Martyn Sadler - Talking Rugby League

[thirteenthman]

 l

It used to be a double header with the st div/SL final so the viewing figures would have been quite decent. How many of London s home games do Sky show. If it s more than one or two I ll be amazed and theyt are always on a Saturday with the lowesr viewing figures of the Sky coverage.

 

The viewing figures would probably have been very low. 2nd tier games on Sky always used to get much smaller audiences, and at the time of the 1994 final, Sky's subscriber base was well over half what it is now, so audiences all round would have been a lot smaller.

[Padge]

 l

It used to be a double header with the st div/SL final so the viewing figures would have been quite decent. How many of London s home games do Sky show. If it s more than one or two I ll be amazed and theyt are always on a Saturday with the lowesr viewing figures of the Sky coverage.

You really think the same number watched game 1 as game 2. Your becoming a serial fantasist.

 

I see your back tracking on the second point rather quickly.

[nadera78]

Found this article from just prior to that Old Trafford final:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-league-london-lose-their-innocence-on-their-last-crusade-dave-hadfield-on-the-metamorphosis-taking-place-after-tomorrows-second-division-premiership-final-1437378.html

 

Interesting to read the quotes about talk of the Broncos 'investing heavily in top British players', something the club has always struggled to do, and the 'fanciful' talk of playing at Wembley within 5 years. But the article does confirm that the club were as close as they ever got to going out of business.

Brisbane talked a good game but they had no idea what sort of challenges they wold face in London. When I say the game was invisible, I genuinely mean it. It was impossible to find out anything about the club. I've lived here all my life and I was watching RL on BSB and then Sky for around two years before I found out there was a team in London, and even then I only discovered them because one of my teachers was playing for them on an amateur basis.

 

I'm absolutely certain in my mind that if the club drops down into the second tier again then they will suffer the same fate. There's so much going on in London, and there are so many sports/events ingrained into the culture that for anything 'new' or 'different' to stand out it simply has to be conducted at the top level. Anything else will simply be ignored by the media, and if they decide to dismiss you like that then how will anyone know you exist? A club in the second tier that can barely afford to run a team is going to spend significantly on publicity? Of course not. Out of sight, out of mind.

[thirteenthman]

Brisbane talked a good game but they had no idea what sort of challenges they wold face in London. When I say the game was invisible, I genuinely mean it. It was impossible to find out anything about the club. I've lived here all my life and I was watching RL on BSB and then Sky for around two years before I found out there was a team in London, and even then I only discovered them because one of my teachers was playing for them on an amateur basis.

 

I'm absolutely certain in my mind that if the club drops down into the second tier again then they will suffer the same fate. There's so much going on in London, and there are so many sports/events ingrained into the culture that for anything 'new' or 'different' to stand out it simply has to be conducted at the top level. Anything else will simply be ignored by the media, and if they decide to dismiss you like that then how will anyone know you exist? A club in the second tier that can barely afford to run a team is going to spend significantly on publicity? Of course not. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Yeah, I think the Brisbane directors would probably admit that they completely underestimated the size of the task in London. Seem to recall reading somewhere that that they simply wanted to run a club here as a way of producing players for the team in Brisbane. There was a touch of arrogance in the direction they were taking around that time, which of course ultimately led to the whole SL war down under.

 

Completely agree with your comments on London dropping out of the top tier. I guess we'll find out soon enough how much importance the game as a whole puts on having a top tier presence in the capital.

[DeadShotKeen]

is that the same glass ceiling hull kr have hit?

Yes and why I've bailed on Hull KR.

If Super League just wants to shuffle around teams with glass ceilings then it is writing its own suicide note.

[keighley]

Brisbane talked a good game but they had no idea what sort of challenges they wold face in London. When I say the game was invisible, I genuinely mean it. It was impossible to find out anything about the club. I've lived here all my life and I was watching RL on BSB and then Sky for around two years before I found out there was a team in London, and even then I only discovered them because one of my teachers was playing for them on an amateur basis.

 

I'm absolutely certain in my mind that if the club drops down into the second tier again then they will suffer the same fate. There's so much going on in London, and there are so many sports/events ingrained into the culture that for anything 'new' or 'different' to stand out it simply has to be conducted at the top level. Anything else will simply be ignored by the media, and if they decide to dismiss you like that then how will anyone know you exist? A club in the second tier that can barely afford to run a team is going to spend significantly on publicity? Of course not. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Well, the remedy is for them not to get relegated then. However, looking at their current stellar SL incarnation, I don't think they are more than a blip on the radar of sport in London now and are ignored by the media. They will get more press if they fold or are relegated than they curently do holding down a perrenial bottom four spot in SL.

 

For instance, havn't Hemel had some decent media coverage stemming from their elevation to CC1 whereas the Broncos have had what national coverage from their SL season.

[The Parksider]

For instance, havn't Hemel had some decent media coverage stemming from their elevation to CC1 whereas the Broncos have had what national coverage from their SL season.

Yes Hemel are the future of Rugby League in the south east.

[keighley]

You really think the same number watched game 1 as game 2. Your becoming a serial fantasist.

 

I see your back tracking on the second point rather quickly.

 

 No, i never said that. However they got national exposure and i'll bet more watched them that day than watched their last televised home SL game.

[keighley]

Found this article from just prior to that Old Trafford final:-

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-league-london-lose-their-innocence-on-their-last-crusade-dave-hadfield-on-the-metamorphosis-taking-place-after-tomorrows-second-division-premiership-final-1437378.html

 

Interesting to read the quotes about talk of the Broncos 'investing heavily in top British players', something the club has always struggled to do, and the 'fanciful' talk of playing at Wembley within 5 years. But the article does confirm that the club were as close as they ever got to going out of business.

 

 Interesting. I'll bet they have never had this kind of press coverage for this  season's SL games.

[Larry the Leit]

For instance, havn't Hemel had some decent media coverage stemming from their elevation to CC1 whereas the Broncos have had what national coverage from their SL season.

 

It's not translated into gates as yet though, and that's their real challenge over the next five years.  I'm not sure what targets they've set themselves, but if they can get to regularly around 500 in the next couple of years then it'll be very encouraging.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Larry the Leit

[keighley]

Yes Hemel are the future of Rugby League in the south east.

 

You just have a vituperative hatred for ambitious underdogs. Any hint of ambtion or progress from a small team sets you off like a rabid dog.

 

Long term, if Hemel continue to upgrade their ground (at least they have one viz a viz the Broncos who shortly will not ) and if they continue to churn out players from their local area and if they get into the Championship via p and r then they will be at the same level as the Broncos when they get relegated.

 

Let the chips fall and we will see which direction each of these teams takes. Your sarcastic last sentence might come back to haunt you 15 years from now.

[The Parksider]

Long term, if Hemel.....

and if they continue to churn out players.....

and if they get into the Championship....

Two more if's and you have the SL champions.

[keighley]

It's not translated into gates as yet though, and that's their real challenge over the next five years.  I'm not sure what targets they've set themselves, but if they can get to regularly around 500 in the next couple of years then it'll be very encouraging.

 

 Oh, i agree with you they are at the very start of their odyssey as a pro/semi pro RL club. I don't know the scope of their ambitions either, but the fact that they are here at all is a positive for the game. There ceratinly seems to be a more positive vibe coming from this club than from the Broncos.

[keighley]

Two more if's and you have the SL champions.

 

 here's some more the.

 

If Broncos get relegated ( than should probably be a "when")

 

If Hughes's financial support disappears for whatever reason and there are a couple of scenarios

 

If they don't improve their crowds

 

A couple more and they will be in CC1 playing Gloucester for the wooden spoon.

[thirteenthman]

For instance, havn't Hemel had some decent media coverage stemming from their elevation to CC1 whereas the Broncos have had what national coverage from their SL season.

 

That depends on what you call 'decent media coverage'. Is that coverage in national papers, or as I strongly suspect, is it limited to RL trade publications and local media in Hemel? And wouldn't a SL team in Hemel generate even more coverage?

[Jeff Stein]

That depends on what you call 'decent media coverage'. Is that coverage in national papers, or as I strongly suspect, is it limited to RL trade publications and local media in Hemel? And wouldn't a SL team in Hemel generate even more coverage?

 

From what I have been told by friends living in Hemel, their profile isn't particularly high even in the town.

[The Parksider]

For instance, havn't Hemel had some decent media coverage stemming from their elevation to CC1 whereas the Broncos have had what national coverage from their SL season.

Mr. Stein has a first hand answer for you above. Care to reply? Edited June 7, 2013 by The Parksider

[keighley]

Mr. Stein has a first hand answer for you above. Care to reply?

 

Hemel have had two articles on them in the national press in the Independent in Feb 2012 and in the Guardian on mar 2, 2013. This is for a team that was not a member of CC1 even until the beginning of this season. They have also had mentions on  the BBC sport website and have had local articles re the re development of their Pennine way ground.

 

The Broncos, despite being a current and past SL club, have had very little press coverage. I can find an article in 2012 in the  Mirror in regards to Gower joining them and a BBC website mention re their playing at the Stoop. they also have had two match reports in the Guardian this year, one the extremely positive fact that they managed to lose to wigan 64 to 6. good press that one.

 

This was a brief google search by me and there may be other reports for both teams so don't treat it as the gold standard on the subject.

[The Parksider]

Hemel have had two articles on them in the national press

But that's no reason to get the idea that they will take over from the Broncos soon.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

David Hughes has only guaranteed to finance the Bronco up until 2014, when the current licencing period ends. There's been talk that he intends to retire around then so won't have the money to continue.

[thirteenthman]

David Hughes has only guaranteed to finance the Bronco up until 2014, when the current licencing period ends. There's been talk that he intends to retire around then so won't have the money to continue.

 

With the lack of contract extensions, and players talking to other clubs, I wonder if there are doubts about him financing the club in 2014?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

With the lack of contract extensions, and players talking to other clubs, I wonder if there are doubts about him financing the club in 2014?

You're not the only one to be pondering that, and I suspect that there will be a few more after today's catastrophe. Not so sure myself, as I think he's the sort of person who'd keep his word. If we went it would cause organisational problems for the RFL. Do they just go with 13 clubs in SL next season or bring in  (say) Fev or Toulouse who'd probably want a guarantee of a licence in 2014 if they did make the step up.

[thirteenthman]

You're not the only one to be pondering that, and I suspect that there will be a few more after today's catastrophe. Not so sure myself, as I think he's the sort of person who'd keep his word. If we went it would cause organisational problems for the RFL. Do they just go with 13 clubs in SL next season or bring in  (say) Fev or Toulouse who'd probably want a guarantee of a licence in 2014 if they did make the step up.

 

Perhaps the players know something we don't. You'd like to think that London would be here next year, but I guess Hughes has to look after his own interests - god knows the guy has pumped enough of his own money into the club already for very little reward. I know you Bronco fans are used to uncertainty surrounding the club - it's almost an annual thing going back to the Fulham days - but it must be pretty demoralising, especially with defeats like the one today.

 

If worst came to the worst and London went out, I guess it would depend on the timescale involved as to bringing someone else in for next year. If it was announced at the end of the season, it wouldn't leave much time for new clubs to recruit. And then you have the question of who comes up and how their chosen. Not convinced Toulouse would be ready for next year.

[Ponterover]

You're not the only one to be pondering that, and I suspect that there will be a few more after today's catastrophe. Not so sure myself, as I think he's the sort of person who'd keep his word. If we went it would cause organisational problems for the RFL. Do they just go with 13 clubs in SL next season or bring in  (say) Fev or Toulouse who'd probably want a guarantee of a licence in 2014 if they did make the step up.

 

There won't be licensing after next season, given that the bottom two in next year's SL will be relegated*, I can't see either club wanting to step up at short notice.  Certainly Fev are building towards at competitive, full time team for the 2015 season.

 

 

*be that for the 2x12 and 3x8 or 2x12 with 1 up, 1 down.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Ponterover

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

To wrench this bodily back to the subject of reorganisation here's something from today's Crusaders' programme to throw into the mix:

'I (Jamie Thomas, club CEO) think the telling point is that the RFL have discussed things with their broadcast partner, who favour option 3 (my italics) - and whilst they are adamant they are not a slave to Sky, it is difficult to see them going against the organisation who write the biggest cheque to the Sport each year............. If the structure ends up as some version of Option 3, which is my personal belief it will given all the noises coming from different areas....' He then goes on to discuss the impact it would have on the Crusaders.

We shall see.