The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[The Parksider]

My views on this are that this will be in play for about 3 years, during that time I expect 20 clubs to become full time (Toulouse and a welsh club in that number), and will have had 2/3 years to tune the back office/academies etc. At that point we change to two full time tens with straight p&r, what we should have done now but I can understand why we haven't

 

I can appreciate that two tens, full time with well run academies, with P & R between including Toulouse and Wales is just about exactly what the game needs to aim for.

 

Three things:-

 

1. Your being as mean to the 19 clubs shut out forever on this plan as the current 14 SL clubs are being mean to your club?

 

2. A bigger and better TV deal may be in the offing as revealed today, However your plan would require the current deal being tripled.

 

3. Only four SL academies are up to scratch. How do we find the players and staff to revitalise another 16?

 

Unless you see another way of financing/arranging it?

Edited January 20, 2014 by The Parksider

[GaryO]

I have posed the question on this thread 3 times “why are the supporters of the teams in the lower echelons of SL afraid of the new system” It is quite obvious from some of the more vociferous comments placed by the supporters of these clubs that there is a fear factor in entering a 7 game play off against clubs from a “sub standard” competition.

 

I am a supporter of one of the 4 clubs of the Championship that is expected to be in the mix, and as such I welcome the opportunity of our players testing themselves in this format with the ultimate prize to take, if successful.

 

Furthermore, I can only foresee that it will also be good for SL, this coming season should see some interesting games to avoid the last two spots (if that is the way of demotion from the top 14 to 12), and in the next season surely no one will want to finish outside the top 8, so that should keep the intensity of the SL till the end of season instead of some of the totally banal games that have been served up when there was no fear of relegation.

 

As some have suggested, the middle 8 of the first 3x8 series should consist of 6 of this seasons present SL sides and that leaves only 2 other places up for grabs from the present Championship, the odds are in favour of no change from the now incumbents of SL to still to be competing in SL at the on set of the 2016 season.

 

So in MHO, this format improves the quality of SL, by bringing more meaning which means more intensity to games, it also brings a new vigour, expectation and hope to those of the Championship that desire it, As I stated at the beginning I have asked the question what is the fear of this format, I never got any answers then, and I don’t expect any now. 

[yipyee]

Cheers John

Just so it's public I apologies to the mods for suggesting censorship on this forum.

I also apologies to other memebers for derailing the thread.

I do think I've had a point in the past but do appreciate that the mods work hard to ensure that the forum is fair and fun for all.

Looking forward to the RL future and proper RL debates.

Cheers Ian

 

 

This post strikes me of 1984 (George Orwell).....

 

Will you now disappear for ever......

[yipyee]

My views on this are that this will be in play for about 3 years, during that time I expect 20 clubs to become full time (Toulouse and a welsh club in that number), and will have had 2/3 years to tune the back office/academies etc. At that point we change to two full time tens with straight p&r, what we should have done now but I can understand why we haven't

 

Then we will wake up and eat our cornflakes....

[yipyee]

I have posed the question on this thread 3 times “why are the supporters of the teams in the lower echelons of SL afraid of the new system” It is quite obvious from some of the more vociferous comments placed by the supporters of these clubs that there is a fear factor in entering a 7 game play off against clubs from a “sub standard” competition.

 

I am a supporter of one of the 4 clubs of the Championship that is expected to be in the mix, and as such I welcome the opportunity of our players testing themselves in this format with the ultimate prize to take, if successful.

 

Furthermore, I can only foresee that it will also be good for SL, this coming season should see some interesting games to avoid the last two spots (if that is the way of demotion from the top 14 to 12), and in the next season surely no one will want to finish outside the top 8, so that should keep the intensity of the SL till the end of season instead of some of the totally banal games that have been served up when there was no fear of relegation.

 

As some have suggested, the middle 8 of the first 3x8 series should consist of 6 of this seasons present SL sides and that leaves only 2 other places up for grabs from the present Championship, the odds are in favour of no change from the now incumbents of SL to still to be competing in SL at the on set of the 2016 season.

 

So in MHO, this format improves the quality of SL, by bringing more meaning which means more intensity to games, it also brings a new vigour, expectation and hope to those of the Championship that desire it, As I stated at the beginning I have asked the question what is the fear of this format, I never got any answers then, and I don’t expect any now. 

 

So to clarify a current championship club will need to be in the top 4 of their league which will now contain 2 SL clubs....they will then need to perform at a higher standard for 7 weeks and try to finish in the top 4...

 

only 4th wont be good enough because they will then have to win a playoff game against the SL side they are displacing....

 

Now with the 2 current championship clubs 'moving up a level' it will definitely increase intensity for them if they can keep the score below 50.... I don't see the benefit for SL......other than there will be meaningful games......

[DAZROVER1985]

So to clarify a current championship club will need to be in the top 4 of their league which will now contain 2 SL clubs....they will then need to perform at a higher standard for 7 weeks and try to finish in the top 4...

only 4th wont be good enough because they will then have to win a playoff game against the SL side they are displacing....

Now with the 2 current championship clubs 'moving up a level' it will definitely increase intensity for them if they can keep the score below 50.... I don't see the benefit for SL......other than there will be meaningful games......

providing the team finishing 5th is a super league team

[League Express]

League Express editorial, 20th Jan 2014

Is peace breaking out?

http://www.totalrl.com/web/peace-breaking/

(Online poll: How do you feel about the RFL's 2x12 & 3x8 plan to restructure the leagues in 2015?)

 

[Griff]

My views on this are that this will be in play for about 3 years, during that time I expect 20 clubs to become full time (Toulouse and a welsh club in that number), and will have had 2/3 years to tune the back office/academies etc. At that point we change to two full time tens with straight p&r, what we should have done now but I can understand why we haven't

 

........and an Emergency Food Bank for the players to dip into.

[sweaty craiq]

I can appreciate that two tens, full time with well run academies, with P & R between including Toulouse and Wales is just about exactly what the game needs to aim for.

 

Three things:-

 

1. Your being as mean to the 19 clubs shut out forever on this plan as the current 14 SL clubs are being mean to your club?

 

2. A bigger and better TV deal may be in the offing as revealed today, However your plan would require the current deal being tripled.

 

3. Only four SL academies are up to scratch. How do we find the players and staff to revitalise another 16?

 

Unless you see another way of financing/arranging it?

 

1. I would hope we can go 10/12 then 12/12 if we have sufficient clubs that can come to the table, we may even get more than 20 FT clubs by year 3

2. No it wouldn't, £19m per season and you have 1.2m and 700k more if we can secure a french tv deal

4. Isn't that a shocking stat after 6 years of franchising, things must get better

[sweaty craiq]

League Express editorial, 20th Jan 2014

Is peace breaking out?

http://www.totalrl.com/web/peace-breaking/

(Online poll: How do you feel about the RFL's 2x12 & 3x8 plan to restructure the leagues in 2015?)

 

 

A better poll question would have been 'is the new proposal better than the licencing we currently have?' My personal preference being 2x10, then 2x12/3x8, then straight p&r, then licencing - so how do I answer the question?

[JohnM]

1. I would hope we can go 10/12 then 12/12 if we have sufficient clubs that can come to the table, we may even get more than 20 FT clubs by year 3

2. No it wouldn't, £19m per season and you have 1.2m and 700k more if we can secure a french tv deal

4. Isn't that a shocking stat after 6 years of franchising, things must get better

 

4. Isn't that a shocking stat after 6 years of franchising, things must get better

 

Not at all.   Things can always get better and its good that the game wants to move forward.  Just a shame that that it hasn't actually opted for moving on from licensing to franchising.

[The 4 of Us]

Not suggesting Denis Betts takes his pearls of wisdom from this forum but according to my lovely copy of LE he is quoted as saying after yesterday's game;

"How you police licensing, that is the problem. If you set out minimum criteria and then you don't stick to it then it's not licensing that failed, it's the way you work it".

Nuff said!

[GaryO]

So to clarify a current championship club will need to be in the top 4 of their league which will now contain 2 SL clubs....they will then need to perform at a higher standard for 7 weeks and try to finish in the top 4...

 

only 4th wont be good enough because they will then have to win a playoff game against the SL side they are displacing....

 

Now with the 2 current championship clubs 'moving up a level' it will definitely increase intensity for them if they can keep the score below 50.... I don't see the benefit for SL......other than there will be meaningful games......

 

So in your expert view no promotion deemed feasible by any team not at this time plying their trade in SL, and if one does manage to escape the net and wriggle through to SL, then they will get hammered each and every week by at least 50+

 

As I questioned what are the supporters of the expected survival fighters afraid off. You quite clearly state it is a non-contest.

 

You end your post with a classic statement "I don't see the benefit for SL......other than there will be meaningful games......"  as I stated more meaningful games means more intensity means better competition, but it seems Sir this is completely left field to you, it is quite obvious you do not want to see a better standard league structure in SL as this may impact your teams survival.

 

Admit it and stop hiding behind what you have been saying for a few weeks now in respect of for the good of the game your real objective is SL or nothing for your club, incidentals like improving League Intensity just does not count. 

[John Drake]

A better poll question would have been 'is the new proposal better than the licencing we currently have?' My personal preference being 2x10, then 2x12/3x8, then straight p&r, then licencing - so how do I answer the question?

 

Just answer it honestly: how do you feel about the system we're actually getting. Glad, sad, or something in between. It's not a question about which system you'd prefer. If you asked 100 people which league structure they'd prefer, you'd get 100 different answers, as this thread has illustrated. But 2x12, 3x8 is what we're getting, so the question is about that and that alone.

 

There's no obligation on anyone to vote in the poll at all. It's not binding on anything, as Peter Snow used to say on election night about his swingometer, it's just a bit of fun really.

[gingerjon]

Not suggesting Denis Betts takes his pearls of wisdom from this forum but according to my lovely copy of LE he is quoted as saying after yesterday's game;

"How you police licensing, that is the problem. If you set out minimum criteria and then you don't stick to it then it's not licensing that failed, it's the way you work it".

Nuff said!

 

That is about as good a summary of why licencing didn't work as I can think of.  The lack of transparency and the woeful management of it.

 

But it's all fine now because the RFL have committed to lower standards and less monitoring.

[GaryO]

League Express editorial, 20th Jan 2014

Is peace breaking out?

http://www.totalrl.com/web/peace-breaking/

(Online poll: How do you feel about the RFL's 2x12 & 3x8 plan to restructure the leagues in 2015?)

 

 

Just answer it honestly: how do you feel about the system we're actually getting. Glad, sad, or something in between. It's not a question about which system you'd prefer. If you asked 100 people which league structure they'd prefer, you'd get 100 different answers, as this thread has illustrated. But 2x12, 3x8 is what we're getting, so the question is about that and that alone.

 

There's no obligation on anyone to vote in the poll at all. It's not binding on anything, as Peter Snow used to say on election night about his swingometer, it's just a bit of fun really.

I notice the editorial is by LE it has no author.

 

May I suggest it was penned by Peter Mandleson, classic spin reporting. 

 

Seemed best to use a political analogy, as with Mr Chaimberlain and Mr. Snow?

[gingerjon]

The only problem I have with the poll, incidentally, is that it seems to take multiple votes?

[John Drake]

I notice the editorial is by LE it has no author.

 

May I suggest it was penned by Peter Mandleson, classic spin reporting. 

 

Seemed best to use a political analogy, as with Mr Chaimberlain and Mr. Snow?

 

Do any newspaper editorials have a named author on them? It's an editorial, not a column.

[JohnM]

it seems to take multiple votes

 

Does it? Well, in that case......!

Edited January 20, 2014 by JohnM

[Scubby]

Can the RFL make the Championship clubs go full-time or can everyone (except maybe Featherstone and the 2 demoted SL clubs) just take the money, say "thanks very much" and keep going as per normal?

 

 

[JohnM]

Do any newspaper editorials have a named author on them? It's an editorial, not a column.

 

John Drake earlier today....

 

[John Drake]

The only problem I have with the poll, incidentally, is that it seems to take multiple votes?

 

Oops! Not any more.

[John Drake]

John Drake earlier today....

 

 

That's me most days!

[Ponterover]

Can the RFL make the Championship clubs go full-time or can everyone (except maybe Featherstone and the 2 demoted SL clubs) just take the money, say "thanks very much" and keep going as per normal?

 

I guess the clubs can spend it how they choose.  Although if they don't invest at least some of the money in the playing budget, they will quickly find that next year, they won't get as much due to the tapering off of the distribution, which is based on league position.

[GaryO]

Do any newspaper editorials have a named author on them? It's an editorial, not a column.

 

Please John, If I want a newspaper to give me a different view from Conservative, I will read the Mirror etc, etc.

 

The editorial is belittling of the proposed system, it is very anti the proposed system, to use your (LE) terminology it's like a Party Political Broadcast, but only allow one party to spout then have a vote on it, C'mon.

 

For many many years - well over 40, I could not wait for Thursday to come around so I could buy my Rugby Leaguer, then it changed and was published on Monday then it became LE, and I am sorry to say I considered it nosedived, it no longer gave open minded views, but "I will tell you how it is", attitude. I prefer facts and being allowed to make my own mind up.