The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Terry Mullaney]

Wakefield shouldn't represent the so called district we should have nothing to do with the district we should be back to Wakefield City Council . As for investment Wakefield needed it after the City centre being neglected for years compared to Leeds Huddersfield Barnsley. Anyway of to get the Wakefield Express tomorrow, surprised we don't have to share our local paper like some small towns out on a limb.

Trinity Forever

Love our club love our City

Don't forget to read the match report! Sorry, couldn't resist

Up The Rovers!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Terry Mullaney

[roughyedspud]

so.....what happened at the meeting?? was anything decided x

[The Parksider]

Why Wakefield? The District.....

 

Has over 20,000 fans prepared to pay to watch RL and can produce a home grown side to rival Wigan and Leeds.

 

So the game desperately needs a club in the Wakefield area to harness and build those resources in one place which can return success and profit.

 

As it is the Wakefield area has three useless clubs who have failed to win anything between them and have all been in the championship more than in the top four.

 

Petty rivalries are killing the game there, that's why we need one club in the Wakefield district, I don't care who it is, you clearly do Steve......

[The Parksider]

What people outside the WMDC need to understand is Wakefield, cas and Pontefract are 3 separate areas and people of Wakefield have no affiliation to cas or ponte.

 

Yes and Hunslet, Bramley and North Leeds are three separate areas as far as Rugby League goes too.

 

If your three go on going bust, getting relegated and drifting in the championship then thousands of new fans won't bother to watch failure, and all the best players will just go sign for Leeds Huddersfield and Hull. Once the diehard fans die out crowds can drop even further.

 

It's the historic affiliations that are creating this situation, nobody in Wakefield has an affinity to Leeds United as they are two separate cities??.

 

As long as this sort of argument succeeds the clubs will slowly sink into the very history that is dragging them down. Opening up SL to 24, many small clubs, will be a disaster, let's hope they don't do it today.

 

Derbies and administration all round.

Edited January 17, 2014 by The Parksider

[The Parksider]

 

Before we talk about mergers or preference of one club over another, maybe it would be useful to commission a  geographically study of Rugby League areas and its peoples by one of the northern Universities?  

 

I think we need a study of why strong Rugby League areas have been in decline for many years.

 

I remember Swinton and Salford going well, I remember Hunslet, Bramley and Leeds all going OK.

One day you may remember when Cas had a ground down Wheldon road, Wakefield used to be in Superleague and Featherstone had a rich owner but he walked away eventually.

 

If "fans" supported their clubs through the tough times fine, but they don't.

 

I don't suppose with respect diehards wish for anything other than their clubs survival as the club it always was no matter how low it sinks. But it gets down in time to a couple of hundred interested parties getting the begging buckets out.

 

You may think the Wakey area clubs are big clubs but so were Hunslet, Swinton and Oldham

[Trojan]

 

Petty rivalries are killing the game there, that's why we need one club in the Wakefield district, I don't care who it is, you clearly do Steve......

Aren't petty rivalries what the game is about? How about Leeds v Bradford? Isn't that fairly petty?  Wigan v Saints, again petty. Or can we substitute the word petty with the word derby?

Say some dictator figure came in and demanded mergers between the Wakefield Met sides, the Hull sides, the North Cheshire sides, who would then fill the gaps left? Surely not clubs from outside the "heartlands?"  How many times have we tried this, and how much money have we thrown at it, and how often has it failed?  What potential club owner in his right mind would invest in starting a new club from scratch with the current structure of no P&R?  His club doomed to play in the lower league until someone decreed they could have a go in SL?  Not an attractive business proposition.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Why do people continue to push their agenda to rid the game if things they don't like but others do to have more of the same?

Let's get rid of derbies, let's get rid of the dream, let's get rid of the danger of under-performing. Let's just passionless unmotivated robots playing every game every week. If that's your thing, fair enough. But I like to see a mix of the underdog, the local derby bragging rights AND big clubs meeting each other in games that will be considered bigger because they're rarer occurrences.

[Griff]

is that right ? They should move the cathedral .......... to ponte

 

Great idea !! We already have a bishop.

[gingerjon]

Wellsy4HullFC, on 17 Jan 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Why do people continue to push their agenda to rid the game if things they don't like but others do to have more of the same?

Let's get rid of derbies, let's get rid of the dream, let's get rid of the danger of under-performing. Let's just passionless unmotivated robots playing every game every week. If that's your thing, fair enough. But I like to see a mix of the underdog, the local derby bragging rights AND big clubs meeting each other in games that will be considered bigger because they're rarer occurrences.

That's excellent.

You haven't said how you're going to do it though.

Under 3x8 the big clubs will play each other more. Under 12 with 1 up and 1 down, they'll play each other ... the same or more. If we keep things the same they'll play each other the same.

[amm]

Last orders at the bar.....surely this thread will be closing soon (ish) 

 

Silly me, even when we get any announcements, we'll then move on to debating their merits

 

 

So...as you were

[gingerjon]

Last orders at the bar.....surely this thread will be closing soon (ish) 

 

That was a voluntary tackle.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

Don't forget to read the match report! Sorry, couldn't resist

Up The Rovers!

Are friendlies deemed important enough to deserve column inches

[roughyedspud]

does'nt a "chris joynt voluntary tackle" thread hold the world record for longest ever...lol

[Ackroman]

Has RL given birth to Frakenstein's baby yet?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ackroman

[amm]

Apparently, they don't meet with the Championship clubs until 3 Feb....so maybe nothing will be announced until after that?

 

I very much doubt any embargo will be honoured , as those 'in the know' are not renowned for holding their own water

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

Yes and Hunslet, Bramley and North Leeds are three separate areas as far as Rugby League goes too.

If your three go on going bust, getting relegated and drifting in the championship then thousands of new fans won't bother to watch failure, and all the best players will just go sign for Leeds Huddersfield and Hull. Once the diehard fans die out crowds can drop even further.

It's the historic affiliations that are creating this situation, nobody in Wakefield has an affinity to Leeds United as they are two separate cities??.

As long as this sort of argument succeeds the clubs will slowly sink into the very history that is dragging them down. Opening up SL to 24, many small clubs, will be a disaster, let's hope they don't do it today.

Derbies and administration all round.

Bramley and Hunslet are still in Leeds where as cas is not in Wakefield. Regarding Leeds United you are right a lot of people from Wakefield watch LUFC it only takes me 15mins to get to Elland Road it's Wakefields nearest pro football team but if Wakefield had a pro football team (I wish we would) I would have always watched them. If a merged RL team was forced on me replacing the team me and my family has watched for generations not even playing in my City, would I watch them? would I hell. Let's have P&R over a full season without moving the goal posts so we all know where we are and let clubs naturally find there level.

TRINITY FOREVER

Edited January 17, 2014 by WakefieldCityLoyal

[Terry Mullaney]

Why do people continue to push their agenda to rid the game if things they don't like but others do to have more of the same?

Let's get rid of derbies, let's get rid of the dream, let's get rid of the danger of under-performing. Let's just passionless unmotivated robots playing every game every week. If that's your thing, fair enough. But I like to see a mix of the underdog, the local derby bragging rights AND big clubs meeting each other in games that will be considered bigger because they're rarer occurrences.

Me too. If, for instance, Fev were to join SL alongside Cas and Wakey, it would be a massive shot in the arm for the game in the WMDC area, not the reverse. Why people want to rid the game of romance and variety to replace it with sterility is beyond me. A super league with the same ten teams ad infinitum? Can't think of anything more boring and where would future top class and international players come from if we only have eight English full time clubs? Edited January 17, 2014 by Terry Mullaney

[Terry Mullaney]

Are friendlies deemed important enough to deserve column inches

Regardless of the result it was fantastic to see Wakefield at Post a Office Rd again. Hope to see it more often in the not too distant future.

[The Parksider]

1. If Wakefield had a pro football team (I wish we would) I would have always watched them. If a merged RL team was forced on me replacing the team me and my family has watched for generations not even playing in my City, would I watch them? would I hell

2. Regarding Leeds United you are right a lot of people from Wakefield watch LUFC it only takes me 15mins to get to Elland Road it's Wakefields nearest pro football team....

1. It doesn't need a merged team. It needs a team playing out of Newmarket, fully funded to take on Hull, leeds, Wigan etc. attracting 10,000+

If the other 10,000 RL fans around your way aren't interested then fine, but heaven forbid such a strong area for RL ends up not being in Superleague at all and as it stands if they vote 3x8 none of the three will be in the true SL of the top eight.

Still you'll have the derbies to see you through like they do in Hull.

2. Thank you, maybe this will dispell the argument nobody from keighley watches bradford, nobody from leigh watches wigan, nobody from halifax watches bradford, their nearest professional Rugby league team.

Edited January 17, 2014 by The Parksider

[The Parksider]

Me too. If, for instance, Fev were to join SL alongside Cas and Wakey, it would be a massive shot in the arm for the game in the WMDC area, not the reverse. Why people want to rid the game of romance and replace it with sterility is beyond me.

Do you really think I want a ten club Superleague? I'd like romance, we get loads of it on here, people dreaming of rich men hauling their small clubs to the top of the league, and taking on the big boys.

But I came down to earth long ago.

If we go to 3x8 today NONE of your three clubs will be in the top eight. The one that went bust and lost another shedload of money, the one without any money, in debt and selling their best players off in their ramshackle ground, and the one propped up by a rich man, but devoid of a significant fan base.

It's no disrespect it's real world. The problem with the real world is if you are NOT in Superleague your crowds and your business just deteriorates.

Take Manchester if you like. belle Vue, Swinton, Salford. One died long ago, one may die this year, one was left for dead last year. these clubs had big crowds, these clubs won trophies, Broughton had the best junior set up in the league.

As it stands the Wakefield clubs are in danger of going this way. Would you find that romantic Terry??

[Terry Mullaney]

Do you really think I want a ten club Superleague? I'd like romance, we get loads of it on here, people dreaming of rich men hauling their small clubs to the top of the league, and taking on the big boys.But I came down to earth long ago.If we go to 3x8 today NONE of your three clubs will be in the top eight. The one that went bust and lost another shedload of money, the one without any money, in debt and selling their best players off in their ramshackle ground, and the one propped up by a rich man, but devoid of a significant fan base.It's no disrespect it's real world. The problem with the real world is if you are NOT in Superleague your crowds and your business just deteriorates.Take Manchester if you like. belle Vue, Swinton, Salford. One died long ago, one may die this year, one was left for dead last year. these clubs had big crowds, these clubs won trophies, Broughton had the best junior set up in the league.As it stands the Wakefield clubs are in danger of going this way. Would you find that romantic Terry??

Parky, the 8 is NOT the real SL, it is a seven week play off tournament at the end of the regular season of 23 games played by the SL clubs. The middle play off determines who will take part in the real SL the following year, read the RFL paper, it tells you in there.

A ten team SL would just be papering over the cracks, maybe the clubs and the RFL have finally realised the game has to live within its means and the proposed new structure is a well thought out step in that direction in my opinion. Meaningful games all season long, designed to capture the imagination and hence increase the numbers.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Terry Mullaney

[Dave T]

Last orders at the bar.....surely this thread will be closing soon (ish) 

 

Silly me, even when we get any announcements, we'll then move on to debating their merits

 

 

So...as you were

Aye, at that point we start again from the beginning! Can't wait! 

[redjonn]

Parky, the 8 is NOT the real SL, it is a seven week play off tournament at the end of the regular season of 23 games played by the SL clubs. The middle play off determines who will take part in the real SL the following year, read the RFL paper, it tells you in there.

A ten team SL would just be papering over the cracks, maybe the clubs and the RFL have finally realised the game has to live within its means and the proposed new structure is a well thought out step in that direction in my opinion. Meaningful games all season long, designed to capture the imagination and hence increase the numbers.

 

I guess that is where one major difference of opinion is and will have an opportunity to be tried if it goes to the structure being pushed by the RFL.

 

My view is that the games will not be more meaningful as there will be a distinct gap that will grow wider between the bottom 4 and top 8 over a period. All-be-it the bottom 4 may change occasionally. Plus I think repetition will be a big negative factor.

 

For me a 10 league structure will have more meaningful games with P&R and a reduced number of teams that can make the play-off (say top 4).

 

But we are rehearsing the same arguments and maybe now time to close the thread cause we are all repeating ourselves.

 

Never-the-less I have enjoyed the thread discussions.

Edited January 17, 2014 by redjonn

[JohnM]

Whatever the outcome, I will support it and make  the best of it . Already pledged to attend more games this coming season...starting with Hull FC V Les Cats

[Ponterover]

Have we got journos camped outside Red Hall, or whichever hotel the meeting is being held at?