Martyn Sadler - Talking Rugby League

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Thanks for that CC

You say the only way forward is the championship. What do you mean by forward? A sustainable championship club? Back to SL? I'm not sure what you mean.

I meant a sustainable Championship club, which could probably field a respectable team of local players that are coming up through the development schemes. As things stand at present, even if there is a future for SL in the capital, it's going to take a while for memories of what is now (in my opinion, I stress) the terminally tainted brand that's the Broncos to fade. As far as the Stoop's concerned, I think too much can be made of the move there. In spite of what some people think we weren't that successful at Griffin Park, and perhaps with a decent marketing campaign and a successful side on the pitch things might have worked out better, but we'll never know now.

[The Daddy]

It is always amazing when this happens and it happens many times,this morning i was on the phone to a major whisky company who have just done a deal with us to sponsor russian soccer and the girl there was from OZ and a mad sharks fan i spent 1 minute on the phone sorting out the deal:) and 30 mins talking about SOO and the NRL:)))))

CM

 

LMFAO!! You're incredible. 

 

Are you Roman Abramovich or what?

[oldrover]

Nothing happened

Apart from your club getting lots of publicity on prime time national radio which kind of puts your whinge into perspective . I'm given to understand that your club featured regularly on SKY's coverage of championship rugby league

we also cast our net out as far as the wolds. i'm given to understand we were so snowed  under with season ticket applications we are still sorting through em. thinking outside the box eh.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

we also cast our net out as far as the wolds. i'm given to understand we were so snowed under with season ticket applications we are still sorting through em. thinking outside the box eh.

Getting moyles involved was a master stroke: well done howard

As expected you missed the point.

Nothing happened, because nothing is supposed to happen directly: raising awareness is multifaceted does not have an immediate effect and can have different brnefits

If you added another dimension to your thinking it you would reach the staggering total of one.

Edited May 29, 2013 by l'angelo mysterioso

[oldrover]

Getting moyles involved was a master stroke: well done howard

As expected you missed the point.

Nothing happened, because nothing is supposed to happen directly: raising awareness is multifaceted does not have an immediate effect and can have different brnefits

If you added another dimension to your thinking it you would reach the staggering total of one.

how long do we have to wait? i'm getting quite old now.. come to think of it, i don't have time waste on you, carry on.

[Padge]

Getting moyles involved was a master stroke: well done howard

As expected you missed the point.

Nothing happened, because nothing is supposed to happen directly: raising awareness is multifaceted does not have an immediate effect and can have different brnefits

 

This is what people get confused about, marketing and selling. They are quite different, marketing can be about brand awareness and it can be about intelligence gathering.

 

A sales campaign is what you can do with what you have learned from your marketing.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

This is what people get confused about, marketing and selling. They are quite different, marketing can be about brand awareness and it can be about intelligence gathering.

 

A sales campaign is what you can do with what you have learned from your marketing.

that's right, and also image developing.

 

why the previous poster should pick on a small, but useful and interesting aspect of Rovers' media operation between 2009 and 2013 escapes me, but never mind.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

how long do we have to wait? i'm getting quite old now.. come to think of it, i don't have time waste on you, carry on.

dunno

probably for as long as it takes you to have a clue about just about anything, or even more unlikely: to say something remotely funny.

 

If I thought you could be remotely grown up about it ,I would be happy to discuss Rovers media operation between 2009-2013, with you, but alas...

Edited May 29, 2013 by l'angelo mysterioso

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I meant a sustainable Championship club, which could probably field a respectable team of local players that are coming up through the development schemes. As things stand at present, even if there is a future for SL in the capital, it's going to take a while for memories of what is now (in my opinion, I stress) the terminally tainted brand that's the Broncos to fade. As far as the Stoop's concerned, I think too much can be made of the move there. In spite of what some people think we weren't that successful at Griffin Park, and perhaps with a decent marketing campaign and a successful side on the pitch things might have worked out better, but we'll never know now.

 

 

I meant a sustainable Championship club, which could probably field a respectable team of local players that are coming up through the development schemes. As things stand at present, even if there is a future for SL in the capital, it's going to take a while for memories of what is now (in my opinion, I stress) the terminally tainted brand that's the Broncos to fade. As far as the Stoop's concerned, I think too much can be made of the move there. In spite of what some people think we weren't that successful at Griffin Park, and perhaps with a decent marketing campaign and a successful side on the pitch things might have worked out better, but we'll never know now.

thanks for your views on the Stoop. My thoughts were based on the large amount of negative feedback to the move that has appeared from here.

 

If what you would like to see happen comes to pass, what will be the impact on the game's national profile, and what would be the effect of the now large grass roots structure of the game in the South East/Thames estuary? There does seem to be a stream of talent gradually developing from that area.

[Padge]

that's right, and also image developing.

 

why the previous poster should pick on a small, but useful and interesting aspect of Rovers' media operation between 2009 and 2013 escapes me, but never mind.

 

Image development is of course what you need before you can do brand awareness.

[Dave T]

This is what people get confused about, marketing and selling. They are quite different, marketing can be about brand awareness and it can be about intelligence gathering.

 

A sales campaign is what you can do with what you have learned from your marketing.

Of course there are different forms of marketing, but a lot of marketing is to directly get sales.

 

I agree that people often look at it too simplistically as some campaigns will absolutely be about awareness - ultimately to get sales and grow market share though.

 

I am an Acquisition Commercial Manager, and our marketing budget is our 'sales' budget.

[Padge]

Of course there are different forms of marketing, but a lot of marketing is to directly get sales.

 

I agree that people often look at it too simplistically as some campaigns will absolutely be about awareness - ultimately to get sales and grow market share though.

 

I am an Acquisition Commercial Manager, and our marketing budget is our 'sales' budget.

I used to work in sales, and marketing and sales were always two very distinct areas, though both tended to come under one director.

 

The functions are quite separate with separate goals but the same aim.

 

The modern tendency towards 'lean' operations has blurred the lines between a lot of areas in business and Sales and Marketing is one. They may be seen as one operationally but functionally they are quite different.

 

 

.

[Dave T]

I used to work in sales, and marketing and sales were always two very distinct areas, though both tended to come under one director.

The functions are quite separate with separate goals but the same aim.

The modern tendency towards 'lean' operations has blurred the lines between a lot of areas in business and Sales and Marketing is one. They may be seen as one operationally but functionally they are quite different.

.

im not sure what you mean tbh. our sales are pretty much all online driven by direct marketing. There is no real 'sales' area as such.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Image development is of course what you need before you can do brand awareness.

 

 

Image development is of course what you need before you can do brand awareness.

I was interested in projecting professionalism, ambition, a left field attitude to life-putting in a 'bid' to host Kate and Willism's night do for instannce went viral world wide, the recycling of Scarborough's stadium was another godsend, belief in community values, as well as putting out the usual stream of informative media releases.

[Padge]

im not sure what you mean tbh. our sales are pretty much all online driven by direct marketing. There is no real 'sales' area as such.

If I come up with a new widget, its no good heading off making a million blue widgets and hoping I can sell them.

 

I go to the market place and check out do people prefer blue or red widgets, the marketing team gather this information, and also the demographic of the people who want widgets. The also test what the value of my new widget is, i.e. how much are people willing to pay.

 

Having found out that people see my widget as a luxury Item as long as it is in red and will pay a premium for it, the marketing team develop  a strategy for getting it to market. Which doors to knock on, how to present the widget and what price we are pitching it at.

 

Once all of the above is completed the information is handed to the sales team who do the door knocking to sell the actual product.

 

The goal of the marketing team is to provide the sales team with products the target market wants and with an achievable price, The goal of Sales is to move as many units into the market as possible using the information provided.

 

The aim of both is to make as much profit for the company as possible, however their is sometimes a conflict. Marketing says you can achieve price X as we have tested the market, Sales will say 'yes, but, we can shift more units if we sell at price X-n%".

 

As I said though in the modern world these lines a being blurred, from what you describe of your company what you are doing is Direct Sales not Direct Marketing. Sales Departments have stolen the Marketing badge as marketing has told them that Marketing is a nicer, friendlier name that people trust more than Sales, a harsh money grubbing word.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

thanks for your views on the Stoop. My thoughts were based on the large amount of negative feedback to the move that has appeared from here.

 

If what you would like to see happen comes to pass, what will be the impact on the game's national profile, and what would be the effect of the now large grass roots structure of the game in the South East/Thames estuary? There does seem to be a stream of talent gradually developing from that area.

I'm not sure what the impact of the loss of SL's only southern side would be, I know that if I was in something like marketing and the RFL came to me talking about SL being a major national sport I'd look at our record in all our incarnations, say 'Yeah, right' and walk away laughing. Perhaps surveys done by the experts in this sort of thing show something different, I'm just talking personally here. When it come to the grass roots, I'm not sure whether it'd make much difference. There would still be two pro or semi-pro clubs in the capital and with both playing at a lower level there would be more chance of players being able to make the move up. We don't appear to have much effect here (although someone nearer the club might have a better take on this than me) as attempts to get people from the grass roots side to come and watch us through things like free ticket offers have yielded diddly squat.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Chronicler of Chiswick

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I'm not sure what the impact of the loss of SL's only southern side would be, I know that if I was in something like marketing and the RFL came to me talking about SL being a major national sport I'd look at our record in all our incarnations, say 'Yeah, right' and walk away laughing. Perhaps surveys done by the experts in this sort of thing show something different, I'm just talking personally here. When it come to the grass roots, I'm not sure whether it'd make much difference. There would still be two pro or semi-pro clubs in the capital and with both playing at a lower level there would be more chance of players being able to make the move up. We don't appear to have much effect here (although someone nearer the club might have a better take on this than me) as attempts to get people from the grass roots side to come and watch us through things like free ticket offers have yielded diddly squat.

thanks for that mate

[Dave T]

If I come up with a new widget, its no good heading off making a million blue widgets and hoping I can sell them.

 

I go to the market place and check out do people prefer blue or red widgets, the marketing team gather this information, and also the demographic of the people who want widgets. The also test what the value of my new widget is, i.e. how much are people willing to pay.

 

Having found out that people see my widget as a luxury Item as long as it is in red and will pay a premium for it, the marketing team develop  a strategy for getting it to market. Which doors to knock on, how to present the widget and what price we are pitching it at.

 

Once all of the above is completed the information is handed to the sales team who do the door knocking to sell the actual product.

 

The goal of the marketing team is to provide the sales team with products the target market wants and with an achievable price, The goal of Sales is to move as many units into the market as possible using the information provided.

 

The aim of both is to make as much profit for the company as possible, however their is sometimes a conflict. Marketing says you can achieve price X as we have tested the market, Sales will say 'yes, but, we can shift more units if we sell at price X-n%".

 

As I said though in the modern world these lines a being blurred, from what you describe of your company what you are doing is Direct Sales not Direct Marketing. Sales Departments have stolen the Marketing badge as marketing has told them that Marketing is a nicer, friendlier name that people trust more than Sales, a harsh money grubbing word.

Whilst we are going off at a tangent it is an interesting one (to me at least!). I do partly agree, but I think your last point sort of highlights the point about Marketing and Sales being almost the same thing in many instances. Of course it depends on the business, but where a company trades primarily online, you only speak to customers through your marketing. As a commercial manager I wouldn't get involved in creating Display ads, Facebook campaigns etc. they would absolutely be Marketing activities purely to drive sales (with some awareness in these examples).

 

It's an interesting one for me as we are currently having some challenges, where our Marketing team have become Trade Marketing (as per your comment about them effectively being sales) and this is a real challenge for them as they see their job as choosing nice colours and providing fancy ads and leaflets - whereas my interest in trade is mainly about numbers and getting the customers in.

 

To link this back to RL, I do think the Marketing teams should ultimately be responsible for the ticket sales - less so specialist things like corporate where strong sales staff are required. The main purpose of marketing for an RL club at the moment should be to drive sales and increase revenues, done smartly this should raise awareness anyway.

 

So after all that rambling, I think I am at the same starting point that I do think Sales and marketing are more closely linked than you originally state.

[nadera78]

I'm not sure what the impact of the loss of SL's only southern side would be, I know that if I was in something like marketing and the RFL came to me talking about SL being a major national sport I'd look at our record in all our incarnations, say 'Yeah, right' and walk away laughing. Perhaps surveys done by the experts in this sort of thing show something different, I'm just talking personally here. When it come to the grass roots, I'm not sure whether it'd make much difference. There would still be two pro or semi-pro clubs in the capital and with both playing at a lower level there would be more chance of players being able to make the move up. We don't appear to have much effect here (although someone nearer the club might have a better take on this than me) as attempts to get people from the grass roots side to come and watch us through things like free ticket offers have yielded diddly squat.

People who like playing a sport don't always like watching it. Or more precisely, I know when I played football it involved 2 or 3 times a week including games and training. Attempting to get another day pass from the Mrs to go and watch a game on top of that was nigh on impossible.

 

My worry, if the Broncos dropped out of SL, is how many of the youngsters would move up north to a SL club, how many would stick around with Hemel, Skolars, etc, and how many would end up in RU. It would be horrendous if southern RL simply ended up as a finishing school for rahrah clubs.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

People who like playing a sport don't always like watching it. Or more precisely, I know when I played football it involved 2 or 3 times a week including games and training. Attempting to get another day pass from the Mrs to go and watch a game on top of that was nigh on impossible.

 

My worry, if the Broncos dropped out of SL, is how many of the youngsters would move up north to a SL club, how many would stick around with Hemel, Skolars, etc, and how many would end up in RU. It would be horrendous if southern RL simply ended up as a finishing school for rahrah clubs.

Good points. My father played RU in his youth (including once at Roedean  ) but never watched, even when it was on TV, and I couldn't agree more with your last sentence!

[keighley]

I would hope that any Championship level London based clubs, including the Broncos if they ended up there, would be able to pitch to their local players the chance to play in SL with them, given the probable re introduction of promotion in some form with the new plans being debated and voted on by the clubs and thus not lose them to the game.

 

I agree that to lose players to RU would be a terrible thing but the loss of top flight clubs in Cumbria does not seem to have resulted in mass defections to RU, so maybe that would not be the case in London either..

[nadera78]

I would hope that any Championship level London based clubs, including the Broncos if they ended up there, would be able to pitch to their local players the chance to play in SL with them, given the probable re introduction of promotion in some form with the new plans being debated and voted on by the clubs and thus not lose them to the game.

 

I agree that to lose players to RU would be a terrible thing but the loss of top flight clubs in Cumbria does not seem to have resulted in mass defections to RU, so maybe that would not be the case in London either..

1) A London club in the Championship, or whatever it's called in future, will never be able to build to a point where it is strong enough to rejoin the elite. RL's public presence is minuscule as it is, playing in the lower leagues we will disappear off the radar altogether.

 

2) Completely different situation. If you grow up in Cumbria and want to play pro RL or RU you have to move away from home. Down here, assuming London drop out of SL,  you'd have to move up north to play pro RL or stay local to play pro RU.  

[The Parksider]

1) A London club in the Championship, or whatever it's called in future, will never be able to build to a point where it is strong enough to rejoin the elite. RL's public presence is minuscule as it is, playing in the lower leagues we will disappear off the radar altogether.

 

2) Completely different situation. If you grow up in Cumbria and want to play pro RL or RU you have to move away from home. Down here, assuming London drop out of SL,  you'd have to move up north to play pro RL or stay local to play pro RU.

Your points are bang on. It's not just moving away from home though, it's having to uproot and wave goodbye to other aspects of your lifestyle to have a go at something you can easily fail at. I suspect RL run "academies" for Cumbria, South Wales and London will be what replaces pro clubs in a vain attempt to increase the "player pool" in areas where pro RL has failed and will most probably continue to do so, apart from in Fantasy RL land.

[keighley]

1) A London club in the Championship, or whatever it's called in future, will never be able to build to a point where it is strong enough to rejoin the elite. RL's public presence is minuscule as it is, playing in the lower leagues we will disappear off the radar altogether.

 

2) Completely different situation. If you grow up in Cumbria and want to play pro RL or RU you have to move away from home. Down here, assuming London drop out of SL,  you'd have to move up north to play pro RL or stay local to play pro RU.  

 

1. They will so under p and r.

 

2. It's exactly the same situation. You have to leave Cumbria if you want to play SL and, if Boncos are relegated, you will have to leave London to do so.

[The Parksider]

It's exactly the same situation. You have to leave Cumbria if you want to play SL and, if Broncos are relegated, you will have to leave London to do so.

If your a Hunslet lad and want to play SL for Leeds you will have to leave Hunslet to do so, and move to Leeds. "It's exactly the same situation".

Except it's not, and the point you choose to deliberately completely ignore is the London lads may as well switch back to Union as their first aim.