At least one Super League club to lose licence in 2011

[jannerboyuk]

With regards to the 2,500 average, currently the clubs are at this... (2009 in brackets)...

Widnes - 3,061 (3,808)

Halifax - 2,255 (2,325)

Leigh - 2,169 (1,984)

F'stone - 1,902 (1,809)

Barrow - 1,760 (2,280)

Toulouse - 1,498 (2,372)

Sheffield - 1,295 (1,174)

Only Widnes qualify at the moment.

The rest will need to get the following attendances in their last game(s) to hit the 2,500 mark...

Halifax - 4,705 (vs Batley, Sun 15th Aug)

Leigh - 5,479 (vs Toulouse, Sat 14th Aug)

F'stone - 7,882 (vs Barrow, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow - 9,160 (vs Widnes, Wed 18th Aug)

Toulouse - 11,518 (vs Halifax, Sat 21st Aug)

Sheffield - 14,640 over two games, or 7,320 each (vs Halifax, tomorrow; and Leigh, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow are stuffed as their ground only holds 7,500 IIRC. Unless they move it to Carlisle last minute and try and get a near 10k crowd!

Featherstone are in the same boat. Only holds just under 7k IIRC.

Toulouse would have to move their game to Stade Ernest Wallon as Stade des Minimes only holds about 4k.

Halifax and Leigh are the only ones that are "doable" really, and they're both a huge long shot!

If either of these clubs are serious with their intent in getting into Super League, they should go all out for this last fixture to get the required crowd. If they fall short, at least it shows the RFL that they are working towards it or that they can pull in the odd big crowd.

How far into the season did the rfl announce this 2500 min?

[ParisSurtout]

With regards to the 2,500 average, currently the clubs are at this... (2009 in brackets)...

Widnes - 3,061 (3,808)

Halifax - 2,255 (2,325)

Leigh - 2,169 (1,984)

F'stone - 1,902 (1,809)

Barrow - 1,760 (2,280)

Toulouse - 1,498 (2,372)

Sheffield - 1,295 (1,174)

Only Widnes qualify at the moment.

The rest will need to get the following attendances in their last game(s) to hit the 2,500 mark...

Halifax - 4,705 (vs Batley, Sun 15th Aug)

Leigh - 5,479 (vs Toulouse, Sat 14th Aug)

F'stone - 7,882 (vs Barrow, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow - 9,160 (vs Widnes, Wed 18th Aug)

Toulouse - 11,518 (vs Halifax, Sat 21st Aug)

Sheffield - 14,640 over two games, or 7,320 each (vs Halifax, tomorrow; and Leigh, Sun 22nd Aug)

Barrow are stuffed as their ground only holds 7,500 IIRC. Unless they move it to Carlisle last minute and try and get a near 10k crowd!

Featherstone are in the same boat. Only holds just under 7k IIRC.

Toulouse would have to move their game to Stade Ernest Wallon as Stade des Minimes only holds about 4k.

Halifax and Leigh are the only ones that are "doable" really, and they're both a huge long shot!

If either of these clubs are serious with their intent in getting into Super League, they should go all out for this last fixture to get the required crowd. If they fall short, at least it shows the RFL that they are working towards it or that they can pull in the odd big crowd.

All of this is irrelevant to Toulouse, whose license candidacy will be based on the "invitation to a foreign club" category.

[Segovia Carpet]

Fans from other clubs won't go near the ground? Not entirely true, but Salford's biggest problem is that people from Salford won't go near the ground.

But they will go to Barton

[Wellsy4HullFC]

But they will go to Barton

With the proof being...?

[ParisSurtout]

With the proof being...?

Common sense Wellsy.

I know that even I will want to go to Barton, and I am not even a Salford supporter.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Common sense Wellsy.

I know that even I will want to go to Barton, and I am not even a Salford supporter.

How is it common sense? What proof is there that good numbers will turn up just because it's in Barton?

[The Parksider]

How is it common sense? What proof is there that good numbers will turn up just because it's in Barton?

Warrington and Hull created new grounds with super facilities and from that achieved very healthy increases in attendances.

I'm suprised at you as you are actually from Hull aren't you?

I'll be delighted to pop across to see Salford at Barton a spit from the motorway (convenient) and a wonderful stadium already being bulit, in fact I was there in June, even when there was no game on.

[Padge]

Warrington and Hull created new grounds with super facilities and from that achieved very healthy increases in attendances.

I'm suprised at you as you are actually from Hull aren't you?

I'll be delighted to pop across to see Salford at Barton a spit from the motorway (convenient) and a wonderful stadium already being bulit, in fact I was there in June, even when there was no game on.

Hull could already atract large crowds similar to now.

Warrington have seen a moderate increase in local support and possibly an increase in away support.

Where modern stadia score is that they tend to be all cover so if it rains you aren't to worried about getting wet.

They tend to have good car parking (Warrington excepted) at the ground, again a bonus in bad weather and a bonus for away supporters.

What makes a new ground work is a bit more complex than shiney new seats, it has to be marketed to the public and you have to make it somewhere people want to come back to regardless of the result of the game they have just seen.

Edit as an after thought.

Encouraging the appreciation of good play from the opposition and applauding their poit scoring feats may foster a better overall experience for supporters.

I was taught to appreciate the opposition, my friends and myself still aplaud opposition play. This causes dismay at times and that p!$$e$ me off no end.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Padge

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Warrington and Hull created new grounds with super facilities and from that achieved very healthy increases in attendances.

I'm suprised at you as you are actually from Hull aren't you?

I'll be delighted to pop across to see Salford at Barton a spit from the motorway (convenient) and a wonderful stadium already being bulit, in fact I was there in June, even when there was no game on.

Yes, both increased their attendances by about 50%. That'll get Salford to about 6,000.

I just don't see how some people think they are going to double or even triple over night. Loads of clubs have had terrible grounds in poor areas in the past, but still managed to pull in much better crowds than Salford. It's not just the ground that is keeping them away.

[Padge]

Yes, both increased their attendances by about 50%. That'll get Salford to about 6,000.

I just don't see how some people think they are going to double or even triple over night. Loads of clubs have had terrible grounds in poor areas in the past, but still managed to pull in much better crowds than Salford. It's not just the ground that is keeping them away.

In some cases its about getting back to where you were, for some its getting a boost. See my post above.

I agree for some, Salford as you mention, they have a mountain to climb. a new stadium can only be a springboard. However it is possible to leap, union has done it, however it needs central suppor, this would never ever be allowed in our sport.

[The Parksider]

Salford as you mention, they have a mountain to climb. a new stadium can only be a springboard.

Yes it is true that they have a mountain to climb to up the attendances.

I know that it's also not just the ground that is keeping them away as Wellsy says.

But I can remember when Salford were one of the best supported clubs.

I know they may have some way to go to ever recapture old glories.

But put it in the correct context. If there were 20 clubs with 10,000 crowds queuing up for Superleague then maybe we can all laugh at Salford???

But here's a club who ARE actually building the ground now, and seem to be boosting their signings for next year and have promised full cap, and do have backers with money.

So why are good RL people being so snipey about Salford???

Wakefield and Salford have the potential to add to the small number of big clubs we have and I for one will remain positive about the pair, wish them all the very best and hope they really go places. The sacrifices made selling up Belle Vue after all these years, and what Wilko has put in deserve full support from the RL fraternity?

[Padge]

Yes it is true that they have a mountain to climb to up the attendances.

I know that it's also not just the ground that is keeping them away as Wellsy says.

But I can remember when Salford were one of the best supported clubs.

I know they may have some way to go to ever recapture old glories.

But put it in the correct context. If there were 20 clubs with 10,000 crowds queuing up for Superleague then maybe we can all laugh at Salford???

But here's a club who ARE actually building the ground now, and seem to be boosting their signings for next year and have promised full cap, and do have backers with money.

So why are good RL people being so snipey about Salford???

Wakefield and Salford have the potential to add to the small number of big clubs we have and I for one will remain positive about the pair, wish them all the very best and hope they really go places. The sacrifices made selling up Belle Vue after all these years, and what Wilko has put in deserve full support from the RL fraternity?

Don't get me wrong, Wakefield will/may have a similar mountain. Castleford less so. Bradford, who knows. Saints won't double crowds in their new stadium, they won't even see a 50% increase, unless they go on a massive marketing campaign, which they won't.

Salford seem to be playing the game, they know they are immune fro now from relegation, concentrate on the stadium. Next year they need to build some momentum, they seem to have now gone into the market fotr players to make them be more competitive. Going from bottom-ish to top eight is seen as a big leep. They then hope to take tha momentum into the new stadium. They ain't wasting their time competing now, its bad business.

Widnes are playing the same game, they went straight for the ticks for a trophy, with that in the bag they have gone straight for youth development which they are doing well at. They haven't bleated about anything as a club, they arer just getting on with what needs to be done.

The smart clubs are playing to the rules and the dumb clubs are whinging.

[Maximus Decimus]

You well know I am not referring to the fans - there is never any trouble INSIDE the ground - I am talking about the oiks who dominate the neighbourhood outside the ground. Don't twist things your way to suit your argument.

You spoke of 'the urchins in Weaste' without differentiating or suggesting that there are any other type of people in Weaste. Maybe you need to be a bit clearer in future.

Wire and Hull had been growing their crowds for some time - not so with Wire - I stood many a time at Wilderspool before they moved and 3,500 was common.

Unfortunately for you when you are dealing with facts, lies can be easily disproven. The Wire didn't get a crowd of 3,500 in their last 5 seasons at Wilderspool. Also if you look at their averages of the last few years you can see the upward trend culminating in their biggest SL average in the year before they moved to the HJ,

1998

[dallymessenger]

Don't get me wrong, Wakefield will/may have a similar mountain. Castleford less so. Bradford, who knows. Saints won't double crowds in their new stadium, they won't even see a 50% increase, unless they go on a massive marketing campaign, which they won't.

Salford seem to be playing the game, they know they are immune fro now from relegation, concentrate on the stadium. Next year they need to build some momentum, they seem to have now gone into the market fotr players to make them be more competitive. Going from bottom-ish to top eight is seen as a big leep. They then hope to take tha momentum into the new stadium. They ain't wasting their time competing now, its bad business.

Widnes are playing the same game, they went straight for the ticks for a trophy, with that in the bag they have gone straight for youth development which they are doing well at. They haven't bleated about anything as a club, they arer just getting on with what needs to be done.

The smart clubs are playing to the rules and the dumb clubs are whinging.

saints will average 15,000 easy in their new stadium

the rest of your post talks a lot of sense

[tonyXIII]

Don't get me wrong, Wakefield will/may have a similar mountain. Castleford less so. Bradford, who knows. Saints won't double crowds in their new stadium, they won't even see a 50% increase, unless they go on a massive marketing campaign, which they won't.

Salford seem to be playing the game, they know they are immune fro now from relegation, concentrate on the stadium. Next year they need to build some momentum, they seem to have now gone into the market fotr players to make them be more competitive. Going from bottom-ish to top eight is seen as a big leep. They then hope to take tha momentum into the new stadium. They ain't wasting their time competing now, its bad business.

Widnes are playing the same game, they went straight for the ticks for a trophy, with that in the bag they have gone straight for youth development which they are doing well at. They haven't bleated about anything as a club, they arer just getting on with what needs to be done.

The smart clubs are playing to the rules and the dumb clubs are whinging.

That sounds remarkably similar to something I posted about 4 pages ago.

You are my alter ego and I claim my

[Padge]

saints will average 15,000 easy in their new stadium

They won't.

[The Parksider]

Don't get me wrong, Wakefield will/may have a similar mountain. Castleford less so. Bradford, who knows. Saints won't double crowds in their new stadium, they won't even see a 50% increase, unless they go on a massive marketing campaign, which they won't.

Salford seem to be playing the game, they know they are immune fro now from relegation, concentrate on the stadium. Next year they need to build some momentum, they seem to have now gone into the market fotr players to make them be more competitive. Going from bottom-ish to top eight is seen as a big leep. They then hope to take tha momentum into the new stadium. They ain't wasting their time competing now, its bad business.

Widnes are playing the same game, they went straight for the ticks for a trophy, with that in the bag they have gone straight for youth development which they are doing well at. They haven't bleated about anything as a club, they arer just getting on with what needs to be done.

The smart clubs are playing to the rules and the dumb clubs are whinging.

Whilst the salford crowd bashing and team bashing seem to be the focus at the moment, the real question as regards Salford lies elsewhere.

I have every respect for a grand old club actually trying to better their team with recent signings and actually start to build the ground - something that conveniently whistles over people's head, with someone actually sugesting the groundworkers are not actually construction workers!

No need to bash the club on either of these points - they are taking action.

The creation of a home grown player structure would seem to be the problem. RL seems to have died off somewhat in Manchester/Salford and the ideal is that in the future like London (if they have a future) can now boast Londoners playing the game, will Salford ever be able to boast a supply of salfordians/mancunians?

I'd like to hear more about their junior development plans and what is the state of schools and junor RL in their area (rather than more attendance bashing).

It would not be too good for the game if we end up with five SL clubs all linked by local roads all spending full cap and competing for too small a pool of juniors.

[dallymessenger]

They won't.

yes they will, you watch

they are at 11,000 now so its not a big increase at all.

[Wilderspoolmemories]

I am going to stick my head on the block and say that the team from SL to take the drop will be........................................................................Castle

ford.

[thirteenthman]

Warrington were mentioned in regards to a club moving to a new ground and having an upturn in attendances. The big advantage Warrington have is that the HJ is as close to the town centre as it could've been. It's an easy ground to reach for local people, especially for those who don't have, or don't wish to use the car. For away fans Central station is 30 seconds down the road.

I'm no expert on the geography of Salford. but whenever the new site at Barton is mentioned, the closeness to the M60 is always spoken about. Is the new ground easily accessible without a car?

[Maximus Decimus]

Warrington were mentioned in regards to a club moving to a new ground and having an upturn in attendances. The big advantage Warrington have is that the HJ is as close to the town centre as it could've been. It's an easy ground to reach for local people, especially for those who don't have, or don't wish to use the car. For away fans Central station is 30 seconds down the road.

I'm no expert on the geography of Salford. but whenever the new site at Barton is mentioned, the closeness to the M60 is always spoken about. Is the new ground easily accessible without a car?

I have some experience of this and it's not particularly easy.

The nearest train station is Urmston, probably a mile and a half from recollection. There are buses from the city centre, not as regular as you'd think and quite expensive.

Hopefully they have the forsight to put extra buses on.

[JohnM]

Warrington were mentioned in regards to a club moving to a new ground and having an upturn in attendances. The big advantage Warrington have is that the HJ is as close to the town centre as it could've been. It's an easy ground to reach for local people, especially for those who don't have, or don't wish to use the car. For away fans Central station is 30 seconds down the road.

I'm no expert on the geography of Salford. but whenever the new site at Barton is mentioned, the closeness to the M60 is always spoken about. Is the new ground easily accessible without a car?

as accessible , I believe as the Trafford Centre, which get crowds even bigger than Leeds. I think the Salford and Warrington cases are different. I think that Salford has fans who were originally within walking distance of the Willows but have moved away owing to housing redevelopment and related issues. I'd expect them to find the new location to be OK.

I also think that a new ground in a more amenable location will attract new spectators from surrounding areas. I suspect also that away fans are more likely to attend games ( Saints, Wigan, Warrington, etc) as the new location is easier to get to and again, more amenable.

[Gregory Peccary]

Site progress.

http://www.buckinghamgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=2612

[hindle xiii]

Site progress.

http://www.buckinghamgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=2612

We work with Buckingham's quite a bit and I've heard people at work mentioning the Salford stadium a few times, if anything more substantial comes to light I will inform.

[Maximus Decimus]

as accessible , I believe as the Trafford Centre, which get crowds even bigger than Leeds. I think the Salford and Warrington cases are different. I think that Salford has fans who were originally within walking distance of the Willows but have moved away owing to housing redevelopment and related issues. I'd expect them to find the new location to be OK.

I also think that a new ground in a more amenable location will attract new spectators from surrounding areas. I suspect also that away fans are more likely to attend games ( Saints, Wigan, Warrington, etc) as the new location is easier to get to and again, more amenable.

For those travelling by car it will be infinitely better. It is doable by public transport but not ideal, before I drove I had to go once and it was quite a trek.

The key is of course going to be fans from Salford and Manchester. They are moving 3/4 miles down the road with will exclude the fans which would usually walk to games. The important thing to note is that a stadium alone is not the answer and Salford need to realise this. They have shown very little else to suggest that they could make the most of it. Wakefield, Cas, Wire and Hull all tried to make the most of their poor surroundings and managed to improve before they moved elsewhere or planned to. Salford haven't.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Maximus Decimus