The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Ant]

Not having P&R would have seen us die which would have been a scalp for Wigan

Ok, you're just making this up now aren't you?

[the phoenix]

You do realise it was the Superleague clubs that voted for this, not The RFL or the Championship clubs, don't you?

the S/L and rfl want it because its clearly the way forward from something that isnt working

Championship clubs like it because with extra revenue it could lead the top few into turning pro or at least a few of their top players to stop them dissapearing to other sides, also it gives them a clearly defined path of where they can be ,given investment and future on field improvement

majority of fans like it because we love the sport and it will bring back meaningfull games with the added excitement of the P and R deciders instead of so many dead rubbers we now have

media will follow on with their support because the game will become more exciting 

 

alas the mafia on here cant see past the end or their noses or their own personal agenda`s - wonder of the jockey club needs some new blood - im sure they would have a field day recruiting

[Dave T]

The thing is its not at the behest of the clubs is it

KPMG have made a report saying there is a lack of "peril" in the league structure

The RFL have come up with a selection of proposals based on god knows what that they are then telling the clubs to choose from

Please correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK none of the options the clubs could vote on was "do nothing"

I believe there was an option of 'stay as we are' which was dismissed at the earliest possible stage.

[Dave T]

Why can't RL fans have an opinion on something without the stance of 'do what I like best, or the game will die'?

 

The game never died with P&R, it won't in future.

 

We had P&R for many years in SL it was fine.

 

Personally I was in favour of licensing, but expanding to 14 clubs (without them being French clubs) was a bad decision imho, and I am happy to see us going back to 12 clubs.

[Ant]

Which is fair enough, some work was needed

But a top to bottom overhaul...no

[Duff Duff]

the S/L and rfl want it because its clearly the way forward from something that isnt working

Championship clubs like it because with extra revenue it could lead the top few into turning pro or at least a few of their top players to stop them dissapearing to other sides, also it gives them a clearly defined path of where they can be ,given investment and future on field improvement

majority of fans like it because we love the sport and it will bring back meaningfull games with the added excitement of the P and R deciders instead of so many dead rubbers we now have

media will follow on with their support because the game will become more exciting 

 

alas the mafia on here cant see past the end or their noses or their own personal agenda`s - wonder of the jockey club needs some new blood - im sure they would have a field day recruiting

The NRL can flourish without the "excitement" of promotion and relegation. The NRL is the model to follow not the failed model that British rugby league followed in the 1980s.

 

The 3 x 8 "solution" to the problems of relegation is  complete fudge that is a compromise to stop the tough economic decisions from being made. A joke. 

[a.n Other]

the S/L and rfl want it because its clearly the way forward from something that isnt working

Championship clubs like it because with extra revenue it could lead the top few into turning pro or at least a few of their top players to stop them dissapearing to other sides, also it gives them a clearly defined path of where they can be ,given investment and future on field improvement

majority of fans like it because we love the sport and it will bring back meaningfull games with the added excitement of the P and R deciders instead of so many dead rubbers we now have

media will follow on with their support because the game will become more exciting

alas the mafia on here cant see past the end or their noses or their own personal agenda`s - wonder of the jockey club needs some new blood - im sure they would have a field day recruiting

Excellent post.

[Dave T]

Which is fair enough, some work was needed

But a top to bottom overhaul...no

Well potentially all that will happen will be we revert back to 12 teams with 1 up 1 down. Hardly a massive overhaul (although I do accept that the radical option is still on the pad).

[Ant]

How many meaningful games will it bring back?

2?

3?

[Konkrete]

Well this is a predictably appalling decision. The hard decisions about how rugby league can be turned into a viable professional sport have been dodged yet again to placate the interests of a few small town clubs that have proven time and again that they are incapable of supporting fully professional clubs.

Rugby League in Europe needed a closed elite competition of 10 or 12 clubs that concentrated the TV money, sponsorship and playing talent to create the highest standard competition possible. That elite competition should have admitted credible expansion clubs like Toulouse or whoever else who can put together a decent business plan.

A future European Super League should have looked like

Wigan

Warrington

St Helens

Salford

Leeds

Bradford

Huddersfield

Hull FC

Catalans

Toulouse

One of Castleford or Wakefield

One of Hull KR or Widnes

The brutal reality is that British Rugby League can only support one fully professional competition. Because the game can only support one fully professional competition you can't have direct promotion and relegation between a fully professional competition and the semi professional competitions below. It is the very reason why the NRL don't have promotion and relegation with the NSW Cup and Queensland Cup. The economics of it just don't work. People won't invest in the clubs if their financial returns are dependent on the bounce of a ball on the pitch.

Instead of concentrating its limited resources to create a premium product that can compete financially with the NRL and Union the RFL and clubs have decided to recreate the 1980s. Instead of raising standards they will be levelled downwards as the money is spread between 24 clubs.

They have made the completely wrong decision. The top 10 or so Super League clubs should break away and form their own elite competition. The RFL and the Championship clubs seem to be living in lah lah land. What a joke.

Correct.

[Dave T]

Funny how not long ago we were Super Greed fans who didn't care about the whole game. Now a terrible short sighted decision has been made which will harm the game and it's the Mafia on here being short sighted?

There is absolutely, definitely, categorically no future in a regionalised, not even properly northern sport. Not my opinion, but the fact.

thats not a fact mate its your opinion.

the future may not be one that you would like, but im not convinced moving to 12 teams means we will be any more of a Northern sport than we currently are.

[Ant]

You know what, I'm going to stop caring

In the short term this will advantage my team and in the long run it won't matter

[Ackroman]

The top 10 or so Super League clubs should break away and form their own elite competition. The RFL and the Championship clubs seem to be living in lah lah land. What a joke.

SL couldn't blow the skin of a rice pudding if that happened. It would be about as attractive to sponsors as fleas.

Also for the life of me I can't understand what the championship clubs have done, or there fans, to warrant this comment.

Can you at least justify them based on the facts or are you just spouting bile for the sake of it?

Edited July 11, 2013 by Ackroman

[Duff Duff]

Funny how not long ago we were Super Greed fans who didn't care about the whole game. Now a terrible short sighted decision has been made which will harm the game and it's the Mafia on here being short sighted?

There is absolutely, definitely, categorically no future in a regionalised, not even properly northern sport. Not my opinion, but the fact.

 

There is a future but it is not a successful or vibrant one. Union and the NRL will continue to pull away and rugby league will be scrabbling about trying to increase the average attendances in Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax and calling that "growth". 

 

It is a complete nonsense. 

[Ackroman]

You know what, I'm going to stop caring

Good because when you do care you lose all sense of perspective.

[colin84hunter]

RFL Premier   RFL Championship   RFL West        RFL East

Warrington        Whitehaven                  golds                 dewsbury

salford                Workington                  south wales       hunselt

bradford             widnes                          rochdale            gateshead

Leeds                 crusaders                     oldham               york

wigan                  sheffield                        barrow               keighley

St helens            Doncaster                    Wath                  coventry

huddersfield      halifax                            oxford                 skolars

wakefield           batley                             swinton               hemel

catalan               castleford        

tolouse               fetherstone        

hull kr                 london        

hull                      leigh        

Edited July 11, 2013 by colin84hunter

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Well I'm happy to see it come back. Structure-wise, I think the top 8 has devalued the play-offs and that the clubs at the bottom have become complacent. On top of this, although the clubs in the Championship have improved their structures, the ultimate reason has always been for them to achieve promotion to the SL and under the licensing system I feel that with every failed license period some will eventually see that their efforts have been in vein for some pretty trivial reasons eventually. It'll be good to see that fight for promotion on the field again. Really gets the interest of the fans in, and was great to see a packed out Headingley back in 2007.

 

I don't buy into the argument that licensing stops clubs going bust. More clubs have gone bust in SL under licensing than they have during P&R.

Or that licensing is the reason we're promoting youth. I'd say the new quota laws and the advancement of the NRL have contributed towards that.

 

I've always sat on the fence when it came to licensing as it hadn't been put into practice so it's always good to give it a fair crack of the whip before condemning it. But having given it nearly 5 years, my personal preference would be to go back to 1 up and 1 down.

 

My only issue is that of Toulouse's entry (and any other expansion side for that matter), and that the safety net would really help them. However, we've managed with Catalans before with the two year protection and think the same could apply for future expansion sides. I think Toulouse are a must. I agree that relegating 3 teams in one season would be too much. I'd relegate two teams in 2014 to make 12 teams, then relegate two again in 2015 to allow for Toulouse's entry in 2016, giving them 2.5 seasons to get ready (which is still 1 year less than Catalans got), then give them 3 years protection.

 

Interesting times ahead...

[sweaty craiq]

The NRL can flourish without the "excitement" of promotion and relegation. The NRL is the model to follow not the failed model that British rugby league followed in the 1980s.

The 3 x 8 "solution" to the problems of relegation is complete fudge that is a compromise to stop the tough economic decisions from being made. A joke.

We need you running our sport, all it takes is a A$1billion tv deal and £3.5m salary cap for 16 clubs- go get em superstar Edited July 11, 2013 by sweaty craiq

[the phoenix]

How many meaningful games will it bring back?

2?

3?

are you for real ? 

firstly during the main season where the S/L sides will be desperate to be top eight to avoid dropping into tier 2 for the 3 x8 so there will be 50% of the top 12 in contention for this so half of each weekly games will have meaning  , never mind about when there are 2 sides from the bottom 6 playing each over - turn that round and we have the same situation in the championship with 6 sides desperate to be in the 4  to be playing the bottom S/L sides 

then we have the second lot of the tiers where silverware will be won and all the tier 2 wanting to finish in the top 4 to join the big boys next year 

 

or even if its straight p and r then the competition will still be fierce as it is in footbal with who is going up and down

[RSN]

Well I'm happy to see it come back. Structure-wise, I think the top 8 has devalued the play-offs and that the clubs at the bottom have become complacent. On top of this, although the clubs in the Championship have improved their structures, the ultimate reason has always been for them to achieve promotion to the SL and under the licensing system I feel that with every failed license period some will eventually see that their efforts have been in vein for some pretty trivial reasons eventually. It'll be good to see that fight for promotion on the field again. Really gets the interest of the fans in, and was great to see a packed out Headingley back in 2007.

I don't buy into the argument that licensing stops clubs going bust. More clubs have gone bust in SL under licensing than they have during P&R.

Or that licensing is the reason we're promoting youth. I'd say the new quota laws and the advancement of the NRL have contributed towards that.

I've always sat on the fence when it came to licensing as it hadn't been put into practice so it's always good to give it a fair crack of the whip before condemning it. But having given it nearly 5 years, my personal preference would be to go back to 1 up and 1 down.

My only issue is that of Toulouse's entry (and any other expansion side for that matter), and that the safety net would really help them. However, we've managed with Catalans before with the two year protection and think the same could apply for future expansion sides. I think Toulouse are a must. I agree that relegating 3 teams in one season would be too much. I'd relegate two teams in 2014 to make 12 teams, then relegate two again in 2015 to allow for Toulouse's entry in 2016, giving them 2.5 seasons to get ready (which is still 1 year less than Catalans got), then give them 3 years protection.

Interesting times ahead...

Pretty much exactly my thoughts.

[Duff Duff]

SL couldn't blow the skin of a rice pudding if that happened. It would be about as attractive to sponsors as fleas.

Also for the life of me I can't understand what the championship clubs have done, or there fans, to warrant this comment.

Can you at least justify them based on the facts or are you just spouting bile for the sake of it?

 

 

SL couldn't blow the skin of a rice pudding if that happened. It would be about as attractive to sponsors as fleas.

Also for the life of me I can't understand what the championship clubs have done, or there fans, to warrant this comment.

Can you at least justify them based on the facts or are you just spouting bile for the sake of it?

 

 

Why would an elite rugby league competition where all 12 clubs had a genuine chance of winning the competition and with 2 French clubs be unattractive?

 

All American professional sports and the NRL don't have promotion and relegation and they have sponsors galore. Blue chip companies aren't going to be attracted to a sport because of the "excitement" of the likes of Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone getting promoted and relegated. It is just not going to happen. 

 

Anybody south of Nottingham won't have a clue where Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone even are!

[l'angelo mysterioso]

We need you running our sport, all it takes is a A$1billion tv deal and £3.5m salary cap for 16 clubs- go get em superstar

any thoughtss on what policy might be regarding clubs that get promoted one year, relegated the next year on year?

[Duff Duff]

We need you running our sport, all it takes is a A$1billion tv deal and £3.5m salary cap for 16 clubs- go get em superstar

 

 

You are missing the point completely. How did the NRL become the billion dollar competition that it is today? Did the NSWRL decide that preserving the first grade status of the North Sydney, Western Suburbs, Balmain, Newtown, Illawarra and St George was the best way of growing the game? Or did they look to expand the League into Newcastle, Queensland, New Zealand, Canberra and Victoria? 

 

I think will all know the answer to that question. Teams from small, insignificant places that don't register with the general population is not box office, it never has been. 

[nadera78]

You are missing the point completely. How did the NRL become the billion dollar competition that it is today? Did the NSWRL decide that preserving the first grade status of the North Sydney, Western Suburbs, Balmain, Newtown, Illawarra and St George was the best way of growing the game? Or did they look to expand the League into Newcastle, Queensland, New Zealand, Canberra and Victoria? 

 

I think will all know the answer to that question. Teams from small, insignificant places that don't register with the general population is not box office, it never has been. 

You're wasting your time arguing. The changes suit them and their worldview, simple as that.

[D9000]

Yeah, cos Wigan and Huddersfield are huge box office. Or is it St Helens snd Warrington that are going to be so attractive to big sponsors?