The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[TheTerminator]

After Mr Davy appeared on the scene Huddersfield struggled for years. One of the reasons was the utterly stupid P&R system that was in place at the time.

The P&R system actually allowed Huddersfield to build on the momentum and winning mentality that a season in the lower league had nurtured. It also allowed them to root out the on field dross that had repeatedly failed them and blood young players like Eorl Crabtree who are now bedrocks of the club. By not being relegated on the numerous occasions when they had finished hooelessly bottom, a losing mentality had flourished that in turn held the club back. Edited July 11, 2013 by TheTerminator

[nadera78]

There is potentially more teams that will be moving to a full time environment as a result of the changes. Isn't that growth?

It's growth in the number of clubs paying out full-time wages. But it's not growth of the sport as a whole. It's not growth in the number of elite players, or elite infrastructure, or investors, or fans, or corporate support, or broadcast and media interest.

 

It's simply trying to re-create the sporting landscape of the past in the 21st Century.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Most of these clubs have been in the league since 1895 and it's still about *potential*?

I couldn't make it up.

 

.....and London (and a proposed Toulouse) are about?

[a.n Other]

It's growth in the number of clubs paying out full-time wages. But it's not growth of the sport as a whole. It's not growth in the number of elite players, or elite infrastructure, or investors, or fans, or corporate support, or broadcast and media interest.

It's simply trying to re-create the sporting landscape of the past in the 21st Century.

If there are more full time players that could increase elite players, it may lead to more investors, clubs increasing their corporate support. It could mean that clubs that are struggling like London can stabilise at a level that suits them more and then use it as a base to grow.

IMO this far better for the sport that a stagnant league where most if the teams have nothing to play for after 12 games.

Edited July 11, 2013 by a.n Other

[tuutaisrambo]

DId I say that? No. I was using you as a very visible example because it's constantly Fev and Leigh fans on here going on about it. Plenty of others are to blame too.

Blame?

 

Surely us few backwater locals and our views won't effect what the RFL have planned for their flagship competition.

 

Maybe the powers that be have just decided the current system isn't working.

 

BTW this is the only fans forum i've ever been on where you get criticised for wanting what is best for your team.

[ckn]

RIght... 20 posts deleted, broad brush applied taking out some that were borderline and some that would normally have been OK but were caught in with the off-topic stuff.

 

Point 1:  Keep your internal club politics to yourself.

Point 2:  It's unacceptable to bring in personal conflicts to threads like this.

Point 3:  Keep it civil

[gingerjon]

*checks to see if the one where I called ckn a ###### has survived*

[ckn]

*checks to see if the one where I called ckn a ###### has survived*

That was on Facebook...

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Sinfield actually doesn't explain any of his bizarre points i.e. "Personally I like the proposed format and I think it addresses a lot of the issues that we have in the game at the moment". How Kevin? 

 

"The regular season will be similar to what we have now... but now the teams who consistently perform during the regular season can carry that advantage into the play offs". Kevin, this was exactly the current situation, this will not change with the new format.

 

Potential new supporters and people looking in on SL must be very confused.

he didn't mention chinese bamboo by any chance?

[DeadShotKeen]

Been away from this forum and things are going from bad to worse. My tuppence h'apenny worth:

 

First the Broncos situation has been coming for some time, I suspect as with CKN's post that this decision is simply the last nail in the coffin lid.

 

Secondly, I would remind those "Big Club" fans  celebrating the 12 team league particularily from Warrington and Saints that as any Bradford fan can tell you you do remain at the top forever and at least one of your clubs is more financially challenged than people realise.

 

Thirdly, posting as an ex-TU Steward (So was Norman Tebbit i might add so suspend your disbelief ) I am truly amazed that Jonh Wilkin could be so sanguine in accepting job losses from his members in the two soon to be relegated clubs leaving Super League. Players dropping from full time contracts to part-time - assuming their club survives the drop - will suffer a severe hit to their familes living standards. Not all will find a contract elsewhere. 1eague3 is exposed now as a staff association with a leadership that apparently acts in favour of the haves rather than the have nots. Players would have been better off with the GMB.

 

Fourth point , Toulouse will now not get into Super League. Expansion of the game is indeed dead as organic growth has never and will never work. The money will not be there for who invests in a game played in a few small towns on the M62.

French rugby league will suffer arrested development and Catalans long term future must be in doubt with Wood confirming that the club wil go down to the championship if in a relegation spot. The game appears to have decided that the development of French rugby league as a viable competitor in the Northern Hemisphere is not a strategic priority.

 

Fifth point, Investors will not be attracted to a regional sport thaty is not even Northern in coverage. though I suppose yesterdays decision brings the Payday Loans Super League one stage closer.

 

Sixth point.the remaining 12 clubs will raise the salary cap, partly funded by dividing 14 shares into 12. This will permanently damn Championship clubs to a yo-yo existence and in some cases bankrupcy. Yesterday's decision does not reduce the funding gap between the two leagues but will extend it. To you Flatcappers, as we say down here you will find you have been "done up like a kipper"  

 

Seventh point, As we can already see the remaining 12 "big" clubs will go waving the cheque books down under without realising that while the exchange rate between England and Australia may be temporarily in Australia's favour. The NRL by virtue of being the most popular winter code in the Eastern states and now with a truly independent commission will be able to command a TV deal that will permanently alter the balance of purchasing power in the NRL's favour regardless of how much the exchange rate fluctuates back to the UK in the future.

 

Eighth point, within 3 years Super League clubs will go cap in hand to the NRL for assistance. but what would be in it for th NRL ?. I am sure that Gus Gould will be making the point that with the best English players in the NRL already. the only future relationship between the NRL and a regional sport will be not as equals but similar to that of teams in the Queensland Cup. A feeder league where the best juniors can join an NRL side and juniors in need of game time can play Super League.

 

Ninth point, Some clubs have already opened back chanels of communication with Premiership Rugby (Union). Again as with the NRL. As Super League continues to contract what is in it for the Union clubs to associate with a decaying sport. After all "organic growth" will ensure that Juniors join Union ranks equipped with a better skill set while younger players and coaches from "traditional" clubs are already losing no time in crossing the divide. 

 

Tenth and most crucial point is that SKY do appear to be losing interest in League as a property with Monday night games moved for lower division soccer and a T20 league set for Friday nights next summer. Coupled with no World Cup coverage . I think you can look forward to games played on any day with a "y" in it from 2015 and with SKY subscfriptions already being raised to help the company build up its war chest to compete for the major sporting properties with the cashed up BT (i.e. exclusive rights to the major national sports in the UK) it is now known that many other sports will have a reduced deal to compensate. Of course the regional league could go to Premier Sports but that would mean a subscription channel offering no more than a reduced SKY deal with a lower subscriber base. That is of course if Premier Sports are around in 2015. The next SKY offer will be lower and on a take it or leave it basis.

 

As for the recession having been to plenty of sold out T20 games recently and noting this was achieved for the Roses Derby in the North all I will say is that other sports must be "recession proof" and this is a lame excuse for low crowds

 

I was one of the first to post that the game was turning into a feeder league for the NRL and RFU a few years ago. It would appear that by its own hand the game appears resolutely determined to go down the gurgler and things are speeding up. Its a shame but the games problems are entrely self-inflicted.and the result of clubs acting in their own interest without thinking that a strategic investment in the games future would benefit all.

 

Exceptional post.

 

The worst day in the history of the sport.

 

In NRL alone we trust.

[Jim from Oz]

Exceptional post.

 

The worst day in the history of the sport.

 

In NRL alone we trust.

Agreed. Exceptional post. An utterly stupid move by the RFL. And I couldn't agree more re the point about French rugby league.

[chuffer]

Well I'll forward to yo-yo-ing between SL and Championship with Cas again ala 2006-2007........great..........

[Steve May]

The P&R system actually allowed Huddersfield to build on the momentum and winning mentality that a season in the lower league had nurtured. It also allowed them to root out the on field dross that had repeatedly failed them and blood young players like Eorl Crabtree who are now bedrocks of the club. By not being relegated on the numerous occasions when they had finished hooelessly bottom, a losing mentality had flourished that in turn held the club back.

 

Old ground this, and bound to be jumped on but they were in fact relegated every year, and then had to hang on while it was decided whether or not the team below would come up.  At which point they were suddenly unrelegated.  It happened three years on the bounce IIRC.

 

Sad times, and coming back to a club near you soon.

 

Ironically, by the time they were finally relegated they were probably in good enough shape to stay up and really thrive the following year thanks to the club building of Tony Smith.

[Ant]

Yeah, the one time we were relegated it was probably the one time we "should" have stayed up!

[Ant]

Yeah, the one time we were relegated it was probably the one time we "should" have stayed up!

[GeordieSaint]

I personally think 12 teams for the top division is a perfect size. However, having just read what is being proposed. I am now in despair, especially regarding French clubs. The RFL at the behest of the clubs are about to implement a truly awful model. When are these people ever going to realise that the professional clubs, both SL and Championship clubs are only the tip of the iceberg?

Edited July 11, 2013 by GeordieSaint

[Ant]

The thing is its not at the behest of the clubs is it

KPMG have made a report saying there is a lack of "peril" in the league structure

The RFL have come up with a selection of proposals based on god knows what that they are then telling the clubs to choose from

Please correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK none of the options the clubs could vote on was "do nothing"

[zorquif]

The thing is its not at the behest of the clubs is it

KPMG have made a report saying there is a lack of "peril" in the league structure

The RFL have come up with a selection of proposals based on god knows what that they are then telling the clubs to choose from

Please correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK none of the options the clubs could vote on was "do nothing"

 

Well, what would the point in paying a company like KPMG a shed load of cash and then saying 'nah, we don't like your ideas, sod off'?

[Ant]

Totally true

But given the language they didn't necessarily say "bring back P&R" did they

And again afaik they didn't make any suggestions, I'd love to get a copy of that report to see just what they said

[Ackroman]

By all means offer an opinion but all this wailing and moaning?! Shouldn't you be blaming SL clubs not other fans?

[The Future is League]

Does anyone think that the rich men who bankroll certain clubs at the moment we still hang around in Rugby League if their teams are relegated?

Is Rugby League strong enough to survive without their financial help?

[Ackroman]

Does anyone think that the rich men who bankroll certain clubs at the moment we still hang around in Rugby League if their teams are relegated?

Is Rugby League strong enough to survive without their financial help?

Ask them. They're the ones making the decisions.

[The Future is League]

Ask them. They're the ones making the decisions

Lets refine the question a bit more. Do YOU think that David Hughes and Marwan Koukash will still bankroll their clubs if their clubs are relegated?

[a.n Other]

Lets refine the question a bit more. Do YOU think that David Hughes and Marwan Koukash will still bankroll their clubs if their clubs are relegated?

I don't think Hughes will bankroll London regardless of P&R

[The Future is League]

I don't think Hughes will bankroll London regardless of P&R

Do you think that Marwan Koukash will hang around if the Reds are cut from Super League?

Edited July 11, 2013 by The Future is League