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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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So if i've got this right,some people are saying its ok for wakefield to be in sl and constantly failing and going into admin cos they've got nothing to lose but fev shouldn't be allowed in because they're a cracking club thats well run,makes a profit and owns its own stadium and land?

 

 fev shouldn't be allowed in

 

Now you are making things up. Whoever said Featherstone Rovers "should not be allowed in"?

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What is so galling is its perpetuated by our own media.......... we hark on about national media not giving us a fair ride.  But our own RL press are continually decisive  and undermining.  They say they care and its their duty blah blah blah.  They could do much more to SELL the sport to different groups!  More stuff on players lifestyles, stuff that appeals to the younger fan.

I would like our Media to become the next big expansion area and bee more independent.   Instead of a couple of blokes in brighouse running lifestyle business off the back of our sport. 

 

There are some very good modern RL Jurnos out their, they are been held back bye their dinosaur editors.  And that is from the horses mouth so as to speak and why many are turning to creating web based media themselves.  We are on the cusp of a media revolution in League and the old guard no it !!!

 

 

Its a free werld. Wy not take up jernolism youself?  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

Edited by JohnM
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 fev shouldn't be allowed in

 

Now you are making things up. Whoever said Featherstone Rovers "should not be allowed in"?

 

I believe you'll find the first poster to say that was jpmc.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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so under P&R they were saved from relegation several times hmmmm sounds like licensing to me......

Completely wrong. It as p and r with standards and it just so happened that Dewsbury and Hunslet won the championships and both were denied promotion because of grounds or maybe financing I can't exactly remember but they didn't meet the standards so Huddersfield were saved from relegation.

eventually some team were deemed fit for promotion and Huddersfield were relegated. I can't remember which team went up to replace the Giants.

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No.  You said was the new system more complex than the old one.  Given that in the old one there were only two parts and that for six of the teams nothing happened once they didn't make the play offs obviously it's more complicated now.

 

But, just for you.  This is how the entire Super League season can be summed up:

 

At present, in Super League, fourteen teams play a twenty-seven round regular season.  At the end of this season eight teams qualify for the play-offs from which a champion is crowned.  The other six teams play no further matches.  The play-offs last for four weeks.  In each of the weeks two teams are eliminated (with those who finished highest in the table having a second chance, those who finished lower going home on a single defeat) until the fourth week when the surviving teams contest the grand final.

 

In the future, in Super League, twelve teams will play a twenty-three round regular season.  At the end of this season eight teams qualify for the play-offs from which a champion is crowned.  The other four teams join with the top four teams from the Championship.  The eight SL play-off teams play seven further league fixtures adding to their points they have already accumulated.  The top four sides receive the advantage of having four home games.  After these fixtures the top four contest for the title in a straightforward knock-out lasting two weeks.  The other Super League sides also play an additional seven fixtures with four of their matches being away from home.  Their points start over at this point.  At the end of this mini-league the top three teams automatically join SL for the following season whilst teams 4 and 5 in the table play a one-off game, the winner of which joins SL.

 

Like I've said, it's one of the geniuses of the new system that its response to the oft-stated belief that 8 from 14 devalues the play-offs is to move it to 8 from 12.

 

You forgot to include what will happen to the bottom 8 clubs in the Championship. A pretty much trophy-less existence for anyone outside the top 8 in SL it seems.

 

The big one-off game outside the SL will be the 3/4 place play-off in the 3x8. With the big prize of two-thirds of a SL season at stake. 

Edited by Scubby
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You forgot to include what will happen to the bottom 8 clubs in the Championship. A pretty much trophy-less existence for anyone outside the top 8 in SL.

 

I was told I was over-complicating it by including them so I was being fair and only comparing a Super League season now with a Super League season in 2015.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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So if i've got this right,some people are saying its ok for wakefield to be in sl and constantly failing and going into admin cos they've got nothing to lose but fev shouldn't be allowed in because they're a cracking club thats well run,makes a profit and owns its own stadium and land?

 

I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort.

 

The Fev Paranoia is kicking in.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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I have to say that the concept of each division effectively having its own Cup, whilst not being barred from winning a Cup for a higher division (however unlikely that may be) was genius.

 

Sadly, the RFL does like to mess up great ideas.  Nines anyone?

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why was Leigh so peeved when their application was knocked back when they had gone to so much trouble to build a stadium?

Why have fev dismantled a stand and re-build it....

I may need to point this out to you, or you may be playing dumb.....but championship clubs improved their grounds to be eligible for SL....

therefore as a result of licencing championship clubs raised their game! Built new stadia.....

How do you explain Castleford and Bradford's stadia then and St Helens for 10 years until Langtree was built.?

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Investors/donors/people who pump money in sports clubs

 

There's a big difference between investors and donors.

 

Investors want their money back - with a little bit extra.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Sadly, the RFL does like to mess up great ideas.  Nines anyone?

 

No one would want to go out on a summer evening and see youth/reserve players play in a festival type atmosphere.

 

No one.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort.

 

The Fev Paranoia is kicking in.

 

Symptomatic of the "Who's tha think tha's looking at?" attitude on the Fev branch of the forum.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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No one would want to go out on a summer evening and see youth/reserve players play in a festival type atmosphere.

 

No one.

 

Yeah, nice idea if the best players are on show.

 

But they never are.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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**applause**

 

I really wonder why people hang around here if they hate the oppressive moderation so much...  If I had all my posts deleted on a forum and received repeated warnings for being all nice and polite then I'd not be here for long.

 

There are some seriously bitter people out there...

 

There must be something in the water around Featherstone way, they are all paranoid, the whole lot of them.

 

I'd just like to say that the mods on here have always been fair, and I've had run ins in the past, but I have never felt that the mods have been nothing but even handed and sensible.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Yeah, nice idea if the best players are on show.

 

But they never are.

 

They don't need to be and you shouldn't expect or want them to be.

 

This is a conversation for a different day but I quite like how the RU lot have managed to make their pre-season 7s a 'thing' that balances fun and seriousness and plays to full houses and is on TV.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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No. You said was the new system more complex than the old one. Given that in the old one there were only two parts and that for six of the teams nothing happened once they didn't make the play offs obviously it's more complicated now.

Err, I'm pretty sure I said the new system is less complicated than the current system?

If I summarised it the way you did, I could just say:

New system - top 8 after 23 rounds play off to be champions. Bottom 4 play off with top 4 of the next tier to be promoted.

Old system - top 8 after 27 rounds play off to be champions. No relegation.

Seems more complicated when you talk about the relegation system. But considering there is no relegation, anything is more complicated than nothing. Not difficult to comprehend!

If you explain the top 8 playoff of each system, the new system is by far the least complicated.

But, just for you. This is how the entire Super League season can be summed up:

At present, in Super League, fourteen teams play a twenty-seven round regular season. At the end of this season eight teams qualify for the play-offs from which a champion is crowned. The other six teams play no further matches. The play-offs last for four weeks. In each of the weeks two teams are eliminated (with those who finished highest in the table having a second chance, those who finished lower going home on a single defeat) until the fourth week when the surviving teams contest the grand final.

That doesn't even half explain what happens in those four weeks. Again, you're the one claiming complexity of the new system, but you still have failed to explain completely the current play offs.

This is my point exactly.

In the future, in Super League, twelve teams will play a twenty-three round regular season. At the end of this season eight teams qualify for the play-offs from which a champion is crowned. The other four teams join with the top four teams from the Championship. The eight SL play-off teams play seven further league fixtures adding to their points they have already accumulated. The top four sides receive the advantage of having four home games. After these fixtures the top four contest for the title in a straightforward knock-out lasting two weeks. The other Super League sides also play an additional seven fixtures with four of their matches being away from home. Their points start over at this point. At the end of this mini-league the top three teams automatically join SL for the following season whilst teams 4 and 5 in the table play a one-off game, the winner of which joins SL.

Here, you have attempted to explain a bit more in detail, yet have chosen to hide the detail of the last system as to show it being less complex.

I'll add the bits you forgot to mention:

New system:

After 23 rounds, the top 8 play off. They have 7 games against each other in a round robin. The top four then go into a two week straight knock out to determine the champions.

Old system:

After 27 rounds, the top 8 play off. The top four play off in week one to determine who goes to week three, with the losers going into week two. The next four play in elimination games to qualify for week two. They then play the losers of the top for in week two. The winners then go to week three in a straight knockout to the final (with games determined by a club call). All games before that are determined on "highest ranked vs lowest ranked".

It is ridiculously complicated, and I know many many casual fans that still don't understand it.

Like I've said, it's one of the geniuses of the new system that its response to the oft-stated belief that 8 from 14 devalues the play-offs is to move it to 8 from 12.

It's an interesting take on it, but I think the lack of incentive to finish higher in the table is what devalued it the most.
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...

 

Ah well.  You like the new system, I think it's a gimmicky waste of time that has taken up time and resources the RFL could better have used addressing the many, many problems the game faces.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Do you honestly think the current Top 8 is 'ridiculously complicated'?

 

Honestly?

 

I mean, it's a useless system (being 8 from 14 and not giving enough reward to higher placed teams) and club call is a pointless gimmick but it's a pretty easy system to follow.

Edited by gingerjon

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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does anyone feel that despite all the championship clubs seemingly falling over themselves to embrace the 3/8 s system, it will make promotion to super league a lot harder than a simple one up one down system. That everyone would understand and give a championship clubs a straight forward route to sl rather than just a chance to play a few sl clubs at the end of a hard season. I can't see anything other than the rare upset as in the c.c., over 7 games it will be very hard for part time to beat full time!

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does anyone feel that despite all the championship clubs seemingly falling over themselves to embrace the 3/8 s system, it will make promotion to super league a lot harder than a simple one up one down system. That everyone would understand and give a championship clubs a straight forward route to sl rather than just a chance to play a few sl clubs at the end of a hard season. I can't see anything other than the rare upset as in the c.c., over 7 games it will be very hard for part time to beat full time!

 

I think you're right, straight forward P&R would make promotion much easier.  But it would do the game a dis service.  Under 3x8 only a club that has demonstrated it can beat the worst SL clubs in the play off will go up. 

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does anyone feel that despite all the championship clubs seemingly falling over themselves to embrace the 3/8 s system, it will make promotion to super league a lot harder than a simple one up one down system. That everyone would understand and give a championship clubs a straight forward route to sl rather than just a chance to play a few sl clubs at the end of a hard season. I can't see anything other than the rare upset as in the c.c., over 7 games it will be very hard for part time to beat full time!

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how it pans out. 4 teams with salary caps of 1.85 million vs 4 teams with salary caps of 900k doesn't quite seem fair. But then after reading the salary cap details both teams could in fact be paying squads far more than this within the rules. I agree it could well end up without any teams ever getting promoted. But also I don't think there are 12 really strong clubs who can all fend off the threat of losing to these lower teams.

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Ah well. You like the new system, I think it's a gimmicky waste of time that has taken up time and resources the RFL could better have used addressing the many, many problems the game faces.

By getting rid of the licensing process, they will have freed up a lot of time to address the rest of the problems the game faces.
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