Keiron Cunningham

[Wendall]

Okay it was the NW Tonight programme but it was the main sports news story in terms of coverage with a good interview from the guy, who I have a lot of time for as a person and even more since he didn't follow the mercenaries from over Billinge lump and take the union shilling!

It a shame the national media don't promote a guy like this in their sports programmes and publications, he is a true hero of sport.

[JohnM]

he didn't follow the mercenaries from over Billinge lump and take the union shilling!

scared or not good enough, see?

Edited September 24, 2010 by JohnM

[Wendall]

scared or not good enough, see?

Try aincient and loyal! Something not many Wigan lads can preach from the mid nineties......

[JohnM]

Back on track: Cunningham is a credit to his club, his game (and his pie shop )

Off track again: and he is certainly not a glory hunting fair weather fan attracted by the sheer glamour of a new stadium.

[Wendall]

Back on track: Cunningham is a credit to his club, his game (and his pie shop )

Off track again: and he is certainly not a glory hunting fair weather fan attracted by the sheer glamour of a new stadium.

Hardly! I have been going since the mid eighties mate, when the inter city postmen were in full force!

[JohnM]

if the cap fits, etc.

My first Wigan game? 1957.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Didn't the WRU organise a press conference for him? Why would they do that?

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

if the cap fits, etc.

My first Wigan game? 1957.

Must have been playing Swinton at a guess..

[EastLondonMike]

also have a lot of time for him.. always speaks well and comes across as a real genuine and down to earth guy. A modern day British RL legend.

Edited September 24, 2010 by EastLondonMike

[3owls]

The best quarterback to ever play rugby league. Has he ever passed a ball backwards?

[saintfrank]

The best quarterback to ever play rugby league. Has he ever passed a ball backwards?

course he has, now McGuire on the other hand

[3owls]

course he has, now McGuire on the other hand

Finish your ovaltine and take your teeth out granddad, it's time for bed.

Well done tonight, you're a good lad despite coming from the wrong side of the pennines.

[saintfrank]

Finish your ovaltine and take your teeth out granddad, it's time for bed.

Well done tonight, you're a good lad despite coming from the wrong side of the pennines.

course i am, and it is bedtime as you state......need the energy to watch who we may play next week at our second home..should have borrowed that instead of widnes

[saintfrank]

Finish your ovaltine and take your teeth out granddad, it's time for bed.

Well done tonight, you're a good lad despite coming from the wrong side of the pennines.

oh and thanks, was a bit nervy though when hudds crept ahead

[Exiled Wiganer]

After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great.

He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game...

Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country).

Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)?

If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up.

A Local Hero but not a British great?

Edited September 25, 2010 by Exiled Wiganer

[saintfrank]

After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great.

He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game...

Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country).

Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)?

If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up.

A Local Hero but not a British great?

wouldnt exspect any other reply from SOME pies, join the list

[saintfrank]

Huddersfield coach Nathan Brown said:

"They say everybody is replaceable but I'm not so sure Keiron Cunningham is replaceable. He's an outstanding player.

"The word great gets thrown about a bit loosely but, if he hadn't played tonight, I dare say the scoreboard would have read a bit more in Huddersfield's favour. The game flowed their way when he was on the field.

"Inside that 10 metres, Saints are probably as good as any side in the world

[saintfrank]

Hardly! I have been going since the mid eighties mate, when the inter city postmen were in full force!

ive been going, since we went on bikes......................penny farthings as well

but i aint going to Widnes on it

Edited September 25, 2010 by saintfrank

[Exiled Wiganer]

I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player?

If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things.

To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?

[1976PMJwires]

KC is a true RL great and Saints Legend.

a one club man, unlike scofield, hanley or farrell

any other comments are their opinion, But KC is a Giant of the Game.

I'm glad he's retiring but he'll be missed by all.

Hope he gets a job with Sky, after seeing him carney, he is a well spoken young man and would be good for the game.... maybe he can pole axe clarke one day

Edited September 25, 2010 by 1976PMJwires

[1976PMJwires]

I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player?

If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things.

To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?

Great question EW

Morley must be the GREAT won everything in the club game (maybe not the WCC) in the ESL and NRL

KC is 100% still a Legend of RL

[Simon Templar]

I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player?

If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things.

To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?

I struggle to take most of your posts seriously. To me your becoming more like an "Exiled Wendaller".

The only blemish on KC's character was the drugs issue several years ago. Now correct me if I'm wrong but dont RL players have to avail themselves for testing after every game. If KC is still benefitting from some drug enhancing substance that he was given years ago then it must have been pretty strong stuff, whilst still invisible to modern test methods. Sean Long who also "benefitted" from the same substance (As he admitted in his book) doesnt seem to benefit in the same way KC "does".

Andy Farrell a great international player !!

[shrek]

I'll be glad to see the bloody back of him, which is about as big a compliment a Wigan lad can give him.

I have a sneeky suspicion he may do a Radlinksi and reappear in the future, just enough times to creep over the 500 game milestone, which if memory serves he'll be 4 short of after the Grand Final.

A credit to the game in his long and glittering career todate, shame it never quite happened on the international stage, but hope we manage to retain his services within the sport for some time to come.

[bewareshadows]

After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great.

He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game...

Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country).

Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)?

If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up.

A Local Hero but not a British great?

So I take it that you also believe the same of Tiger Woods. They greatest golfer to grace the planet in most professionals minds. However if we use your measure of a man, has played poorly in USA teams in every rider cup. So just an good golf from the USA, not the best ever.

You mention Cunningham's International career, but it's quite well known that for the last 5 years, he has been retired from international Rugby. And prior to that he always seamed to be injured for the international season. During that time Terry Newton played hooker for GB more than Cunningham did, however during the actual domestic season Newton would be 2nd or even 3rd behind the likes of Jimmy Lowes. However Jimmy lowes face just did not fit with the GB coaching set up.

I don't recall Farrell or Hanley or Scofield or sculthorpe actually winning anything internationally. The GB side has been on a 40 year losing streak, but just because the GB side is poor does not mean all of the above can be discounted as legends. If it's the attention from SKY that you're decrying, well that's fair enough, Sculthorpe did not get this, but his career was cut unexpectedly short. Farrell did not retire but moved on and was also out with injury for his last year (but we still got to see his bashed up nose on reruns). Sky where not into the hype as much at the time of hanley and Scofield was gone long before that.

The same could have been said for cunningham if he had actually had a broken jaw from the crusaders game. If his career ended short in that game there would have been none of the adulation that he has been given.

I would not expect the same for Morley, but I'm sure when briers calls it a day he too will be given the credit he deserves he also has carried the warrington team for the last 10 years until the rest of the stars came when the money arrived.

Briers is another who face did not fit with the GB coaching team set up, but that does not deny the quality of the man just because he's not the insitutions cover boy.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think KC is the finest 9 I have ever seen - indeed, I started a thread praising him when it looked like injury may prevent him from playing again a few weeks ago.

I suppose I am simply suggesting that in measuring a player's achievements the international (and Aussie domestic) side is worth weighing up.

It will be interesting to see whether Briers and Morley get the same accolade. As a game, we have been poor at giving our players the send off they deserve, and if it becomes a trend to highlight the achievements of our greats as they step down then I think that would be a wonderful. I cannot remember Hanley getting much fuss when he retired and he was a man picked in the Team of the Century for 4 different clubs, as well as performing brilliantly for GB. The finest player I have ever seen that's for sure.

If one team loyalty is a defining feature then someone like Alker, another hooker, deserves massive credit. Insofar as positive coverage of an RL player extends beyond the game, that is a very good thing.

I don't follow the Tiger Woods analogy as he clearly competes as an individual against all the other world greats most weeks. I suppose if he won everything else, but skipped the Majors that might be similar?