The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[ckn]

If the TV money is to be distributed as proposed, essentially SL clubs get no change to their cut with the extra money going in parachute payments and to the Championship clubs, then how does that help retain players?  Union's salary caps are going up, in England it's now £4.5m with a free marquee player and up to £240,000 cap credits for players coming through the youth squad, in France it's now £8.6m with youth players under £43k exempt from the cap.  Even the Welsh RU caps are £3.5m with a free marquee player.

 

I know that we'll never be able to win a financial willy-waggling contest but at least give the clubs some chance of retaining talent.  I had hoped that if there were a reduction of clubs at the top table then that extra money would be fed directly into the top table clubs.

[goldcoaster]

Will any of the clubs hoping to be promoted be any better than those being relegated?

Looking at the Championship -

Sheffield don't get the crowds to sustain a SL club.

Halifax couldn't cut it last time, their final season in SL they won 1 game then got the two points deducted for a salary cap overspend.

Leigh, they almost went bust not long ago after the sad death of Arthur Thomas.

Fev, is not a large enough conurbation to sustain a SL club.

IMO none of the above are worth a place in SL.

Catalans played a game in Toulouse v HKR and got over 14500 in. That's around 14k local Toulouse supporters and Toulouse weren't even playing!

Toulouse everytime over the current Championship clubs.

The Intl last year in Avignon had 16k at the game. The South of France is our best development area at present. That's where we should be looking to expand.

 

Spot on. None of the CC teams are worth having in the top flight. They are small-town 'park football' teams. It would be like the NRL saying the winner of group 9 Country RL can be promoted to the NRL the following season because they won the grand final.

 

Or The English Premier League offering promotion to the winning Blue Square Premier team straight to the EPL.

 

It will all end in disaster and the death of British RL. The only people happy about this are fans of CC clubs, because of their own self-interest.

[nadera78]

To be fair, the rights for the lower tiers were always tied in with the SL contract, so the RFL werent allowed to give them away. Sky did start showing the lower tier games just before licensing came in but they then lost interest after licensing hence why it was given away. The good thing now is that the CC and CC1 is not part of the SL contract, so it is up to everyone to try and get sone decent tv rights. I will certainly be renewing both sky sports and premier once P&R returns.

That is absolutely not true in any way, shape or form.

 

When the original SL contract with Sky was re-negotiated in around about 1998, the NFP clubs demanded not to be included. They received a pay off from the RFL and were then able to find their own sponsors, TV deals, etc. This was when they moved back to a Christmas start date. Guess what? No-one was interested, apart from a couple of years when Yorkshire TV covered the play offs.

 

A few years later, the NFP clubs came back under the RFL's leadership, but still had their own TV deal. And guess what? They still couldn't find anyone to show it.

 

When it became known that the RFL were negotiating with Eurosport - a deal that would have seen the RFL pay for the coverage! - Sky decided to start broadcasting Championship games. They paid the costs but not a single penny for the rights. Which, as usually, led to much anger from the mouthy supporters of certain Championship clubs. 

 

What on earth makes you think things will be any different this time?

[nadera78]

If the TV money is to be distributed as proposed, essentially SL clubs get no change to their cut with the extra money going in parachute payments and to the Championship clubs, then how does that help retain players?  Union's salary caps are going up, in England it's now £4.5m with a free marquee player and up to £240,000 cap credits for players coming through the youth squad, in France it's now £8.6m with youth players under £43k exempt from the cap.  Even the Welsh RU caps are £3.5m with a free marquee player.

 

I know that we'll never be able to win a financial willy-waggling contest but at least give the clubs some chance of retaining talent.  I had hoped that if there were a reduction of clubs at the top table then that extra money would be fed directly into the top table clubs.

Don't be ridiculos. Why would we be interested in what's happening out in the rest of the sporting landscape? Or even look back at our own history to learn from our previous mistakes?

 

Everything will be fine. There's is absolutely no chance whatsoever of these proposals leading to RL in this country becoming a small, parochial, provincial training ground for the NRL and rugby union. No chance of it.

[tuutaisrambo]

Will any of the clubs hoping to be promoted be any better than those being relegated?

Looking at the Championship -

Sheffield don't get the crowds to sustain a SL club.

Halifax couldn't cut it last time, their final season in SL they won 1 game then got the two points deducted for a salary cap overspend.

Leigh, they almost went bust not long ago after the sad death of Arthur Thomas.

Fev, is not a large enough conurbation to sustain a SL club.

IMO none of the above are worth a place in SL.

Catalans played a game in Toulouse v HKR and got over 14500 in. That's around 14k local Toulouse supporters and Toulouse weren't even playing!

Toulouse everytime over the current Championship clubs.

The Intl last year in Avignon had 16k at the game. The South of France is our best development area at present. That's where we should be looking to expand.

None of the current CH clubs are being promoted.........they'll have to compete with whoever comes down........i think it's worth letting them try though......that's what sport is all about..........i think Fev, Leigh and Fax could compete if there were good enough to go up.

[Northern Sol]

Catalans played a game in Toulouse v HKR and got over 14500 in. That's around 14k local Toulouse supporters and Toulouse weren't even playing!

Toulouse everytime over the current Championship clubs.

The Intl last year in Avignon had 16k at the game. The South of France is our best development area at present. That's where we should be looking to expand.

I wish people would not misuse statistics this way. A game in Toulouse was hardly attended 100% by Toulosians with nobody travelling from Perpignon or Hull. We don't really know how many locals went.

[tuutaisrambo]

Spot on. None of the CC teams are worth having in the top flight. They are small-town 'park football' teams. It would be like the NRL saying the winner of group 9 Country RL can be promoted to the NRL the following season because they won the grand final.

 

Or The English Premier League offering promotion to the winning Blue Square Premier team straight to the EPL.

 

It will all end in disaster and the death of British RL. The only people happy about this are fans of CC clubs, because of their own self-interest.

We should just have one league with 6 teams in it........forget everyone else as they all play on fields with jumpers for goal posts 

 

Everyone can choose one of the giant mega teams we end up with as eventually they'll all play in 80 thousand seater stadiums

[the phoenix]

Spot on. None of the CC teams are worth having in the top flight. They are small-town 'park football' teams. It would be like the NRL saying the winner of group 9 Country RL can be promoted to the NRL the following season because they won the grand final.

 

Or The English Premier League offering promotion to the winning Blue Square Premier team straight to the EPL.

 

It will all end in disaster and the death of British RL. The only people happy about this are fans of CC clubs, because of their own self-interest.

none are worth having ? - unfortunately is not a tea party where you get to decide who is invited 

this is sport and who ever comes out on top will succeed - at least we are starting now to level out the playing field 

your comments smack of the kids toys coming out of the pram because you cant get your own way

[a.n Other]

Spot on. None of the CC teams are worth having in the top flight. They are small-town 'park football' teams. It would be like the NRL saying the winner of group 9 Country RL can be promoted to the NRL the following season because they won the grand final.

Do you know anything about these towns and cities in the Championship?

[winnyason]

Catalans won't get relegated problem being they won't develop kids anymore stack the side full of imports to avoid this does not encourage development.

[Terry Mullaney]

Spot on. None of the CC teams are worth having in the top flight. They are small-town 'park football' teams. It would be like the NRL saying the winner of group 9 Country RL can be promoted to the NRL the following season because they won the grand final.

 

Or The English Premier League offering promotion to the winning Blue Square Premier team straight to the EPL.

 

It will all end in disaster and the death of British RL. The only people happy about this are fans of CC clubs, because of their own self-interest.

Rubbish yet again. It's the SL clubs who have voted for 12 clubs with P&R. How hard is that to understand for God's sake.

[tuutaisrambo]

Don't be ridiculos. Why would we be interested in what's happening out in the rest of the sporting landscape? Or even look back at our own history to learn from our previous mistakes?

 

Everything will be fine. There's is absolutely no chance whatsoever of these proposals leading to RL in this country becoming a small, parochial, provincial training ground for the NRL and rugby union. No chance of it.

It's already going that way. That's why they are making the changes. The new proposals won't help us keep the best players but they will make the game more interesting. Maybe down the line that will help us grow and be more commercially successful.

[goldcoaster]

None of the current CH clubs are being promoted.........they'll have to compete with whoever comes down........i think it's worth letting them try though......that's what sport is all about..........i think Fev, Leigh and Fax could compete if there were good enough to go up.

 

 

none are worth having ? - unfortunately is not a tea party where you get to decide who is invited 

this is sport and who ever comes out on top will succeed - at least we are starting now to level out the playing field 

your comments smack of the kids toys coming out of the pram because you cant get your own way

 

Sport may all be about who comes out on top, but professional sport is about much more. It's about strategy, marketability and the sport is essentially a product to be sold to the masses. This decision didn't take any of these factors into account, and there is no way a competent sports administrator like David Gallop or Richard Lewis would have allowed it to go through.

[nadera78]

It's already going that way. That's why they are making the changes. The new proposals won't help us keep the best players but they will make the game more interesting. Maybe down the line that will help us grow and be more commercially successful.

The changes will make it more interesting for the small number of fans at a handful of clubs who dream of seeing their team get spanked by WIgan or Leeds once every two or three seasons. Well done, you've re-created the past. In the real world, however, sport is changing.

 

Hmm, play in a watered down, inter-village, provincial RL competition? Or play in the glamourous NRL or union internationals? What a choice! The current trickle will become a flood.

[boxhead]

The writing has been on the wall for several years.

None of it is good for the game in General and particularly for the English game.

[YCKonstantine]

Sinfield backs Super League changes

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_12626-sinfield-backs-super-league-changes.html?utm_medium=twitter

Edited July 11, 2013 by YCKonstantine

[winnyason]

He does have a point it seems to me the small town teams have got there own way.

Really how many more times will the rfl more the posts for Toulouse, first go into cc play your players less and expect the best of elite to play for them please. Say oh your elite team is not good enough so you develop your team to at near top level have a junior academy. Then they say oh your stadium is not up to standards so you get council approval. Oh now you need a tv deal in a country where rugby xiii has never had anything but the elite final on tv only this year have we seen bein show some interest in nrl.

It is a f"""n joke, did London have to do this or the Celtic side no if they don't won't a 2nd French team then just say no not this strung out ######.

It is like leading the ugly girl along all through school only to say no I don't like you.

[gingerjon]

Sinfield backs Super League changes

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_12626-sinfield-backs-super-league-changes.html?utm_medium=twitter

 

I never knew Kevin Sinfield was so able to sound like a pre-written press release.

[YCKonstantine]

I never knew Kevin Sinfield was so able to sound like a pre-written press release.

He's been practising

[tuutaisrambo]

Sport may all be about who comes out on top, but professional sport is about much more. It's about strategy, marketability and the sport is essentially a product to be sold to the masses. This decision didn't take any of these factors into account, and there is no way a competent sports administrator like David Gallop or Richard Lewis would have allowed it to go through.

The problem is apart from Wigan and leeds there aren't any large clubs we can market to the masses as you say.   I don't think you realise that teams like Cas, wakefield, hull kr, london and widnes are far closer to the Championship clubs you mention in terms of size, marketability, potential etc than they are to the top SL teams.

 

Supporters won't move clubs....it doesn't work like that in the UK.......no matter what marketing you do........you'd have to wait til they all die out.

 

The difference between WIGAN and say FEV is not as you said like  "The English Premier League offering promotion to the winning Blue Square Premier team straight to the EPL"

 

Mansfield Town haven't won the FA cup 3 times

[tuutaisrambo]

The changes will make it more interesting for the small number of fans at a handful of clubs who dream of seeing their team get spanked by WIgan or Leeds once every two or three seasons. Well done, you've re-created the past. In the real world, however, sport is changing.

 

Hmm, play in a watered down, inter-village, provincial RL competition? Or play in the glamourous NRL or union internationals? What a choice! The current trickle will become a flood.

The top players are always gonna move to the top clubs if they are good enough.  We can't cling on to the false idea that Super league is an elite competition for more the 3 or for teams.  I'd rather all our top players go to the NRL....we'd have a stronger National team.

 

I don't think all our top players are that good to be honest.......if RL can't offer them the wages they deserve let them try Union or the NRL.......i don't think many would succeed.

 

And yes i'd rather see fev get beat 9 times out of ten against wigan cos there's still be the one when we win........that's sport.

[goldcoaster]

The top players are always gonna move to the top clubs if they are good enough.  We can't cling on to the false idea that Super league is an elite competition for more the 3 or for teams.  I'd rather all our top players go to the NRL....we'd have a stronger National team.

 

I don't think all our top players are that good to be honest.......if RL can't offer them the wages they deserve let them try Union or the NRL.......i don't think many would succeed.

 

And yes i'd rather see fev get beat 9 times out of ten against wigan cos there's still be the one when we win........that's sport.

 

So SL is only for 3 teams? You'd rather elite players go to union.

 

It shows you are only interested in Fev. Nothing else, and you don't care about the game of Rugby League.

 

the reason i'm so vocal about this is I love Rugby League, and to wake up this morning and read that one of only 2 elite competitions in the world is essentially dead, is pretty terrible news.

[the phoenix]

Sport may all be about who comes out on top, but professional sport is about much more. It's about strategy, marketability and the sport is essentially a product to be sold to the masses. This decision didn't take any of these factors into account, and there is no way a competent sports administrator like David Gallop or Richard Lewis would have allowed it to go through.

so what you are saying is that the sport no longer becomes a sellable proposition if one of the bottom few S/L teams is replaced by a top championship side - have a word with yourself

the majority of the teams and the ruling body are all in favour of these changes to take the game forward or at least try to give us better than what we have got 

just because it doesent sit well with you and a few others doesent make it wrong,backward on less marketable

[Southerner]

Sinfield backs Super League changes

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_12626-sinfield-backs-super-league-changes.html?utm_medium=twitter

Sinfield actually doesn't explain any of his bizarre points i.e. "Personally I like the proposed format and I think it addresses a lot of the issues that we have in the game at the moment". How Kevin? 

 

"The regular season will be similar to what we have now... but now the teams who consistently perform during the regular season can carry that advantage into the play offs". Kevin, this was exactly the current situation, this will not change with the new format.

 

Potential new supporters and people looking in on SL must be very confused.

[tuutaisrambo]

So SL is only for 3 teams? You'd rather elite players go to union.

 

It shows you are only interested in Fev. Nothing else, and you don't care about the game of Rugby League.

 

the reason i'm so vocal about this is I love Rugby League, and to wake up this morning and read that one of only 2 elite competitions in the world is essentially dead, is pretty terrible news.

That's not what i said.......If our elite players are so good that they are worth more than SL can afford to pay them then we should let them go..........i'm saying that i don't think they are that good............and we shouldn't reduce our game to a handful of teams funded to a point where they can afford to keep these players.