The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Father Ted]

A season ticket will then only cover the eleven home games?

The rest will be pay on the gate.

The RFL obviously think that will help increase attendances.

Why are RL Fans so negative sometimes? Because the game is just so badly run, that's why!

This re-structure is an absolute dogs breakfast.

Ten years or so ago we had a 12 team SL with P & R. Eleven home games weren't enough to generate sufficient revenue to run a club. So they went to a 14 team SL with 13 home games.

Now we are back to 12 with P & R. OK the top four get home games the remainder play away from home so they will only have 11 home games in a season. Back where we started!

[DAZROVER1985]

Well, according to League 13 for example at the time of the last vote the players didn't know how the new structure was going to be financed, and no finance details have been included in any of the statements made by the RFL at any time.

im sure I'm just in hope that things like that have been thoroughly thought through because I would be in shock if such a big decision had been taken with it not been thought of, here's to hope and I guess faith in the people running the game for the greater good.

[Ponterover]

Proposals!  What good are proposals at this stage?  The finance should have been sorted, secured, defined, set in stone.  What if the finances aren't there once the nitty gritty is delved into?  How dumb will everyone look if there has to be another vote because the sport can't actually viably finance this structure?  And potentially that could happen because all there is are proposals, and then pretty vague ones at that. 

 

Incidentally, I know HOW the business I work for is financed.  In fact, I don't think I have ever worked in a place and NOT known how that business is financed.  What I don't know is the actual numbers, at least not when I have been working in the private sector.  I am sure I could have found out if the company was big enough but I never bothered.  Public sector finances have to be more transparent.

 

They were released months ago, I take it you didn't read the document

[Ponterover]

So have you promoted or relegated Workington Town and Whitehaven?

 

Sorry, just an assumption on my part.  No intention to offend.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

A season ticket will then only cover the eleven home games?

The rest will be pay on the gate.

The RFL obviously think that will help increase attendances.

I'd expect clubs to offer 1 season ticket for the league games and another season ticket for the expanded 8-team play-offs/leagues

[Saintslass]

They were released months ago, I take it you didn't read the document

You mean the document containing the proposals, which the clubs did not agree to accept at their meeting on Tuesday given that no agreement on finance was reached?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Saintslass

[Ponterover]

A season ticket will then only cover the eleven home games?

The rest will be pay on the gate.

The RFL obviously think that will help increase attendances.

Why are RL Fans so negative sometimes? Because the game is just so badly run, that's why!

This re-structure is an absolute dogs breakfast.

Ten years or so ago we had a 12 team SL with P & R. Eleven home games weren't enough to generate sufficient revenue to run a club. So they went to a 14 team SL with 13 home games.

Now we are back to 12 with P & R. OK the top four get home games the remainder play away from home so they will only have 11 home games in a season. Back where we started!

 

Why would the play offs be cash on the gate?

 

All clubs will be guaranteed at least 3 home play offs, which can be advance sold.  Some clubs will get 4. 

 

My current season ticket effectively gets me two free home games based on the cash price.  No reason why those clubs who get the 4th can't give this away as a bonus game on the season ticket.

[Padge]

jeopardy. jeopardy, its all about jeopardy

 

Love the way that word seems to be entering everyday RL usage ....

 

It's the old joke,

 

"where you off to with your suitcase" 

 

"I'm off to jeopardy"

 

"Where's that?"

 

"Not sure"

 

"Why are you going then"

 

"I'm unemployed"

 

"So"

 

"Just been on the news that there's 5,000 jobs in jeopardy"

[Ponterover]

You mean the document containing the proposals, which the clubs did not agree to accept at their meeting on Tuesday given that no agreement on finance was reached?

 

I think we are at cross purposes here.  Haven't the proposals just been adopted?

 

As for numbers, top 12 get Sky money as at present.  Top of champs get 600k, 2nd get 550k tapering down the further down the champs you go.  This was being discussed in October.  You claimed that no proposal on finance had ever been published, it's not true.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ponterover

[Saintslass]

im sure I'm just in hope that things like that have been thoroughly thought through because I would be in shock if such a big decision had been taken with it not been thought of, here's to hope and I guess faith in the people running the game for the greater good.

There is the difference between yourself and some others, and me.  I am not prepared to agree to anything without first knowing how it will be funded.  I don't have faith that the people running the game are doing so for the greater good. I read Lenaghan's statement last year, which dismissed the international scene and the Championships stating that only Superleague really mattered.  How could I trust someone with that mentality?  Yet he will have voted today too and who is to say what the other chairmen believe?  They never speak about it.  How can I trust people who are so lacking in transparency?

 

Incidentally, Dr Koukash has come out on Twitter and stated that he 'listened to the fans' and voted against this structure.  But he said that he supported the sport as a whole.

[Saintslass]

I think we are at cross purposes here.  Haven't the proposals just been adopted?

 

As for numbers, top 12 get Sky money as at present.  Top of champs get 600k, 2nd get 550k tapering down the further down the champs you go.  This was being discussed in October

No, and that's my point!  The financing talks did not reach agreement on Tuesday.  Today, the talks were about the structure: how many teams in the Superleague and which system of promotion and relegation would be adopted.

 

At least, that was my understanding following the report I read in one of the RL weeklies.  The first meeting on Tuesday, held in Huddersfield, was to discuss finance and governance.  The second meeting, today (Friday), held in St Helens, to discuss the league structure and vote on the number of teams in Superleague and which of the remaining two systems would be used (straightforward P&R or the daft system which the majority voted in favour of).

Edited January 17, 2014 by Saintslass

[Wellsy4HullFC]

A few details I'd like ironing out...

Top 8 - Will the points start again? Or will they carry over?

I think they should start again. The team in 7-8th might not mathematically be able to reach to the top 4 so it would be pointless them being there.

League Leaders - Will this get more recognition? More prize money? This would keep interest in the regular rounds going for the entire season.

Middle 8 - What will it be called? I'm guessing the top 8 will be called the SL Play-offs? So what will this be packaged as?

Will they have a play-off for the 4th spot between 4th and 5th? (Think I've read that somewhere).

Will you win something for topping this group? "The SL Cup" for example, or a sponsored League Cup? Another sponsorship opportunity.

Bottom 8 - Again, will the points carry over? Will this be the "Championship play-offs" or will it be considered a separate competition? It might as well be the new version of the Northern Rail Cup so at least there's some history there.

Relegation? How many?

Championship 1 - How many clubs? Currently at 9. Four extra from above shake up will take it to 13. Possibly a fifth if Toulouse are in. Then there's Coventry entering in 2015 as well as (apparently) Leicester Storm taking it to 16. How will this league be structured? North/South? A split? Round robin 30 games?

Lots more details to come out but it's exciting stuff. We can all expect impending doom if we wish, but I'm watching with a positive view and hoping it works out. I will talk it up, just like I talked up licensing and supported it when it first came in. That doesn't mean I thought it was better than the system at the time (didn't see a problem with P&R but always maintained licensing should be given a fair run). Licensing doesn't seem to have worked. A change was definitely needed. Whether this was the right one remains to be seen but I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Rugby league... A roller coaster ride both on and off the pitch!

[Keith T]

The figures for the top four Championship teams were: 1st - £650k; 2nd - £600k; 3rd - £550k and 4th - £500k, then there was a gap and a sliding scale for the other clubs.   The two relegated teams would also be getting parachute payments of several hundred thousand pounds as well.   

[sweaty craiq]

Imagine the importance of that 4 v 5 middle eight decider for SL, massive massive game

 

That split on money should see 6 full time clubs in sl2 minimum

[Keith T]

The leader of the SL2 after 22 games could end up with nothing.   How silly is that?    They and the 3 other clubs in the top four go on to play the four SL clubs to see who goes in to SL1 the following season.    Meanwhile the 5th down to 12th are playing off for (?) whatever they will call it or to decide which club gets relegated to the Championship the following year.    I asked this question of the RFL and was told that those clubs will be playing for a bigger prizemoney.

[Matt J]

I'm guessing here, but, I think this system is a temporary measure to try and bring the quality of the leagues closer together before moving onto a more traditional leafue structure.

The top 4 championship clubs playing Super League quality teams will be better for the game when the Championship clubs experience that top flight competition.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

This re-structure is an absolute dogs breakfast.

Ten years or so ago we had a 12 team SL with P & R. Eleven home games weren't enough to generate sufficient revenue to run a club. So they went to a 14 team SL with 13 home games.

Now we are back to 12 with P & R. OK the top four get home games the remainder play away from home so they will only have 11 home games in a season. Back where we started!

Err... 10 years ago we played more games in a season than we did now... 28 regular rounds.

So really, you're just making up a reason to moan now!

Why must clubs sell a season pass for 11 home games? Can't they sell a season pass for 14 home games and have the extra as a pay on the gate if necessary?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

The leader of the SL2 after 22 games could end up with nothing. How silly is that?

Won't they be deemed the winners of that competition after 22 rounds? Just like they would now but without the playoffs?

They will then have the opportunity to play for a spot in SL - something they didn't have before.

So no, it's not silly. They're getting more than they had before and it's just another flawed argument.

They and the 3 other clubs in the top four go on to play the four SL clubs to see who goes in to SL1 the following season.

...After the regular rounds, of which they will be the Champions of said competition (as they would be now if it wasn't decided by playoffs).

Meanwhile the 5th down to 12th are playing off for (?) whatever they will call it or to decide which club gets relegated to the Championship the following year. I asked this question of the RFL and was told that those clubs will be playing for a bigger prizemoney.

I'm guessing there will be some kind of trophy to win akin to the NRC. It would be stupid to just play not to finish bottom, I'd agree. But the detail hasn't been finalised yet so let's not make up reasons to moan. It's a bit cynical, don't you think!

[gingerjon]

A few details I'd like ironing out...

Top 8 - Will the points start again? Or will they carry over?

I think they should start again. The team in 7-8th might not mathematically be able to reach to the top 4 so it would be pointless them being there.

League Leaders - Will this get more recognition? More prize money? This would keep interest in the regular rounds going for the entire season.

Middle 8 - What will it be called? I'm guessing the top 8 will be called the SL Play-offs? So what will this be packaged as?

Will they have a play-off for the 4th spot between 4th and 5th? (Think I've read that somewhere).

Will you win something for topping this group? "The SL Cup" for example, or a sponsored League Cup? Another sponsorship opportunity.

Bottom 8 - Again, will the points carry over? Will this be the "Championship play-offs" or will it be considered a separate competition? It might as well be the new version of the Northern Rail Cup so at least there's some history there.

Relegation? How many?

Championship 1 - How many clubs? Currently at 9. Four extra from above shake up will take it to 13. Possibly a fifth if Toulouse are in. Then there's Coventry entering in 2015 as well as (apparently) Leicester Storm taking it to 16. How will this league be structured? North/South? A split? Round robin 30 games?

Lots more details to come out but it's exciting stuff. We can all expect impending doom if we wish, but I'm watching with a positive view and hoping it works out. I will talk it up, just like I talked up licensing and supported it when it first came in. That doesn't mean I thought it was better than the system at the time (didn't see a problem with P&R but always maintained licensing should be given a fair run). Licensing doesn't seem to have worked. A change was definitely needed. Whether this was the right one remains to be seen but I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Rugby league... A roller coaster ride both on and off the pitch!

Pretty much all of your questions are covered in the proposal doc linked a few pages back.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Pretty much all of your questions are covered in the proposal doc linked a few pages back.

Is that the one from last year? Because if it is, it could easily have changed by then.

[Ponterover]

Is that the one from last year? Because if it is, it could easily have changed by then.

 

Somebody has screenshotted a document that appears to be different on the Fev facebook page, can't seem to link to it, or find it on the RFL site though.  If anyone's a bit more tech savvy than me, it's also been tweeted by @RoversRadio

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ponterover

[gingerjon]

Is that the one from last year? Because if it is, it could easily have changed by then.

From September I think.

 

I'm hoping it hasn't changed too much otherwise we'll all know the RFL haven't even bothered sticking to their own fag packet thinking.

[Rascal Bongo Stork]

The leader of the SL2 after 22 games could end up with nothing. How silly is that? They and the 3 other clubs in the top four go on to play the four SL clubs to see who goes in to SL1 the following season. Meanwhile the 5th down to 12th are playing off for (?) whatever they will call it or to decide which club gets relegated to the Championship the following year. I asked this question of the RFL and was told that those clubs will be playing for a bigger prizemoney.

top of SL2 and ending up with nowt is no different from coming top of the Championship now & not winning the GF. But now they at least have the chance of promotion.

As for 5th-12th they'll be playing not to get relegated. I believe 2 of them will be.

I really don't think it's that complicated. It might not work but I'm happy to give it a go.

[Keith T]

I'm guessing there will be some kind of trophy to win akin to the NRC. It would be stupid to just play not to finish bottom, I'd agree. But the detail hasn't been finalised yet so let's not make up reasons to moan. It's a bit cynical, don't you think!

They will be playing for the Championship Shield (it's in the document they issued) and also to decide which team(s) get relegated to the Championship.   

[raceman]

Just trying to work this out, so in theory we could have 4 teams relegated from the original SL1 teams that start a season, with 4 SL2 clubs becoming SL1 clubs the following season? Am I reading this correctly?