The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Ackroman]

The clubs have relied on the structure of the sport for too long to generate interest, rather than their own momentum and ideas at attracting punters.

 

Since the main body of clubs now have an opportunity to rise and fall (rather than boom or bust) I hope to see clubs going at the marketing like hammer and tongs rather than using the 3x8 as a selling point because frankly licencing didn't sell itself, and I would argue Super League hasn't either, certainly not in the licencing period.

 

In conclusion the 3x8 isn't the be all and end all, it oils the wheels a bit better to sell, sell, sell at Championship level and for SL to get sponsorship and more TV interest. This IMO is where the measure of success should be, not whether 3x8 is "understandable".

[Jim from Oz]

I think the whole thing is utterly ludicrous and have lost a great deal of interest in following the English game ....

[gingerjon]

So unless something unexpected happens, as of 2015 the 24 teams in the Super League and Championship are going to split into three separate Finals Series each involving 8 teams.

 

Regardless of whether this is the right move for the game or not is debatable, however as it looks increasingly likely that it's going to occur, we should be looking to make the best of it and ensure that the way it is branded and promoted displays it in the best light possible.

 

One of these things is how we label everything below the top tier (both regular competition and finals series) so it just doesn't sound cheap and nasty or as something not worth playing for.  

 

Personally as the two competitions are now so much more inter-twined, I would actually like to see the top tier of competition renamed Super League Premiership, and the second tier the Super League Championship.  Two small tweaks, but straight away there is an association between the two, an it creates an opportunity to continue to extend the Super League brand.

 

Also considering it isn't unrealistic that between the two divisions in 2015 there will be teams in England, Wales (Crusaders) and France (Toulouse & Catalans), it helps in the selling of the 'European' element of the brand.  

 

I would also be leaning towards Championship 1 returning to the name National League for a number of reasons including as it will be pretty much a UK only competition (at least in the foreseeable future), it is pretty much completely separate from top 2 competitions in how they interact (no joint Finals Series, only standard traditional P&R) and that because I personally dislike the title 'Championship 1'...

 

For the Finals Series, I'd love to see below the top 8 which should continue to play for the Super League trophy, that these Finals are playing for trophies which are named in honour of some of the famous former British players in the game.  I would seriously dislike if we come out with tacky names like 'Super League 1' and 'Super League 2' trophies, or the Super Championship and Championship trophies.

 

As a fan, and I'd imagine it would be the same for the players, winning say the David Valentine Shield (Just a random pick) has an element more prestige than some soulless 'Tier 2 Cup'.

 

At least through this way it gives us an opportunity to recognise some more of the players who helped make this game great.

 

Anyway keen to hear what anyone else thinks...

 

I agree with your thinking here but I'm not sure I quite agree with the naming - right, can't think of better though.  From memory, the proprosal doc has the end of season titles as being:

 

Super League

Super League Qualifying Play Offs

Championship Shield

Championship 1

 

Which, like so much about how rugby league does things, just looks more random the lower you go.

[gingerjon]

The clubs have relied on the structure of the sport for too long to generate interest, rather than their own momentum and ideas at attracting punters.

 

Since the main body of clubs now have an opportunity to rise and fall (rather than boom or bust) I hope to see clubs going at the marketing like hammer and tongs rather than using the 3x8 as a selling point because frankly licencing didn't sell itself, and I would argue Super League hasn't either, certainly not in the licencing period.

 

In conclusion the 3x8 isn't the be all and end all, it oils the wheels a bit better to sell, sell, sell at Championship level and for SL to get sponsorship and more TV interest. This IMO is where the measure of success should be, not whether 3x8 is "understandable".

 

Whether 3x8 is understandable and bought into by the fans and armchair viewers at home will have a major influence on obtaining sponsorship and TV interest.

[gingerjon]

See, I've seen this suggested so many times but I don't understand why?

Why not just have a season ticket that covers all 14 games? History shows that people don't like paying on the gate in large numbers, and I doubt they'll be able to afford another chunk at the end of the season.

Having a season pass that covers at least 14 games (that's how many are guaranteed) will improve play off attendances, be a good selling point ("more games") and also stop the risk of small crowds at the lower-end play-offs.

If there's a split season pass, I guarantee the play off crowds will be awful all round, and I reckon the negative vibe from that decision (based on the crowds being low) could even be enough to kill off this format.

Season ticket for the season.

 

The extra games at the end need to be well-attended by people paying extra attendance fees.

 

It's one of the ways the RFL is 'guaranteeing' that this will increase income for the game.

 

If it's all covered on a season ticket then that won't happen.

[gingerjon]

Is it 2up 2down to the third division?

 

I think it's 1 up, 1 down.  The Championship 1 Grand Final winner goes up, whoever's bottom of the third 8 goes down.

[The Parksider]

You're wrong on that. Were the day to arrive that the RFL could afford to cut teams like Bradford or Wigan adrift then it would mean that RL had finally made huge gains so I would be pleased to see that, whilst naturally disappointed to see my club struggle.

 

Great point. When my club were refused promotion I was not angry because we had failed to crack division one three times and at that point we no longer were signing any good local talent, and money and fan wise we were miles off the pace and only had a year to take that chance we were not equipped to take.

 

What it is we are doing here is keeping the dream alive. It's two good seasons and sixteenth placed Sheffield Eagles can be playing Leeds and Wigan three times a season (boring?) for the Superleague title.

 

How many people dream the dream though? When Superleague started I am sure the 23 clubs shut out of Superleague still had their average crowds of 1,400 fans all thinking one day they could make it. 32,000 dreamers of which six clubs of the 23 are in Superleague today.

 

Today I don't think many clubs dream the dream at all. For many their ambition is survival. For some of the best Superleague clubs like Dewsbury and Batley they hold no such SL ambition. The  dream of Superleague isn't unanimous amongst Leigh, Fev and Fax fans either as some are pragmatists, and they learned to be so when their clubs failed badly in SL.

 

For me Featherstone need to try to live that dream to knock that on the head one way or another. After that the problem isn't worrying about "dreamers" as there can't be any more than a couple of thousand of them left. It's SL worrying about shutting the door on some of the failing SL clubs, and it's worrying about what shutting that door may do to accelerate the drop in attendances outside SL.

 

IMVHO nobody amongst the SL clubs or the RFL yet have the stomach to condemn as many as 27 fellow members to the wilderness. The clubs are all being given a chance - which may be their final chance- to show the "dream" can be realised. The big clubs will retain their Superleague, the others will have to show that it would be a bad decision to shut the door.

 

Things may improve with this structure, but if they deteriorate further I'd guess the big "8" in the Superleague castle, may then have to make the hardest decision they've had to make since 1895 as to whether to pull up the drawbridge, and who to hold a hand out to rescue before they leave all the others in the moat. I think Bradford may get that hand....

[philipw]

[quote name="Yakstorm" post="2865756" timestamp="1390016347"

 

Personally as the two competitions are now so much more inter-twined, I would actually like to see the top tier of competition renamed Super League Premiership, and the second tier the Super League Championship.  Two small tweaks, but straight away there is an association between the two, an it creates an opportunity to continue to extend the Super League brand.

Wasn't that part of IL and the rebel clubs issue? That they didn't want the 'Super League' brand being used by the lower division, as it might lowers the value of the 'brand'?

[JohnM]

it was voted out so I think that is the clearest message of it failing otherwise it would still be here

 

Sure it was voted out...but as a progressive development. Voting for something does not make the result right.

[The Parksider]

The extra games at the end need to be well-attended by people paying extra attendance fees.It's one of the ways the RFL is 'guaranteeing' that this will increase income for the game.If it's all covered on a season ticket then that won't happen.

 

That's a very interesting point

[roughyedspud]

have the players union commented on the number of games players are gonna have to play?

[petesmithfan]

How on earth do you know that our Poll doesn't give a fair view?

 

And I'm sorry, but I always reply.

 

It's odd to call it old ground when the clubs are debating it this week

Ok what is your circulation figure?  I suspect a very small percentage of the RL community.  There was a poll on here that saw the 3 x 8 come out top................ you do not quote that... why? 

 

Your are correct the clubs have been debating it, because THEY make the calls.  Debating it on here IS old ground.

Look you own  a paper, its not a big stretch to say that you obviously like to have your opinions heard and think that they are the best. 

You have NO REAL INFLUENCE  on this.

[Terry Mullaney]

The extra games at the end need to be well-attended by people paying extra attendance fees.

 

It's one of the ways the RFL is 'guaranteeing' that this will increase income for the game.

 

If it's all covered on a season ticket then that won't happen.

I think they're hoping for better gates all round through many more meaningful games. The early stages of the current convoluted play offs aren't very appealing whereas every game of the new style tournament should be vital. I think it will have the desired effect all round and I would definitely include it in the season ticket.

[EastLondonMike]

Personally i think theres too much negativity about this format for it to last, it not going to be perfect for everyone so there will always be dissenting voices and all anger is going to be directed at the RFL. By the end of 2015 they'll be increased calls to revert to something akin to what we have, if not sooner.

 

Its like the Magic weekend, too many selfish people weren't prepared to give it a fair go and were only really interested in bagging it for whatever failures it had.

 

I don't like this format at all, but its here and we have to see how it plays, but I'm hopeful it will be a success.

Edited January 18, 2014 by EastLondonMike

[The Parksider]

it was voted out so I think that is the clearest message of it failing......

 

How did it fail Daz? I can tell you.

 

They wanted to pick 14 strong clubs for Superleague and they found only five. They graded them "A".

 

Then dissapointingly they found another four who were not up to scratch but had a chance of improving.

They graded them "B" second rate.

 

After that everyone else was third rate or worse.

 

There is was nothing wrong at all with licensing, the problems were with the clubs.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Whether 3x8 is understandable and bought into by the fans and armchair viewers at home will have a major influence on obtaining sponsorship and TV interest.

Is it more difficult to understand than the play off system currently and previously?

I think this "complicated" argument is a bit of a red herring argument, and on the face of it a bit of an insult to the numeracy skills of the average person!

[Defender]

As usual the RFL don't listen to the fans with over 70% against this concept in a recent survey

[Copa]

Oh dear. Yet another NRL feeder comp. Maybe NRL clubs could offer support if a SL club wants to be one of their bevy of feeder clubs

[roughyedspud]

i think if the top 8 went straight to play offs instead of another 7 rounds...then everyone would be 100% behind it...

 

 

also im heearing season tickets are gonna be sold in 2 blocks...1 for the regular season then one for the 3x8 season...

[EastLondonMike]

some details via Jason Nethertons twitter

 

https://twitter.com/Jasnev16/status/424435671731032064/photo/1

 

might be slightly confusing for some.

[nec]

This ridiculous system will be humiliatingly dropped like a stone before the 2017 season. That is if it ever gets to the start line given the lack of agreement on finance.

[roughyedspud]

that clears up loads....so there isn't 7 extra rounds...just 7 FIXTURES that are the play offs...

 

 

right i can calmdown down

[gingerjon]

Did anyone actually bother to read the proposal document?

[Ponterover]

Did anyone actually bother to read the proposal document?

 

I did, repeatedly

[RLDave]

With Toulouse launching their SL 2015 bid, how would you fit them in now? Especially as two teams will have already been relegated, I suppose the only way you could do it is by relegating three teams.

Placing them back into the Championship would still mean someone unfairly losing a place.