The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Griff]

 

Serious question - Gary Hetherington was the main man behind the scenes at Sheffield for years.  What financial exposure did he personally have at Sheffield towards the end?

 

None.  He fancied keeping a small shareholding but the RFL wouldn't permit it.  He left in October 1996 and all the shareholdings were transferred by the end of January 1997.

[The Parksider]

There's a few local kids coming through now, Parky.  At Championship level.

 

Eddie Battye's pretty much a regular choice at prop.  Cory Aston's played well in the three games he's had so far.   Lee Sanders and Connor Scott have played first team this year.

 

Little acorns ........

 

I'm not denegrating the club, but even on the reality of things Supeleague clubs have to produce Superleague players and not acorns.

 

I note your analysis that the backer was putting £1,000,000 a year in to make up the shortfall last time. I note those saying they can be a success in SL completely ignore the absence of anyone putting that in and even that was not enough.

 

Bigger disaster than London waiting to happen, but it won't happen.

[keighley]

This is getting confusing now.  Are we really suggesting that Sheffield - sole Challenge Cup final appearance in the 1990s, loyal but small fanbase, big city potential never realised, handful of locals now making the team, don't have a ground to call their own - are the ideal candidates to replace London - sole Challenge Cup final appearance in the 1990s, loyal but small fanbase, big city potential never realised, handful of locals now making the team, don't have a ground to call their own?

 

No they are not the ideal candidates to replace London. I think we all know the more likely and qualified replacements for London are elsewhere.

 

Given the strikingly similar situations of the Eagles and the Broncos that you have highlighted though it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the Eagles could replace the Broncos. It seems to me that if Hughes walks and the Eagles find some funding, given that they are already profitable, that there would be little to choose between to the two of them.

[keighley]

Looking down the teamsheets and back at my memories of the period, I'd say from the combined two squads there were four players worth mentioning.  Paul Reilly, Danny Russell, Chris Thorman and Darren Turner.   All the rest were struggling to be SL quality players.  The only truly outstanding player worth mentioning from both squads was, as you rightly say, Keith Senior.  And he was long gone.

 

Combine two mediocre squads and you just end up with one mediocre squad full of cliques and some heavy payouts to get rid of the rest. 

 

Serious question - Gary Hetherington was the main man behind the scenes at Sheffield for years.  What financial exposure did he personally have at Sheffield towards the end?

 

Are you discounting Mark Aston, Lance Todd trophy winner, England international, creative match winning half back and top goal kicker.?

[Griff]

Are you discounting Mark Aston, Lance Todd trophy winner, England international, creative match winning half back and top goal kicker.?

 

And 32 years old.  Huddersfield discounted him.  If they'd offered him a contract, I doubt if there'd be a Sheffield Eagles today.

[Pottsy]

I've inadvertently opted to 'follow' this topic and am therefore being bombarded with email updates.

Any idea how I can 'unfollow?'

[keighley]

I'm not denegrating the club, but even on the reality of things Supeleague clubs have to produce Superleague players and not acorns.

 

I note your analysis that the backer was putting £1,000,000 a year in to make up the shortfall last time. I note those saying they can be a success in SL completely ignore the absence of anyone putting that in and even that was not enough.

 

Bigger disaster than London waiting to happen, but it won't happen.

 

 Nobody is ignoring the absence of a backer. The track record is that they are out there. Salford were on their beam ends and Khoukash appeared. Similarly, Bradford were already gone when Khan came riding to the rescue. Pearson at Hull, Glover at Wakefield, similalrly numerous investors at Featherstone and Toulouse.

 

So, to me, given the amazing progress from nothing to top of the tree Championship side, making a profit on sub par gates, and producing a playing side of quality from judicious scouting asnd recruiting both in this country and abroad and now seriously attempting to tap into local playing talent, do you really think that the mangement team at Sheffield are planning on getting to SL whilst ignoring the financial realities.? Nothing in their record to date suggests that they are so clueless or naive.

 

Where were Catalans prior to entering SL and look at them now. Microsoft were founded in a garage at Bill Gates fathers house. Progress is possible. There is risk and there will be failure but to pull up the drawbridge and wail woe is me and only the current SL ( many failing) teams are possible for ever and ever is ludicrous.

[keighley]

And 32 years old.  Huddersfield discounted him.  If they'd offered him a contract, I doubt if there'd be a Sheffield Eagles today.

 

You are so right there so that was a fortuitous rejection. 32 was not that old though. How old is the current England captain and Morley is still in the mix for an England place. 

[Griff]

You are so right there so that was a fortuitous rejection. 32 was not that old though. How old is the current England captain and Morley is still in the mix for an England place. 

 

Forwards last longer than half backs.

[The Parksider]

 Nobody is ignoring the absence of a backer. The track record is that they are out there. Salford were on their beam ends and Khoukash appeared. Similarly, Bradford were already gone when Khan came riding to the rescue. Pearson at Hull, Glover at Wakefield, similalrly numerous investors at Featherstone and Toulouse.

 

So, to me, given the amazing progress from nothing to top of the tree Championship side, making a profit on sub par gates, and producing a playing side of quality from judicious scouting asnd recruiting both in this country and abroad and now seriously attempting to tap into local playing talent, do you really think that the mangement team at Sheffield are planning on getting to SL whilst ignoring the financial realities.? Nothing in their record to date suggests that they are so clueless or naive.

 

I take the point but either a club has a backer or it doesn't.

 

If Davey pulled his millions out maybe Fartown will end up playing Gloucester.

 

If Wilkinson the steel man decides to go to the steel city and spend even more on Sheffield than he did on Salford then perhaps Sheffield will one day triumph over the mighty Wigan once more.

 

Any down and out clubs could wipe the honours board clean in Superleague if they were lucky enough to land a vastly generous benefactor. Any top club could end up in CC1 playing gloucester if they lost all benefactorial support.

 

But it's a weak argument you make that in the "here and now" Sheffield can make a dent on SL.

[Steve May]

Are you discounting Mark Aston, Lance Todd trophy winner, England international, creative match winning half back and top goal kicker.?

 

No, I just forgot him.  Doesn't matter, you're looking at no more than a handful of actually good players out of two squads totalling 50 or so players.

[Griff]

No, I just forgot him.  Doesn't matter, you're looking at no more than a handful of actually good players out of two squads totalling 50 or so players.

 

Players out of contract were discarded automatically.  The club had enough contracts to pay off without creating more.

[keighley]

I take the point but either a club has a backer or it doesn't.

 

If Davey pulled his millions out maybe Fartown will end up playing Gloucester.

 

If Wilkinson the steel man decides to go to the steel city and spend even more on Sheffield than he did on Salford then perhaps Sheffield will one day triumph over the mighty Wigan once more.

 

Any down and out clubs could wipe the honours board clean in Superleague if they were lucky enough to land a vastly generous benefactor. Any top club could end up in CC1 playing gloucester if they lost all benefactorial support.

 

But it's a weak argument you make that in the "here and now" Sheffield can make a dent on SL.

 

I don't think i was making that argument. I am though saying that Sheffield have the potential and given their record since their re birth to the present and if the current management team have SL ambitions, then the thought of Sheffield in SL shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Others are ahead of them in the pecking order for SL, but Sheffield can't be discounted.

 

As you rightly point out, any team with a backer, has a chance of SL success. A year ago, Salford looked dead and buried. 4 years ago, Wakelfield looked dead and buried. When Fev were in CC1, they looked dead and buried. Bradford looked to be in serious trouble and an investor from nowhere bailed them out.

 

Sheffield are one step away from these clubs and if they find an investor, they are a viable bet for SL. London are going in the opposite direction. They are one step away from losing their investor and all the perils that will go with that.

 

No one, on a speculative thread like this should be ruled out as a potential SL club because they currently don't have an investor.

 

We have been down this road before but there are clubs out there with huge potential for the future. York in a big city with a new ground imminent. Doncaster, having emerged from bankruptcy, winning their first silverware ever last season and now being a serious contender for a playoff place in the Championship and playing in a large town and in a top class stadium.

 

Halifax, Fev, Leigh are slowly ticking the boxes towards SL criteria qualification.

 

All of these teams have as much potential as Widnes, Castleford, Salford and even London. Finances and opportunity are all that they need. Now that there is to be some form of p and r, it is up to these teams to raise their game and get into SL and we will see how things pan out. 

 

None of these teams may ever make it but, equally, some of them may. Let's get on with whatever reorganisation is planned and let the battles begin.

[Griff]

Spoke to someone last night who said that 2x12,3x8 is a done deal and just needs rubber stamping.  Strangely, he had no idea on how they intended to achieve the reduction in places in the top two divisions from 28 to 24.  So much for the "whole game solution".

[DAZROVER1985]

Spoke to someone last night who said that 2x12,3x8 is a done deal and just needs rubber stamping. Strangely, he had no idea on how they intended to achieve the reduction in places in the top two divisions from 28 to 24. So much for the "whole game solution".

they would need to reduce by 5 if Toulouse are coming in

[gingerjon]

they would need to reduce by 5 if Toulouse are coming in

 

Christ.  They're going to need another fag packet now.

[Griff]

they would need to reduce by 5 if Toulouse are coming in

 

Indeed.

[Griff]

Christ.  They're going to need another fag packet now.

 

I hope they've still got some smokers on the RL Council.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

they would need to reduce by 5 if Toulouse are coming in

Not if the Broncos go to CC1.

[gingerjon]

Not if the Broncos go to CC1.

 

*throws fag packet in bin*

[Lobbygobbler]

Spoke to someone last night who said that 2x12,3x8 is a done deal and just needs rubber stamping. Strangely, he had no idea on how they intended to achieve the reduction in places in the top two divisions from 28 to 24. So much for the "whole game solution".

I imagine it could be 6 down and 2 up

[Pottsy]

Edited August 24, 2013 by Pottsy

[Griff]

Not if the Broncos go to CC1.

 

Bless me - there's a thought.

[Griff]

I imagine it could be 6 down and 2 up

 

7 down, 2 up's been mentioned.  So has 5 down, none up.

 

Either way, it's a lot.

[Jim from Oz]

12x2x8x3 or whatever it is, is utterly ludicrous - as shown on here by the fact no one can work out what's what with it