At least one Super League club to lose licence in 2011

[Vengeance]

Some Widnes fans being called on here for gloating over Salford, Wakey and Cas's stadium issues, and quite rightly so - it is totally out of order.

FWIW, i have no reason to gloat about that. I KNOW how lucky we are to have SOC, with Halton BC and Stobart's joint venture behind him, and I sympathise with the fans of those three clubs who have such great histories in our game.

What i DO have an issue with though, is the cynical calculated way that the above clubs over the last 3 years have kept trotting out these plans, drawings, sketches, pseudo project documents and throw away promises which were SOLELY designed to fool the RFL and score ticks in the last license process which ultimately cost other clubs a place at the top table.

In fact, you can trace this kind of behaviour all the way back to the RFL's Framing The Future incentive which Widnes (at least of the less rich clubs in the league at the time) were virtually alone in following. The above 3 clubs, and some others, simply ignored the directions from the RFL and spent all their income on players rather than improving facilities in order to try and get an advantage on the field.

For these reason only, I will be glad when the day comes that we replace one or more of them. I look forward to seeing the look on their arrogant chairmen's faces as the truth finally comes home to roost. They did not do their best by their clubs and fans, they cheated the system and they will now pay for it.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Vengeance

[Viking Warrior]

I don't think there are any "financial problems" at Salford. Their hold on a SL licence is tenuous for other reasons, ie. their ground (this is being fixed as we speak) and attendances.

get rid of them anyway...........................just because they are salford.

[Viking Warrior]

I would agree if the licence bid came from The Willows addrress..................but it won't.

As `Father Ted' succinctly put on another thread - the RFL will not have Sale take over the 'Rugby' Franchise in Manchester - Salford have to be in the next 14 or we are handing over the City to the Yawnion boys.

but salford aren't in manchester!!!!

[mick wilson]

Not so funny, well not for Widnes as i didn't see anyone from Widnes playing either

I was in stitches too

[mick wilson]

Erm, im from Batley.

This is getting way to funny LMAO

[Bulletproof]

:lol: I would agree if the licence bid came from The Willows addrress..................but it won't.

As `Father Ted' succinctly put on another thread - the RFL will not have Sale take over the 'Rugby' Franchise in Manchester - Salford have to be in the next 14 or we are handing over the City to the Yawnion boys.

Are you not going to have a go at him for attacking your club in this outrageous fashion?

[Bulletproof]

This is getting way to funny LMAO

What is? Barrow not even being able to submit an application?

[nath155]

its safe to say widnes are in superleague as there the only team that can qualify on the standards in championship club needs but i can not understand why the RFL keep persuasing else where tonites attendence between crusaders and harlequins was 1122 that must be the lowest in superleague this season but there wasnt that much more when castleford visited a few week ago. if im been honest its a joke to the game and wakefield or cas will still lose there licences where if they talked to rugby league fans most must say that a team that sturgles to get 2500 (harlequins) and a team thats averaged 1700 (crusaders) in the last 3 games are going to get a licence is a joke to rugby league

[NEIL FOX IS GOD]

wakey are a symptom of where RL fails in england ie :

1. awful ground, and no real change in this regard

2. poor crowds which show little growth

3. inconsistant on field performance over time

but since they have always done enough to avoid relegation people seem to think its ok.

the failure to improve off the field is why RL in england is a minor sport (partly) ie poor heartland clubs

Wrong again

RL is a minor sport in the UK because FOOTBALL is king it may be the minor sport is Oz but over here it rules

[jannerboyuk]

its safe to say widnes are in superleague as there the only team that can qualify on the standards in championship club needs but i can not understand why the RFL keep persuasing else where tonites attendence between crusaders and harlequins was 1122 that must be the lowest in superleague this season but there wasnt that much more when castleford visited a few week ago. if im been honest its a joke to the game and wakefield or cas will still lose there licences where if they talked to rugby league fans most must say that a team that sturgles to get 2500 (harlequins) and a team thats averaged 1700 (crusaders) in the last 3 games are going to get a licence is a joke to rugby league

Crusaders will get a license so that we can introduce punctuation to the debate. Commas are your friend.

[westlondonfan]

Crusaders will get a license so that we can introduce punctuation to the debate. Commas are your friend.

Very good! By the way does anyone know why the match was played when it was?

[bowes]

Very good! By the way does anyone know why the match was played when it was?

I suspect they were trying to get as low a crowd as possible to give them an excuse to drop the South Wales matches and just play in Wrexham

[westlondonfan]

I suspect they were trying to get as low a crowd as possible to give them an excuse to drop the South Wales matches and just play in Wrexham

Are you being serious?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Are you being serious?

Wouldn't suprise me at all.

[Maximus Decimus]

:lol: I would agree if the licence bid came from The Willows addrress..................but it won't.

As `Father Ted' succinctly put on another thread - the RFL will not have Sale take over the 'Rugby' Franchise in Manchester - Salford have to be in the next 14 or we are handing over the City to the Yawnion boys.

You're probably right about what the RFL will do and why but that doesn't make it right.

Salford are very fortunate, they are easily the worst heartland club to have been a regular fixture since Super League began. However, because of the promise of a new stadium (that they used to get themselves a license in 2008 as well) and because of the failure of Rugby League in places like Oldham and Swinton they look set to be a permanent fixture in Super League.

It's a sure sign that a club has a poor bid when it is using scaremongering tactics. We had it last time with Celtic Crusaders and how Samuels wouldn't wait and we would miss a golden opportunity. Now we are apparently going to lose a whole region to Union if Salford are left out. Nothing to do with the merits of their own bid, just what might happen if they are left out.

When Wakefield, a club that also have an awful stadium yet have improved immeasurably on and off the field, are left out for another club that hasn't but is using the 'potential' card, it will be another sad day for RL. The RFL should judge each club on their individual merits and if Salford's stadium is in anyway delayed, they should be left out and told to reapply in 2015 with the new stadium.

[Maximus Decimus]

Wouldn't suprise me at all.

With a game scheduled at 6pm on a Friday it can be the only reason.

[Segovia Carpet]

get rid of them anyway...........................just because they are salford.

Your namesake is running at Redcar this afternoon. Are you on board?

[Segovia Carpet]

You're probably right about what the RFL will do and why but that doesn't make it right.

Salford are very fortunate, they are easily the worst heartland club to have been a regular fixture since Super League began. However, because of the promise of a new stadium (that they used to get themselves a license in 2008 as well) and because of the failure of Rugby League in places like Oldham and Swinton they look set to be a permanent fixture in Super League.

It's a sure sign that a club has a poor bid when it is using scaremongering tactics. We had it last time with Celtic Crusaders and how Samuels wouldn't wait and we would miss a golden opportunity. Now we are apparently going to lose a whole region to Union if Salford are left out. Nothing to do with the merits of their own bid, just what might happen if they are left out.

When Wakefield, a club that also have an awful stadium yet have improved immeasurably on and off the field, are left out for another club that hasn't but is using the 'potential' card, it will be another sad day for RL. The RFL should judge each club on their individual merits and if Salford's stadium is in anyway delayed, they should be left out and told to reapply in 2015 with the new stadium.

My word you keep banging the same drum don't you?

Salfords current ground is in the heart of one of the poorest areas in England. For years the club has been terrorised by idiots living near the ground resulting in boycotts from fans from other clubs who 'wont go near the place' - yes we are tarred with that brush.

So our Chairman who has never resorted to Administration or Liquidation to clear debts had the foresight to build a new ground many miles away (but still within the City) - yes he was thwarted many times - even John '2 Jags' Prescott held the club by the scruff of its neck for a couple of years - then the Irishman on the Board of RCD became under the microscope from the Inland Revenue resulting in more BIG losses for our esteemed leader plus of course a watering down of the eventual Stadium to be built.

At last the Stadium build has started and in the Autumn the 62 week target commences on a site which can be seen by Millions every day rather than the urchins in Weaste. It is THE future for the club yet you Maximus D & others wish to deny the Chairmans rightful victory in relocating to a far better venue.

I would say that if the ground does not complete in the timescale then there should be a penalty on the club whereby they should play in CC for a season with the club which is demoted to take its place in SL.

Seems a fair option to me to mollify those who believe Salford are pulling a fast one.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I would say that if the ground does not complete in the timescale then there should be a penalty on the club whereby they should play in CC for a season with the club which is demoted to take its place in SL.

Seems a fair option to me to mollify those who believe Salford are pulling a fast one.

No, a fair option would be them having the same treatment as everyone else and having to sit out for the three year license period just like everyone else that fails to get a license.

Why do you think Salford deserve special treatment where they only have to sit out one year? And how is it fair to the club promoted to be demoted again after just one year?

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

The Wakefield Community Stadium Trust have invited all sports clubs in the area to use the new facilities at Newmarket. Trinity will be anchor tennents and hopefully planning will go through in september and funding is already in place for the development. If we're not sorted by 2012 and still play at Belle Vue I don't think there would be many Trinity fans that would complain if we were refused a licence.

[The Parksider]

The Wakefield Community Stadium Trust have invited all sports clubs in the area to use the new facilities at Newmarket. Trinity will be anchor tennents and hopefully planning will go through in september and funding is already in place for the development. If we're not sorted by 2012 and still play at Belle Vue I don't think there would be many Trinity fans that would complain if we were refused a licence.

If the club can prove to the RFL the ground will go through the RFL will be fools to kick Wakefield down to the NL's. This is a city club, with a fantastic history and heritage, that's exclusively RL, and has massive potential people should be able to see, (Unless you just like kicking fellow clubs to promote your own clubs importance).........

[Maximus Decimus]

My word you keep banging the same drum don't you?

As do you.

Salfords current ground is in the heart of one of the poorest areas in England. For years the club has been terrorised by idiots living near the ground resulting in boycotts from fans from other clubs who 'wont go near the place' - yes we are tarred with that brush.

Salford's ground is better than Wakefield's. Wakefield have grown their crowds by almost double, yours have declined if anything.

So our Chairman who has never resorted to Administration or Liquidation to clear debts had the foresight to build a new ground many miles away (but still within the City) - yes he was thwarted many times - even John '2 Jags' Prescott held the club by the scruff of its neck for a couple of years - then the Irishman on the Board of RCD became under the microscope from the Inland Revenue resulting in more BIG losses for our esteemed leader plus of course a watering down of the eventual Stadium to be built.

At last the Stadium build has started and in the Autumn the 62 week target commences on a site which can be seen by Millions every day rather than the urchins in Weaste. It is THE future for the club yet you Maximus D & others wish to deny the Chairmans rightful victory in relocating to a far better venue.

What a nice way to describe many of your current fans.

All the above is absolute nonsense and has nothing to do with whether Salford should be given a license or not. All clubs have issues and excuses and they have to live with them. Wakefield have theirs, Castleford too. You just have to live with it, I don't see how it makes any difference explaining the above.

I certainly don't want Salford to stay where they are and I want them to have a new stadium. They could be good for the game but a new stadium does not mean they will definitely become an overnight success, you have to prove more than that. Wire and Hull had been growing their crowds for some time before they moved in to their new homes. I was present in a record breaking SL crowd for Wire a couple of seasons earlier. In comparison you have no momentum. Their final average was 7,031 and went up to just under 9,889 an increase of 41%. A similar increase for Salford would see them get around 6,300. Even the same meteoric rise that Hull had (67%) would only see you averaging 7,400. Just as a side point, one of the clubs you could take the place of, average more than that playing in their decrepit stadium.

Not conclusive I accept but an indicator of how much else needs to be right rather than just a new stadium.

I would say that if the ground does not complete in the timescale then there should be a penalty on the club whereby they should play in CC for a season with the club which is demoted to take its place in SL.

Seems a fair option to me to mollify those who believe Salford are pulling a fast one.

This is just ludicrous. Salford are nowhere near an important enough club that they would be given special dispensation like this. Even with a new stadium they will do well to get a license in my opinion. I'll accept that if they can guarantee it will be finished for the start of the 2012 season then they will be given a license. If it is not then they should have to wait as they easily have the poorest bid of the other clubs in the mix.

I don't believe for one second that Salford are pulling a fast one. I like John Wilkinson but the facts speak for themselves, the original date for completion of the stadium was 2003 for God's sake. You were largely given a license because of a new stadium that you will not have delivered in that licensing period. I've no doubt that you hope it will be completed in time for 2012 but if it is in anyway delayed, then you should be dropped until you have the new stadium in place. It's the fairest way.

It will then guarantee you a place at the next round of licensing.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Maximus Decimus

[Segovia Carpet]

As do you.

I was merely answering & defending YOUR post about the club -

What a nice way to describe many of your current fans.

You well know I am not referring to the fans - there is never any trouble INSIDE the ground - I am talking about the oiks who dominate the neighbourhood outside the ground. Don't twist things your way to suit your argument.

Wire and Hull had been growing their crowds for some time - not so with Wire - I stood many a time at Wilderspool before they moved and 3,500 was common.

In comparison you have no momentum. - Well I will answer that NEXT season as the Chairman has basically decided to have a crack with some fine signings and I would be surprised if we dont see a 50% rise in 2011.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Segovia Carpet

[thirteenthman]

Salfords current ground is in the heart of one of the poorest areas in England. For years the club has been terrorised by idiots living near the ground resulting in boycotts from fans from other clubs who 'wont go near the place' - yes we are tarred with that brush.

Fans from other clubs won't go near the ground? Not entirely true, but Salford's biggest problem is that people from Salford won't go near the ground.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

With regards to the 2,500 average, currently the clubs are at this... (2009 in brackets)...

Widnes - 3,061 (3,808)

Halifax - 2,255 (2,325)

Leigh - 2,169 (1,984)

F'stone - 1,902 (1,809)

Barrow - 1,760 (2,280)

Toulouse - 1,498 (2,372)

Sheffield - 1,295 (1,174)

Only Widnes qualify at the moment.

The rest will need to get the following attendances in their last game(s) to hit the 2,500 mark...

Halifax - 4,705 (vs Batley, Sun 15th Aug)

Leigh - 5,479 (vs Toulouse, Sat 14th Aug)

F'stone - 7,882 (vs Barrow, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow - 9,160 (vs Widnes, Wed 18th Aug)

Toulouse - 11,518 (vs Halifax, Sat 21st Aug)

Sheffield - 14,640 over two games, or 7,320 each (vs Halifax, tomorrow; and Leigh, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow are stuffed as their ground only holds 7,500 IIRC. Unless they move it to Carlisle last minute and try and get a near 10k crowd!

Featherstone are in the same boat. Only holds just under 7k IIRC.

Toulouse would have to move their game to Stade Ernest Wallon as Stade des Minimes only holds about 4k.

Halifax and Leigh are the only ones that are "doable" really, and they're both a huge long shot!

If either of these clubs are serious with their intent in getting into Super League, they should go all out for this last fixture to get the required crowd. If they fall short, at least it shows the RFL that they are working towards it or that they can pull in the odd big crowd.