad one, but it took a replay to confirm it.

i hate to disagree with you, but it was a shocker at full speed!

[giwildgo]

in a perfect world it was the wrong outcome, but the world ain't perfect! the ref only bottled it if he saw the hit perfectly or his tj's said the hit was a shocker.

Fair point, but still find it hard to believe that all three missed it.

should the vr offer an opinion..? who knows, in this instance the right decision would have occured, however, it opens up almost every tackle to scrutiny.

Like I said, there is precedent from the same VR - see no reason why a different approach should have been applied on this occasion. Can't argue with either approach if its consistently applied across the board, but it seems like certain officials apply rules and procedures to suit their mood.

[sam]

I must have good eyes then, because I saw how bad it was first time at full speed from the tv view.

which is the critical point, i had exactly the same view as you and saw pretty much exactly the same thing, the ref was 30 feet(?) lower down with several rather large obstacles potentially blocking his view.

[Dave T]

I must have good eyes then, because I saw how bad it was first time at full speed from the tv view.

I think because it was so unorthodox, it was quite difficult to tell if what you thought had happened had actually happened! (probably makes no sense!).

It's not like a swinging arm, which you can read, this was a freak play and it happened so quickly I questioned whether I had seen it right live. The replay confirmed that I had. Without that replay, I would have perhaps questioned what I had seen.

[Padge]

first, the position of the players, the 'hit' will have been shielded from ganson by them. second, he only blew the whistle in the first place for ablett being offside. third, ignore the wigan players reaction, they were 'protecting a team mate who'd just got clobbered. the wigan fans will have had the best view of the challenge as they will have seen just how high ablett's arms were, tv viewers will have seen it as a shocker because of their viewing angle too. to the leeds fans in the east stand it will have looked ok.

he's not averse to giving out red cards which makes me think if he'd have had a clear view on it he would have. you can't dole out cards based on how loud players and fans shout!

Yep.

[giwildgo]

I think because it was so unorthodox, it was quite difficult to tell if what you thought had happened had actually happened! (probably makes no sense!).

It's not like a swinging arm, which you can read, this was a freak play and it happened so quickly I questioned whether I had seen it right live. The replay confirmed that I had. Without that replay, I would have perhaps questioned what I had seen.

Was very similar to David Howell's malicious challenge on Tomkins last season that resulted in a red card.

[Native New Yorker]

which is the critical point, i had exactly the same view as you and saw pretty much exactly the same thing, the ref was 30 feet(?) lower down with several rather large obstacles potentially blocking his view.

The thing that intrigues me in all of this is the fact that Ganson knew he was offside. Usually all refs will tell an attacker if they are off so they keep the 10. Assuming Ganson did this did a) Ablett not hear him or ignore him and went for the "hit" anyway.

Either way we will just have to wait what the disciplinary makes of it

Edited July 30, 2010 by Native New Yorker

[Dave T]

Steve Ganson has already started

We are all shocked in the pub that gash Ganson has just been very hastily in dispatching Andy Coley for ten minutes.

The bloke needs retiring and fast.

Leeds Rhinos 12-12 Wigan Warriors after 50:00 minutes.

Steve Ganson has very much influenced this result after that shocker.

Leeds Rhinos 12-14 Wigan Warriors after 54:00 minutes.

The penalty count is 8-8 with Leeds committing the last four penalties and still the fool in Gold keeps Leeds at thirteen while Wigan are down to twelve.

Double standards if ever I saw them.

Nice to see you sticking to your promise of not boring us stupid with your crazy obsessive referee views.

[Dave T]

Was very similar to David Howell's malicious challenge on Tomkins last season that resulted in a red card.

It was, but the Howell one was slower IMO and easier to spot.

You won't get me arguing that he should have walked, just trying to add some perspective as to why Ganson didn't send him off, considering Ganson is usually pretty happy to send players off.

Howell got a 3 match ban, so I would expect at least the same for Ablett.

One other thing worthy of a mention. I asked on here earlier this week about what Tomkins defence and ability under a high ball was like, well he answered that in style tonight. Considering the treatment he was getting, he took everything that was thrown at him brilliantly.

[Riversiderontour]

Nice to see you sticking to your promise of not boring us stupid with your crazy obsessive referee views.

he may, at last, have a point.

Was only one team out there trying to play rugby, and very well they did too.

[Dave T]

he may, at last, have a point.

Was only one team out there trying to play rugby, and very well they did too.

Nope. There were right and wrong decisions, just like every other game. Personally I would have had Leeds down to 11 and Wigan would have kept all 13 for the full game, but I don't feel the need to bag the refs time after time.

[sam]

Was very similar to David Howell's malicious challenge on Tomkins last season that resulted in a red card.

how similar was it to tomkins dive, arm first, onto a prone richie myler by the posts..?

[giwildgo]

how similar was it to tomkins dive, arm first, onto a prone richie myler by the posts..?

Didn't see it - the posts obscured my view

[sam]

One other thing worthy of a mention. I asked on here earlier this week about what Tomkins defence and ability under a high ball was like, well he answered that in style tonight. Considering the treatment he was getting, he took everything that was thrown at him brilliantly.

apart from when he did his mathers impression to gift leeds a try!

[Dave T]

apart from when he did his mathers impression to gift leeds a try!

I think most people, apart from the Mathers-haters realise that at times fullbacks will be made to look stupid. Occupational hazard I'm afraid.