The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[South Wakefield Sharks]

If you subscribe to the notion that the game needs a system where clubs can move between divisions based on performances on the pitch, then the 2x12 & 3x8 isn't a bad model.

Any club could get a backer with lots of money and could jump from bottom to top. Salford COULD do this with Dr K's money, if it is spent wisely. In the grand scheme of things it isn't too much money to do so.

If a club doesn't have that option, and so has to build up it's business, then the proposed new structure lends to that more readily than the current one.

Take Wakey for example. There is no hope of them catching Leeds as a business by steadily growing. They can't afford a squad that can compete on the pitch, and so the whole mood at Wakey will be of survival and it won't be a business that people will want to associate with. Wakey are small fish in the big pool.

The new structure provides for 22 league games, followed by 7 play-off matches. Wakey's play-off matches would be against clubs with a similar size budget, so there is an opportunity for Wakey to be successful at that level. Their ambition would be to be top of the middle eight and gradually good enough to make the top eight.

The same would apply to clubs like Fev/Sheffield who would set their sights on getting on top of Wakey, and clubs like Dewsbury/Barrow would set their sights on getting ahead of Fev/Sheffield.

At the moment the gap between the levels (certainly SL & championship) is too large for a club to do this in a sustainable way, without a large benefactor.

The downsides to the proposed new structure, are the same for any system that allows movement between leagues based on a year's on field performance. But if we're going with that in RL at this stage, then that is probably the best way to do it.

Worth also bearing in mind that Lengahan et al, are nor objecting to the 2x12 & 3x8 structure, they are simply using that as leverage to gain more control over central funding from the RFL.

[Griff]

Yeah - but who WINS the comp in any particular year ?

 

Is that not important any more ?

[tuutaisrambo]

Yeah - but who WINS the comp in any particular year ?

 

Is that not important any more ?

It is..... but the key is there's more to win.     I'd imagine the eventual champions of each tier get more prize money and a trophy but you're getting 4 big winners of promotion/or retaining a top 12 place the next season.

 

When leeds united got promoted by finishing second behind norwich i didn't car that we weren't the league champions......we'd won promotion.

[Ponterover]

I don't see it that way, Ponterover.  I think you'll still need a massive financial jump.

 

It still requires more finance, of course it does.

 

However the the proposed funding arrangements do make it more achieveable.

 

I'd say it's a moderate leap.

[Ponterover]

Worth also bearing in mind that Lengahan et al, are nor objecting to the 2x12 & 3x8 structure, they are simply using that as leverage to gain more control over central funding from the RFL.

 

The thing is though, if those extra monies aren't distributed to the top 4 of the 2nd 12, it will be a bit of a one sided competition come the split into 8s.  Unless there are clubs who can call on a Sugar Daddy.

 

I love the 3x8 idea and believe it will transform our game in a really positive way.  It won't do it if Leneghan and co keep hold of the money though.

[gogledd]

Its nice to see that Cru get a mention in the OP but I don't think we'll be quite ready for the middle 8 by 2015! In fact we just need to be in the Championship at the end of this season in a position not to get dumped down again when 2 get demoted fro the current SL 2, go out of the Championship and maybe Toulouse comes in as well!

 

I hope that 2 x 12, 3 x 8 goes ahead. I like the format and think it could sell well to broadcasters.

[robinson2]

Football is often cited as an example of promotion and relegation. Notwithstanding the considerable structural differences in the two sports, is there currently provision in rugby league for teams, who are relegated, to receive parachute payments as a way of cushioning the fall?

[Ackroman]

If you don't want to discuss the OP then don't.

 

Go watch Telly or read a paper, go for a walk maybe?

 

Christmas shopping with the wife and 6 month old daughter. Well worth it. I am now off to pick the 3 year old from nursery and then the 6 year old from a Christmas party, while popping into the Black Bull in Reeth for a sneeky pint. It's all go around here you know. Well worth it instead of raking over old ashes. I'll dig out that old thread if I have time.

 

What have you been up to other than just having a pop? I see you haven't contributed meaningfully yet.

[redjonn]

Just wondering how you promote or price the split format to fans as in season ticket. sponsors and commercial hospitality.  Do you have different pricing structures for the different level of competitions before split and after split.  That is championship teams charge more and SL teams charge less for the 2nd tier of games.

 

Thinking particularly from a commercial or sponsor perspective as I would be concerned that you would expect it to be less attractive to sponsors and commercial of current SL teams with regard to the 2nd tier.  Lets not forget that sponsorship/commercial is typically bigger income stream than gate money.

[John Drake]

Please don't start any more new threads about league restructuring when you can keep feeding this 80+ page beast.

 

If any league restructuring actually ever takes place, maybe we'll have a new thread about the changes then. But not before. Keep it all in here for now.

 

Thank you.

[bamfordsbeans]

Most of the attention is being focused on the 7 games at the end of the season.Three-quarters of the season ie 22 fixtures is the same amount as the first few of Superleague.By including the 7 play off fixtures in season tickets(Irealise some will have 4 home fixtures and others 3) this alone should mean better attendances at the end of the season.

Although a little complicated to the occasional observer I think the system has more going for it than against-and certainly better than the present system which is clearly not working.

The 2 divisions of 12 should mean more intense competition by removing the 2 weakest teams -and if as some predict the same teams will stay in the top 12 -so be it.At least the offers have had the chance they don,t get at present.

[The Parksider]

 

 

What have you been up to other than just having a pop? I see you haven't contributed meaningfully yet.

 

Sorry don't do meaningful contributions. However last time I was in the beautiful Reeth I had a blatant Ice cream on the green. Detoured from the A1 for that one.

[redjonn]

Most of the attention is being focused on the 7 games at the end of the season.Three-quarters of the season ie 22 fixtures is the same amount as the first few of Superleague.By including the 7 play off fixtures in season tickets(Irealise some will have 4 home fixtures and others 3) this alone should mean better attendances at the end of the season.

Although a little complicated to the occasional observer I think the system has more going for it than against-and certainly better than the present system which is clearly not working.

The 2 divisions of 12 should mean more intense competition by removing the 2 weakest teams -and if as some predict the same teams will stay in the top 12 -so be it.At least the offers have had the chance they don,t get at present.

 

 

But the question for me is it better than a simple x2 leagues of 12 with P&R.  The two weakest teams at the time still go down and hence more intense competition if your theory is correct.

 

Also and something that has been said many times in the thread is the x8 pool classed as the first stage of play-offs. That's what they seem to be called and hence is the gate money pooled as per today's play-off games. Thus if your a club that gets relatively big attendance is their not possibility you lose monies getting pooled money rather than own gate money.

[Father Ted]

All it needs is for the 14 SL clubs to get more central funding and we could keep 14 teams in the league.

As I understand it SKY pay £26m to the RFL for televising SL games.

The RFL pass on £17m to SL and another £1.7m to the Championship clubs.

That means they keep £7.7m.

No wonder SL clubs are annoyed at this. SKY pay for SL games and the RFL keeps £7.7m?

If the SL clubs received another £200k a year that would surely mean clubs would be better off and not have the current money problems that they do have.

It's not a re-structuring the game needs but the RFL to distribute more of the money to SL clubs, the monies that SKY are paying to televise their games, not the RFL's games!

[Griff]

It is..... but the key is there's more to win.     I'd imagine the eventual champions of each tier get more prize money and a trophy but you're getting 4 big winners of promotion/or retaining a top 12 place the next season.

 

When leeds united got promoted by finishing second behind norwich i didn't car that we weren't the league champions......we'd won promotion.

 

So you reckon that the $uperleague 2 champions are the top team in the second eight ?  Most likely a $uperleague 1 team them.

 

This summarises the whole reason I don't like this system.   It's about promotion and nothing else and, with a 4 from 8 qualification, there will probably be a lot of meaningless games at the end of the season.

 

Not to mention that, at the end of it, nobody could get promoted.

[Keith T]

I don't think enough thought has been given to the 7 play-off matches in the middle tier.   It has been said that the four Championship clubs will get home fixtures against the SL clubs so that gives each four home games but what happens about the playing the other 3 Championship clubs.   If my mathematics are correct then two of the Championship clubs will get another 2 home games and the other two get 2 away games.     Either way there is an imbalance of home games which is unfair to some clubs.    The reverse is the case for the SL clubs where clubs could have up to 6 away games.

[Ponterover]

All it needs is for the 14 SL clubs to get more central funding and we could keep 14 teams in the league.

As I understand it SKY pay £26m to the RFL for televising SL games.

The RFL pass on £17m to SL and another £1.7m to the Championship clubs.

That means they keep £7.7m.

No wonder SL clubs are annoyed at this. SKY pay for SL games and the RFL keeps £7.7m?

If the SL clubs received another £200k a year that would surely mean clubs would be better off and not have the current money problems that they do have.

It's not a re-structuring the game needs but the RFL to distribute more of the money to SL clubs, the monies that SKY are paying to televise their games, not the RFL's games!

 

Don't think that's accurate.

 

Padge or someone else that's good with stats will know for sure, but I believe that the Sky money is split 16 ways. 1 1/16th each for the 14 SL clubs, 1 1/16th for the RFL and 1 1/16th the championships and community game.

[bamfordsbeans]

As Sky are now our paymasters has anybody asked them how any re-structure will affect the deal.

Bit of a long-shot -but with changes in the last couple of years it maybe that they re-consider televising the second structure once a week and paying accordingley.

If they televise second level union(anybody know how much they pay?) why not league which at club level I believe gets better ratings.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

As Sky are now our paymasters has anybody asked them how any re-structure will affect the deal.

Bit of a long-shot -but with changes in the last couple of years it maybe that they re-consider televising the second structure once a week and paying accordingley.

If they televise second level union(anybody know how much they pay?) why not league which at club level I believe gets better ratings.

 

Good point, and if this came about how much could SL count on as their share.

[donny donny]

Not sure if this is old news but;

 

"A further meeting has been scheduled for the  17 January 2014 with a view of concluding all discussions by 24 January 2014.  It was confirmed at the meeting that the 2015 season will have promotion and relegation to and from the Superleague."

 

http://www.doncasterrugbyleague.co.uk/article.php?id=12572

[Griff]

I don't think enough thought has been given to the 7 play-off matches in the middle tier.   It has been said that the four Championship clubs will get home fixtures against the SL clubs so that gives each four home games but what happens about the playing the other 3 Championship clubs.   If my mathematics are correct then two of the Championship clubs will get another 2 home games and the other two get 2 away games.     Either way there is an imbalance of home games which is unfair to some clubs.    The reverse is the case for the SL clubs where clubs could have up to 6 away games.

 

The RFL didn't say that, Keith.  THe RFL said that the Div 2 clubs would get four home games and the Div 1 clubs would get three.  They didn't say who they'd be against.  That statement somehow Chinese Whispered itself into what you now say.

[Ponterover]

As Sky are now our paymasters has anybody asked them how any re-structure will affect the deal.

Bit of a long-shot -but with changes in the last couple of years it maybe that they re-consider televising the second structure once a week and paying accordingley.

If they televise second level union(anybody know how much they pay?) why not league which at club level I believe gets better ratings.

 

Sky willl be fully aware, I doubt the 3x8 would have got anywhere near the table if they didn't approve.

 

Hasn't Nigel Wood already been quoted as saying that Sky were quite excited by the proposal.

[Ponterover]

Not sure if this is old news but;

 

"A further meeting has been scheduled for the  17 January 2014 with a view of concluding all discussions by 24 January 2014.  It was confirmed at the meeting that the 2015 season will have promotion and relegation to and from the Superleague."

 

http://www.doncasterrugbyleague.co.uk/article.php?id=12572

 

Thanks, good to know that it's scheduled to be sorted by the end of January.  Gives everybody 12 months to prepare.

[jpmc]

Sky willl be fully aware, I doubt the 3x8 would have got anywhere near the table if they didn't approve.

 

Hasn't Nigel Wood already been quoted as saying that Sky were quite excited by the proposal.

That seems to have slipped under the radar but now you mention it i think i remember them saying that as well.

[jpmc]

Thanks, good to know that it's scheduled to be sorted by the end of January.  Gives everybody 12 months to prepare.

So its 2 clubs relegated from SLE at the end of 2014 and P&R brought back in 2015?.

So its just the format for 2015 onwards that we're waiting for?