The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[The Parksider]

Yes, Featherstone Rovers. On the basis that Mark Campbell, Feisal Nahaboo and the two other multi millionaire board members think they can. But perhaps you know better, maybe the aforementioned are just fools eh?

 

Terry, their joint worth can be £1,000 trillion zillion.......

 

They cannot spend any more than Ken Davey.

[roughyedspud]

Second tier RL has no record of TV being interested in giving it any money at all, so it follows there will be no better sponsors and no snowballing.

 

Second tier RL has gone from attracting 2,405 fans to 1.,020 over 17 years. Take out Fev and crowds will end up averaging 900. Interest is bombing year after year after year.....

 

Last year 11 of the 14 clubs gave up their independence.

 

In nearly 50 years of following this fantastic sport I've only seen one snowball which was the SKY contract to create Superleague that rescued top division crowds from 5543 to a high of 9431 whilst gifting the game tens of £Millions of pounds.

 

It's everything IMVHO.

 

theres no interest in the 2nd tier from tv (and sponsors,investors & and the drop in attendances) because of the lack on competition,ie lack of movement...clubs have stagnated...most clubs in the championship & champ1 won't have played for 6-7months by the time the new season starts...how the hell can clubs be expected to survive??

 

if we condense all the leagues down to 10 it will increase the competitiveness of all the leagues....and i believe that will increase attendances,sponsorship levels and encourage investment in lower league clubs cos of the potential to actually have ambition!

[Terry Mullaney]

Terry, their joint worth can be £1,000 trillion zillion.......

They cannot spend any more than Ken Davey.

I'm well aware of that Parky but Im not sure they'll hang around for a minimum of another three years. Would you? Edited January 15, 2014 by Terry Mullaney

[The Parksider]

I'm well aware of that Parky but Im not sure they'll hang around for a minimum of another three years. Would you?

 

I'm not sure they didn't back off when they could have touted for Wakefield or Bradford's place.

 

It seems they support the 3x8 option, if they are that rich they shouldn't be afraid of getting straight in with the big boys.

[yipyee]

Second tier RL has no record of TV being interested in giving it any money at all, so it follows there will be no better sponsors and no snowballing.

Second tier RL has gone from attracting 2,405 fans to 1.,020 over 17 years. Take out Fev and crowds will end up averaging 900. Interest is bombing year after year after year.....

Last year 11 of the 14 clubs gave up their independence.

In nearly 50 years of following this fantastic sport I've only seen one snowball which was the SKY contract to create Superleague that rescued top division crowds from 5543 to a high of 9431 whilst gifting the game tens of £Millions of pounds.

It's everything IMVHO.

football is now televised right down to the conference levels, Union has a TV deal for their second division. ....the driving force IMO is that they have pro teams at those levels, dont get me wrong I am not saying take money from SL to fund this, I would however like to see players who miss the cut pursue a pro career at a lower level, how this is funded is the big question. .....

[sweaty craiq]

I recall widnes v leigh 2nd game of the season with both clubs dreaming of sl around the millenium - near 7000 crowd that was bigger than most premiership ru games that day - where did we go wrong

[yipyee]

I recall widnes v leigh 2nd game of the season with both clubs dreaming of sl around the millenium - near 7000 crowd that was bigger than most premiership ru games that day - where did we go wrong

promoting widnes......

[roughyedspud]

I recall widnes v leigh 2nd game of the season with both clubs dreaming of sl around the millenium - near 7000 crowd that was bigger than most premiership ru games that day - where did we go wrong

 

we crushed ambition...

[The Parksider]

I recall widnes v leigh 2nd game of the season with both clubs dreaming of sl around the millenium - near 7000 crowd that was bigger than most premiership ru games that day - where did we go wrong

 

We accepted the SKY contract for Superleague and left the other clubs out in the cold.

 

We could have made a worse decision and rejected it and all be out in the cold.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Yes, Featherstone Rovers. On the basis that Mark Campbell, Feisal Nahaboo and the two other multi millionaire board members think they can. But perhaps you know better, maybe the aforementioned are just fools eh?

No they aren't fools and I've never suggested they are

 

Where do you think your club will draw its support from? Your club has a long tradition of being poorly supported even during periods of on field success.

 

You can have all multi millionaires on your board you want, but there is only so much money they can put in.

[Exiled Wiganer]

There's a lot of merit in what you say about Shaun Edwards, whose will to win was incredible and he certainly made the most of his talent when he was with Wigan. I have enormous admiration for Shaun.

But there is also a lot in the argument that, no matter how good you are, you are only as good as your team, as Shaun showed when he went to Bradford and London, where he couldn't repeat his heroics with Wigan.

In terms of natural ability I think Garry was a better player, and I suspect he would have won lots of trophies too if he had been part of Wigan's full-time squad in an era of part-time players. But we'll never know.

Garry played alongside players like Shaun, Bobbie Goulding, Andy Gregory and so on for Great Britain, and is entitled to give his opinion, both on them and on every other aspect of Rugby League. You may not like his opinion, but I'm glad he is prepared to give it, and I wish more current and former players would be prepared to speak out like he does.

There seems to be a Victorian millowner mentality among some people in Rugby League, whereby players should be seen but not heard, and should know their place.

I'm afraid that Garry isn't like that, and he calls it as he sees it.

Sorry if that's a bit much for you to take.

Given how much money I spend on products you sell, I'd have thought you'd be interested in how much "I can take". He's entitled to his opinion, he's entitled to slag off anyone and everyone. What puzzles me is his desperate need to do so. There are so many ways to make a point beyond - "listen kids while I tell you again how great I was and how rubbish everyone else was and is." It's sad and desperate. You can be a vocal critic of many things, and argue a case without doing so. I'd certainly read Hanley's views on how he was so much better because he genuinely was better, not some re write of history to suggest Schofield was in a different class from the likes of Edwards.

I hope you can handle my opinion.

[Ponterover]

Agree 100% quote of the week for me!!

 

I don't often like analogies, but the Supermarket.v.Corner shop is the closest one to Rugby League I can appreciate.

 

If the game has a portfolio of both 23 corner shops and 14 Supermarkets, where is every precious pound best invested???

 

Just to take your analogy a bit further:

 

Supermarkets are now investing heavily in Corner Shops (Tesco - One Stop, Sainsbury's - Local etc) and pulling money out of new Supermarkets.

 

Maybe RL needs to do the same to grow?

 

Just a thought.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Ponterover

[Griff]

theres no interest in the 2nd tier from tv (and sponsors,investors & and the drop in attendances) because of the lack on competition,ie lack of movement...clubs have stagnated...most clubs in the championship & champ1 won't have played for 6-7months by the time the new season starts...how the hell can clubs be expected to survive??

 

Actually, there's arguably more tv interest in the second tier than there was when we had promotion and relegation.

[Terry Mullaney]

I'm not sure they didn't back off when they could have touted for Wakefield or Bradford's place.

 

It seems they support the 3x8 option, if they are that rich they shouldn't be afraid of getting straight in with the big boys.

Now that would have been the actions of a fool. Why would they hurriedly want to join SL, totally unprepared with a below standard squad, when there's relegation for two clubs at the end of this season? Think about it Parky.

[gingerjon]

Union has a TV deal for their second division. ...

 

Yet another thing they've stolen from league.

[sweaty craiq]

We accepted the SKY contract for Superleague and left the other clubs out in the cold.

We could have made a worse decision and rejected it and all be out in the cold.

That game was in the SL era when the season started December and the GF was July or August

On a side note if exclusion continues the rest need to look at how to compete and moving the season is the first thing I would advocate for survival and creating an alternative product

[The Parksider]

On a side note if exclusion continues the rest need to look at how to compete and moving the season is the first thing I would advocate for survival and creating an alternative product

 

Your a fighter old lad..........

[Griff]

That game was in the SL era when the season started December and the GF was July or August

On a side note if exclusion continues the rest need to look at how to compete and moving the season is the first thing I would advocate for survival and creating an alternative product

 

God forbid ! According to the League Express poll, few wanted to watch in winter.

 

And alternative to what ?  We avoid the $uperleague season so that we can clash with soccer ?

 

There's no evidence that this would improve finances for clubs outside $uperleague.

[The Parksider]

Why would they hurriedly want to join SL, totally unprepared with a below standard squad.

 

Blimey Terry, all these years when a dozen Rovers fans have constantly told me daily for years they are such a great side that they could compete with the bottom half of SL.

 

I am pleased you have made that admission.

 

Championship clubs cannot attract professional players nor afford to pay them when they are stuck in the championship. You won't build an SL squad without being in it. You could have offered to replace Bradford for 2013 and you'd have got 2014 as well.

 

Rovers seem to want to go for 3x8. Doesn't smack of an ambition to be a big club that, maybe the problem is as I say, all the £Millions they have and the rules don't allow them to spend it....

[nadera78]

That game was in the SL era when the season started December and the GF was July or August

On a side note if exclusion continues the rest need to look at how to compete and moving the season is the first thing I would advocate for survival and creating an alternative product

The old APC did exactly that by moving to a Christmas start and being able to negotiate their own TV deals. It was a resounding failure on both counts and the clubs came back with their tails tucked firmly between their legs.

Few broadcasters / sponsors seem interested in SL, none are interested in tier two and below.

[Lobbygobbler]

We accepted the SKY contract for Superleague and left the other clubs out in the cold.

We could have made a worse decision and rejected it and all be out in the cold.

Near the millenium was 5 years after the sky contract. I was at the game Craiq mentioned. We took over 2k fans to Widnes. I was there

[Martyn Sadler]

Given how much money I spend on products you sell, I'd have thought you'd be interested in how much "I can take". He's entitled to his opinion, he's entitled to slag off anyone and everyone. What puzzles me is his desperate need to do so. There are so many ways to make a point beyond - "listen kids while I tell you again how great I was and how rubbish everyone else was and is." It's sad and desperate. You can be a vocal critic of many things, and argue a case without doing so. I'd certainly read Hanley's views on how he was so much better because he genuinely was better, not some re write of history to suggest Schofield was in a different class from the likes of Edwards.

I hope you can handle my opinion.

Not only can I handle your opinion, but I enjoy reading it.

 

The thing about former players who have reached the top is that they are all, with few exceptions, proud of their achievements and with a strong sense of their own self-worth.

 

In that sense the only difference between Schofield and many others is that he writes a column and they don't.

 

And don't forget that Schofield was capped 46 times for Great Britain, which is greater than any other player with the exception of Mick Sullivan.

 

He's surely entitled to think he wasn't a bad player.

 

At least you can't accuse him of false modesty.

[Amber Avenger]

Talking of Mr. Schofield, as someone who can usually take or leave his column, I have to say that this week’s instalment was actually really fascinating. It’s not often you get a genuine insight of someone’s thoughts as the exact moment he was taking on the defensive line of the best teams in the world and the decisions that have to be made in a split second.

[sweaty craiq]

The old APC did exactly that by moving to a Christmas start and being able to negotiate their own TV deals. It was a resounding failure on both counts and the clubs came back with their tails tucked firmly between their legs.

Few broadcasters / sponsors seem interested in SL, none are interested in tier two and below.

A few hypotheticals in my post, but the exclusion scenario must pose a huge threat to lower tier clubs with ambition so do they simply die, do they become feeders and die from within or do they create a new product?

In those options mine would be the latter, but let's hope those choices are not relevant

[Terry Mullaney]

Blimey Terry, all these years when a dozen Rovers fans have constantly told me daily for years they are such a great side that they could compete with the bottom half of SL.

 

I am pleased you have made that admission.

 

Championship clubs cannot attract professional players nor afford to pay them when they are stuck in the championship. You won't build an SL squad without being in it. You could have offered to replace Bradford for 2013 and you'd have got 2014 as well.

 

Rovers seem to want to go for 3x8. Doesn't smack of an ambition to be a big club that, maybe the problem is as I say, all the £Millions they have and the rules don't allow them to spend it....

I'm pretty sure Rovers did offer to take the place of one of the several SL basket cases in 2013 if you check back