Lewis Blocked by Kiwis and Australia?

[deluded pom?]

They don't need to be a "force" they just need to be allowed to be the best they can which isn't going to happen while the "Big 3" (just the way they like it) cherry pick their best players.

[Big Picture]

They don't need to be a "force" they just need to be allowed to be the best they can which isn't going to happen while the "Big 3" (just the way they like it) cherry pick their best players.

Given how small and poor they are, how good would they ever be without heritage players who grew up in Australia or NZ?

[deluded pom?]

So do you believe it's OK for players to play for whoever they have tenuous links to regardless of how many times the player switches allegiances? As I said BP, the PI nations especially aren't even being allowed to be the best they can be because of the empire building of others who control the rules. Australia don't NEED Uate or Williams, they have plenty of wingers who are as good if not better than those two. I get the feeling it's a move to prop up NSW rather than the Kangaroos. SoO is becoming one sided so they are doing their utmost to get it back on an even keel. The ARL insist on SoO players being eligible for Australia so they break the RLIF eligibility rules to allow players who have played internationally for another country inside the last twelve months to play SoO. The ARL then get another player to add to their already massed ranks whilst depriving another nation of one of their best players. If you think you can try to justify this then we might as well end the discussion here and now.

Edited September 14, 2010 by deluded pom?

[Big Picture]

So do you believe it's OK for players to play for whoever they have tenuous links to regardless of how many times the player switches allegiances? As I said BP, the PI nations especially aren't even being allowed to be the best they can be because of the empire building of others who control the rules. Australia don't NEED Uate or Williams, they have plenty of wingers who are as good if not better than those two. I get the feeling it's a move to prop up NSW rather than the Kangaroos. SoO is becoming one sided so they are doing their utmost to get it back on an even keel. The ARL insist on SoO players being eligible for Australia so they break the RLIF eligibility rules to allow players who have played internationally for another country inside the last twelve months to play SoO. The ARL then get another player to add to their already massed ranks whilst depriving another nation of one of their best players. If you think can try to justofy this then we might as well end the discussion here and now.

No I don't believe that, I don't like seeing players which allegiance any more than you. I'd like to see them bring in a rule that players who've appeared in the World Cup can't ever switch after that. I can well understand your frustration with the ARL, they seem very self-centered in this. That doesn't change the fact that Williams was born there and naturally wants to play for Australia. However much we might like to see players to stick with Fiji, Tonga or Samoa I don't know how they'll ever get them to.

[deluded pom?]

That doesn't change the fact that Williams was born there and naturally wants to play for Australia. However much we might like to see players to stick with Fiji, Tonga or Samoa I don't know how they'll ever get them to.

Williams played for Tonga only last year so why are the ARL even allowed to consider him? Uate only played for Fiji in 2009 and the only reason he's switching is a financial one. Again, why are the ARL even allowed to consider selecting another nation's player?

[Big Picture]

Williams played for Tonga only last year so why are the ARL even allowed to consider him? Uate only played for Fiji in 2009 and the only reason he's switching is a financial one. Again, why are the ARL even allowed to consider selecting another nation's player?

They shouldn't be able to, there should be clear rules on eligibility and every country should live with them. However if that were the case I doubt either Williams or Uate would have played last year, they'd have waited for a shot at Australia.

[deluded pom?]

They shouldn't be able to, there should be clear rules on eligibility and every country should live with them. However if that were the case I doubt either Williams or Uate would have played last year, they'd have waited for a shot at Australia.

There are already rules in place but Australia are driving a horse and carriage straight through the middle of them.

[Odsal Outlaw]

This highlights once again how ###### the elligibility rules are. Like others on this thread I dont particularly care who a player choses if he meets one of the criteria, but once he picks then thats it, no changing. Its stupid.

However, at least we know Lewis is on the same wave length, which is a step further in the right direction that I thought RL was, Hope he doesnt give up on it!!

[nadera78]

Williams and Uate have been included in the Australian Prime Minister's XIII to play against PNG. This is despite the fact that they are inelligible having played for Tonga and Fiji respectively in the last 12 months.

Ta'ai has told the NZRL he want to continue playing for Tonga. I don't know if the NZRL spoke to Ta'ai before picking him in their preliminary squad, if they didn't then they're idiots. They have also been made to look foolish by chasing Tony Williams who is not only inelligible but has come out and said his first choice is Australia, with Tonga second and NZ presumably nowhere.

This whole thing gets worse by the day. Internatonal RL is made to look foolish by this pathetic, ridiculous scramble to grab players, any players, no matter their eligibility status.

[ParisSurtout]

People don't seem to realise that "the Australians" are in fact nothing more than the ARL CEO Geoff Carr. The man is a card carrying moron. Everyone who has an IQ above room temperature, who has met Carr, wonders why he was allowed to take on any job more demnading than that of official doorman at the NRL. He is also like the clown who used to run the rugby league in Russia, Yevgenii Klebanov, who wanted all the best players in his club, Lokomotiv, and said "###### the competitiion." So the Russian competition was completely buggered.

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Come November the Australian rugby league willl be in the hands of a new commission, and Geoff Carr will no longer have a say in anything. All the junkets to the UK and France that he and his boss Colin Love used to enjoy will be over, along with his massive and disgusting wage bill. Hopefully whoever is the representative of the commission at RLIF meetings will iron out all of these anomalies that have been discussed in this thread, and Richard Lewis will have some influence on the way things are done.

Edited September 15, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[RP London]

Simple the resources go into the youth game which nails down the colours, major investment in the youth game will sort out the international pro game in a decade, why should the likes of Russia not get the chance to compete with the likes of Scotland on a level playing field, its a farce now and all anyone seems to care about is therir own selfish goals including the RFL. Its gonna take a strtegic change and perhaps an initial weakening of some artificial nations in order to strengthen the game internationally in the long run - but I don't think they're brave enough or co-ordinated enough to do it so we'll be having all the same discussions in 10 yrs from now in any case.

but your rule goes against "nationality".. you are stopping people playing for their nation due to a quirk of fate that they started playing the game somewhere else..

having a succesful nation can help grow the domestic game.

[RP London]

Williams and Uate have been included in the Australian Prime Minister's XIII to play against PNG. This is despite the fact that they are inelligible having played for Tonga and Fiji respectively in the last 12 months.

Ta'ai has told the NZRL he want to continue playing for Tonga. I don't know if the NZRL spoke to Ta'ai before picking him in their preliminary squad, if they didn't then they're idiots. They have also been made to look foolish by chasing Tony Williams who is not only inelligible but has come out and said his first choice is Australia, with Tonga second and NZ presumably nowhere.

This whole thing gets worse by the day. Internatonal RL is made to look foolish by this pathetic, ridiculous scramble to grab players, any players, no matter their eligibility status.

is the prime ministers XIII not just an honoury XIII ala the barbarians in Union rather than being an Australian Rep Side?

[roughyedspud]

nope...all players in the PMXIII team are eligible for the up coming 4nations australia team..... apparently..

which is a load of complete and utter #### cos Uate & Williams played for fiji & tonga respectively last year in the pacific cup...which renders them ineligible for selection for another nation under RLIF rules...the ARL and NZRL, who also selected williams, know this.......yet they ride roughshod over the very ******** rules they 'helped' create...

its a disgrace

[RP London]

nope...all players in the PMXIII team are eligible for the up coming 4nations australia team..... apparently..

which is a load of complete and utter #### cos Uate & Williams played for fiji & tonga respectively last year in the pacific cup...which renders them ineligible for selection for another nation under RLIF rules...the ARL and NZRL, who also selected williams, know this.......yet they ride roughshod over the very ******** rules they 'helped' create...

its a disgrace

what i mean is though that the PMXIII is not about eligablitiy.. you dont HAVE to be eligable for aus to play for the PMXIII do you? and if you play it doesnt amke you ineligable for other teams.

What then the papers are saying (i assume it is the papers saying theya re eligable hence your "apparently" remark) is a different matter.. them and truth dont always go together.

[roughyedspud]

http://leagueunlimited.com/article.php?newsid=20015

2010 ARL Prime Minister's XIII (in alphabetical order)

Player - Club

Matthew Bowen - North Queensland Cowboys

Luke Douglas - Cronulla Sharks

Michael Ennis - Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

Blake Ferguson - Cronulla Sharks

Matt Gillett - Brisbane Broncos

Jason King - Manly Sea Eagles

Micheal Luck - Warriors

James Maloney - Warriors

Tim Mannah - Parramatta Eels

Jarrod Mullen - Newcastle Knights

Corey Parker - Brisbane Broncos ©

Chris Sandow - South Sydney Rabbitohs

Ben Smith - Parramatta Eels

Kade Snowden - Cronulla Sharks

David Taylor - South Sydney Rabbitohs

Willie Tonga - North Queensland Cowboys

Akuila Uate - Newcastle Knights

Tony Williams - Manly Sea Eagles

Please note: the above players are eligible for selection in the VB Kangaroos squad for the 2010 Four Nations tournament.

The Prime Minister's XIII will gather at Redfern Oval at 10am tomorrow, Wednesday September 15, for medicals and a team briefing before travelling to Cairns on Thursday, September 23, then on to Port Moresby on Friday, September 24.

i put 'apparently' because i was originally under the impression that the PMXII team bare no relavance to international eligibilty..what with it being a invitational team and all that

[nadera78]

what i mean is though that the PMXIII is not about eligablitiy.. you dont HAVE to be eligable for aus to play for the PMXIII do you? and if you play it doesnt amke you ineligable for other teams.

What then the papers are saying (i assume it is the papers saying theya re eligable hence your "apparently" remark) is a different matter.. them and truth dont always go together.

The ARL press release naming the PM XIII squad stated quite clearly that all of the players picked were eligible for Australia in the Four Nations. Which is a blatant lie.

[roughyedspud]

whats the saying??

theres lies,damn lies and statistics......

and tony williams stats for tonga in last years pacific cup must have been a big effing lie

[boxhead]

The International ruling body should bring in a rule that you play for the country of your birth or the Country a player nominates when he is graded, no changes allowed.

That will rule out plenty of the Aussies in the Kiwi Test teams and leave the Pacific Islands to develop their own.

It will also hit Australia hard where they will feel the full brunt of poaching overseas players where they have played at least 6 or 8 players that may have immigrated to Oz but were not born there in the last 20 years or so.

Everyone wins and the farce of representing "Heritage" teams will be done with by the 2013 World Cup.

Edited September 15, 2010 by AndyCapp

[deluded pom?]

The ARL press release naming the PM XIII squad stated quite clearly that all of the players picked were eligible for Australia in the Four Nations. Which is a blatant lie.

It's only a matter of time before anyone who plays in the NRL will have to swear allegiance to Australia.

[RP London]

The ARL press release naming the PM XIII squad stated quite clearly that all of the players picked were eligible for Australia in the Four Nations. Which is a blatant lie.

fair enough if the aussies are releasing that in a press release they need friggins shooting becuase its not right on so many levels.

as an aside can anyone answer the other question about whether it is classified as representing aus so stopping you representing anyone else and do you HAVE to qualify to play for aus to play in the pmXIII in general?

[deluded pom?]

I'd be interested to know this too. Shouldn't the PM's X111 simply be a rep side of the NRL as a whole rather than Australian players in the NRL?

[boxhead]

I'd be interested to know this too. Shouldn't the PM's X111 simply be a rep side of the NRL as a whole rather than Australian players in the NRL?

Why?

Its an Oz PM's Australian select side. Why would they pick none Australians?

The PM's side is selected from players either up and coming to showcase their talents or well deserved acknowledgement for players like Corey Parker who will most likely not win a Test Cap.

The ARL's media release says all the players selected are eligible for Oz in the four Nations.

Will they be selected? usually Origin players make up the Test squad.

Edited September 15, 2010 by AndyCapp

[boxhead]

So they do the hard yards and produce players who are signed up by NRL teams. They flourish in a fully professional environment and lo and behold they are lured away from their country of birth and upbringing to play SoO and having to commit to playing for Australia. Akuila Uate ring any bells? It's catch 22 for the PI nations especially. Don't produce any domestic players and cop hidings or produce them and watch as Australia and NZ cherry pick the best and weakening the team resulting in some more hidings.

What level was Uate developed to in Fiji? other than being a fast athlete?

Which Fijian team did he play for?

Was he plucked from the Fijian national League?

[RP London]

Why?

Its an Oz PM's Australian select side. Why would they pick none Australians?

The PM's side is selected from players either up and coming to showcase their talents or well deserved acknowledgement for players like Corey Parker who will most likely not win a Test Cap.

The ARL's media release says all the players selected are eligible for Oz in the four Nations.

Will they be selected? usually Origin players make up the Test squad.

surely if its a select side they could select who ever they please doesnt matter where they are from...

but they arent all eligible for oz thats the issue surely

[Futtocks]

They shouldn't be able to, there should be clear rules on eligibility and every country should live with them. However if that were the case I doubt either Williams or Uate would have played last year, they'd have waited for a shot at Australia.

And there lies the problem. If you enforce a rule that you can only play for one nation (which would be ideal for the code's credibility), too many players would put their hand up for Aus or NZ, as the more likely teams to win trophies and glory. The Pacific Islands would be weakened - left with a loyal core, plus players who don't see themselves ever making the Kangaroo or Kiwi squad.

Somehow, there needs to be a 'critical mass' of players willing to represent - for example - Tonga, so they can become a genuine force in the game, with a chance of competing with the Big Two of the Southern hemisphere. That team's example could get players on board for other nations in the same situation.

Hard to see how it can be done, though.