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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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Maybe Wood and Rimmer have done a costing exercise and informed the "rebels" the true cost of employing all your own staff and administration costs, match officials costs, etc, that comes out of the RFL's funds, and they have had a re-think!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

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Maybe Wood and Rimmer have done a costing exercise and informed the "rebels" the true cost of employing all your own staff and administration costs, match officials costs, etc, that comes out of the RFL's funds, and they have had a re-think!!!

Almost all of the RFL's money is generated by SL though. Sport England funding is for development and national teams. What other sources of income do the RFL have?

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Maybe Wood and Rimmer have done a costing exercise and informed the "rebels" the true cost of employing all your own staff and administration costs, match officials costs, etc, that comes out of the RFL's funds, and they have had a re-think!!!

Yes, that won't be peanuts Keith

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I don't think they have changed their minds on the system and they didn't allow it go through, they were narrowly out voted so have to accept it. However I do think its likely there's a sweetener on the horizon which has caused them to back off a little regarding governance and finance.

According to one of the RL papers today Sky could have some opposition for the broadcasting rights and lucrative sponsor partners are apparently lined up so maybe they've had the rug pulled from under them. All speculation but I'd be shocked if the new format doesn't get the funding needed to make it work to its full potential.

 

I tend to agree with that, I don't think they changed their minds either, and i don't doubt for one second that if they had wanted , they could have brought pressure to bear in the right places, so  I don't really see what they have to gain other than as is being said, a large Carrot of some kind.

 

It would be nice if some serious competition came along for Sky, The thing is no one has ever shown any interest before, but maybe Sky are going to up their money, There are a few things about Sky i don't like, but what i do like is , They have plowed a lot of money into League, It was in a sorry state when they came along.

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Almost all of the RFL's money is generated by SL though. Sport England funding is for development and national teams. What other sources of income do the RFL have?

 

Thats how i see it as well. I think as a last resort ( so to speak )  Sl could run itself, I believe it to be a business, as well as a sport, and they have top business people now.   Without SL the RFL would be in nowhere land

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I tend to agree with that, I don't think they changed their minds either, and i don't doubt for one second that if they had wanted , they could have brought pressure to bear in the right places, so I don't really see what they have to gain other than as is being said, a large Carrot of some kind.

It would be nice if some serious competition came along for Sky, The thing is no one has ever shown any interest before, but maybe Sky are going to up their money, There are a few things about Sky i don't like, but what i do like is , They have plowed a lot of money into League, It was in a sorry state when they came along.

i would hope sky will up there funding now the structure changes are going to happen, because as things were sky have demoted rugby league from prime time weekend viewing to a Thursday night filler slot. So if changes were not made you would of expected sky to be lowering there funding not upping it.
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i would hope sky will up there funding now the structure changes are going to happen, because as things were sky have demoted rugby league from prime time weekend viewing to a Thursday night filler slot. So if changes were not made you would of expected sky to be lowering there funding not upping it.

 

The TV contract for Super League isn't up for renewal until the end of 2016.  It's not going up or down until then.

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The TV contract for Super League isn't up for renewal until the end of 2016.  It's not going up or down until then.

 

Sky have re-negotiated mid-contract before when we changed structure. They negotiated it down.

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Sky have re-negotiated mid-contract before when we changed structure. They negotiated it down.

 

That is a fair point.

 

I doubt that will happen but they're hardly likely to come back before the end of the contract and go, "You know, you guys are awesome. Here's another £10m."

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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It may be a case of the potential broadcaster(s)really seeing the outstanding merits of this particular system and as such are willing to battle for the rights to pay handsomely for it to be implemented.

 

It's reported to be the case that potential broadcasters - plural - will bid against each other for the rights to  screen Rugby League 2016.

 

IMVHO it is wishful thinking with respect Terry to believe the broadcasters want RL because of the proposed jeapordy element. It interests them yes, but there's no evidence they have looked into the detail.

 

You do the Rugby League World Cup and it's tremendous successes a great dis-service by suggesting second tier club RL is the factor stimulating more than one Broadcaster to now consider taking the game.

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You're expecting SL clubs, who we all know need every penny of central funding they can get their hands on, to look at the GBP2.6million saved by dumping 2 clubs and willingly vote to hand that money over to Championship clubs? One or two might, as a way of hedging their bets in case of being relegated at the end of this year, but I can't see a majority doing it.

 

The reported politics is that the "Rebel" clubs may well want all the money for themselves, but at this point in time it's too close to the start of the season to start a massive row.

 

Lenigan, Pearson, Davey, Hudgell, Moran, Koucash and probably Gausch are going along with the decision because if they walked out again it would damage the game, and cause a major row because St.Helens under McManus and Leeds under Hetherington can't just be walked over and shuffled aside.

 

Starting a row now may even scare off new broadcasters and as with all these things, the major players in big business manoeuvrings don't take short term views. Five years is a short term business plan.

 

Wishful thinking they actually want 2x12=3x8. They tabled a 12 club SL with a biannual play off between bottom SL club(s) and Top CC club(s). That is what they wanted.

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I like this new format on paper but I'm slightly worried it might not turn out very well. If the 4 Champ teams in the middle 8 continuously end up getting beat by the 4 SL clubs, then the whole system will be a big waste of time. Hopefully that wont be the case though.

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I don't think they have changed their minds on the system and they didn't allow it go through, they were narrowly out voted so have to accept it. However I do think its likely there's a sweetener on the horizon which has caused them to back off a little regarding governance and finance.

According to one of the RL papers today Sky could have some opposition for the broadcasting rights and lucrative sponsor partners are apparently lined up so maybe they've had the rug pulled from under them. All speculation but I'd be shocked if the new format doesn't get the funding needed to make it work to its full potential.

 

The funding needed to make it work to it's full potential is something it won't get and that has never been suggested. Certainly giving the SL clubs £1,300,000 a season and CC clubs £90,000 a season would make the middle 8 an utter joke league full stop.

 

The format desperately needs the SL clubs to agree more funding, and the rebel SL clubs desperately need to have more of a say in running Superleague.

 

They have tabled a five man SL management team proposing three SL appointments i.e. CEO, Marketing Director and non-exec director. The RFL are to only have two appointments these being RFL chaorman and CEO.I make that 3-2 to Superleague

 

Work these things out for yourself but now is not the time to strike for the Superleague money men who populate the rebel camp, allow the tail to wag the dog, and the broadcasting deals to come on stream whilst in return getting control of the future.

 

The battle the Rebels are having may be lost this week and next, but they may just get in a position to win the war in a few years time. Don't worry Terry, If Nahaboo moves on yet again then you would not have made SL anyway. If he stays, opens his wallet and lines up with the Rebels, you may be in pole position.

Edited by The Parksider
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We couldn't have done because there were no clubs who met minimum standard to replace them. All four CC clubs didn't meet the fans criteria of 2,500, one club had a poor business plan, one club was in financial difficulties and another had £800,000 liabilities. Only two had fourth rate academies the RFL classed as "weak".

 

There cannot be a "strong licensing system" when only 4 clubs met the requirements in full. The reason clubs got away with being poor in Superleague was the replacements were even poorer. We seem to maintain the myth that the only reason clubs didn't improve themselves was that they were lazy and it just needed them to be "strongly managed".

They didn't need to replace them at all. They could have run the SL with 2 teams which is what they will now do anyway.

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It's reported to be the case that potential broadcasters - plural - will bid against each other for the rights to  screen Rugby League 2016.

 

IMVHO it is wishful thinking with respect Terry to believe the broadcasters want RL because of the proposed jeapordy element. It interests them yes, but there's no evidence they have looked into the detail.

 

You do the Rugby League World Cup and it's tremendous successes a great dis-service by suggesting second tier club RL is the factor stimulating more than one Broadcaster to now consider taking the game.

You spout on here like an expert. But you've done nothing. How dare you criticise someone who's done more for the game than probably anyone who posts on here.  If you think Sky give a toss about RL in this country apart from as a filler for soccer, you're living in cloud cuckoo land. You only have to look at their advertising to see which sports they really support, soccer, cricket, Union.  They treat us very shabbily IMO. When the World Cup was on their sports news studiously ignored it.  They don't do that with other sports.  TBH if there ever is another offer from another broadcaster, the RFL should snatch their hands off.

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It's reported to be the case that potential broadcasters - plural - will bid against each other for the rights to screen Rugby League 2016.

IMVHO it is wishful thinking with respect Terry to believe the broadcasters want RL because of the proposed jeapordy element. It interests them yes, but there's no evidence they have looked into the detail.

You do the Rugby League World Cup and it's tremendous successes a great dis-service by suggesting second tier club RL is the factor stimulating more than one Broadcaster to now consider taking the game.

I didn't say it was THE factor stimulating more than one broadcaster I said it may be a case of the potential broadcasters seeing the merits of this system and being willing to pay handsomely for it. And it isn't just about 2nd tier club rugby, the last time I looked, there was still a SL GF to aim for at Old Trafford as normal

It goes without saying that the World Cup has had a massively positive impact and will obviously be the main reason that Sky might have some competition at last.

Here's a quote from Martyn Sadler who says Nigel Wood had revealed the following... 'preliminary discussions suggested that there could be a very significant uplift in the amount of money paid under a new contract, with competition driving the price up considerably. And the broadcasters had expressed a liking for the proposals being put forward by the RFL'

I find it surprising that you, but maybe not so much Martyn Sadler, could actually believe that Sky and BT Vision won't have looked into the detail of the RFL's proposals before declaring their approval.

Edited by Terry Mullaney

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You spout on here like an expert.

 

So what do you want me to say back to you Tro?? Lets have a big personal row eh? I love you too much for that. It doesn't take an expert to actually read the reports on the happenings in the game and look at the facts and statistics that are provided, and take note of what the people who run the game are doing and saying.

 

That takes a "realist". Nobody special. That's me. As for the other side of the coin, the dreamers, well that's what sport is all about and I have plenty of dreams too. Takes all sorts to make a Rugby League world....

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Honest question. Are the third tier of 3x8 playing for any kind of trophy? If so, how would anyone have the cheek to celebrate it? If not, what are they playing for (other than the bottom 1/2 finishers)?

They are playing to avoid relegation to the 3rd tier. No different than current situation for non-SL clubs under licensing

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I didn't say it was THE factor stimulating more than one broadcaster I said it may be a case of the potential broadcasters seeing the merits of this system and being willing to pay handsomely for it.

 

Exactly, you said that the broadcasters may have looked at 2x12=3x8 and thought "we must have some of that lets pay a handsome sum to get it"..........

 

You never said anything about the RL World cup in your post at all. Not having a go Terry but I have no axe to grind here and some of the claims made to justify the changes are a bit outrageous.

 

Your asking me to believe that the reason new broadcasters are now looking to Rugby League isn't down to the fantastic RL world cup, despite the majority on here agreeing it can help the game kick on big time, but that it's about a second tier play off for promotion??

 

The two things are worlds apart mate. England.v.new Zealand at Wembley 2014 before 60,000 or whatever versus Feathertone.v.Wakefield 1998 CC grand final before 8,000.

 

The future isn't second division RL and play-offs that's the past.

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It's reported to be the case that potential broadcasters - plural - will bid against each other for the rights to  screen Rugby League 2016.

 

IMVHO it is wishful thinking with respect Terry to believe the broadcasters want RL because of the proposed jeapordy element. It interests them yes, but there's no evidence they have looked into the detail.

 

You do the Rugby League World Cup and it's tremendous successes a great dis-service by suggesting second tier club RL is the factor stimulating more than one Broadcaster to now consider taking the game.

it's interesting that you would even countenance the thought of more than one TV broadcaster being interested in RL. When I have suggested such as a source of extra revenue on this forum in the past you have been adamant in your denials of any such possible sources of new revenue. Sky, you insisted, would never increase their investment in RL rather they would likely reduce it. Have uou been travelling on the road to Damascus by any chance ?

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Exactly, you said that the broadcasters may have looked at 2x12=3x8 and thought "we must have some of that lets pay a handsome sum to get it"..........

You never said anything about the RL World cup in your post at all. Not having a go Terry but I have no axe to grind here and some of the claims made to justify the changes are a bit outrageous.

Your asking me to believe that the reason new broadcasters are now looking to Rugby League isn't down to the fantastic RL world cup, despite the majority on here agreeing it can help the game kick on big time, but that it's about a second tier play off for promotion??

The two things are worlds apart mate. England.v.new Zealand at Wembley 2014 before 60,000 or whatever versus Feathertone.v.Wakefield 1998 CC grand final before 8,000.

The future isn't second division RL and play-offs that's the past.

Have it your own way Parky, I've explained myself once. I've agreed with you the success of the World Cup is the main reason for Sky now having competition which you choose to ignore, I've pointed out that the pinnacle of the new system is the Old Trafford GF, not a 2nd tier play off and provided you with evidence from Nigel Wood via Martyn Sadler' column that potential broadcasters do fancy the RFL's system.

It's obvious that you're pretty reluctant to take on board what I'm actually saying so I'll waste no more time going round in circles.

Edited by Terry Mullaney

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it's interesting that you would even countenance the thought of more than one TV broadcaster being interested in RL. When I have suggested such as a source of extra revenue on this forum in the past you have been adamant in your denials of any such possible sources of new revenue.

 

Your point at the time, repeated a few times was that we should go ask SKY for more money mid-contract, and that the negotiators should have done more to get more money (when at that time only one party was interested). I felt that you were doing the negotiators a dis-service and that we had all we could get at the time.

 

Since then it appears the world cup AND 2x12=3x8 (just to give a nod to Terry as who knows he may be right) has excited things.

Edited by The Parksider
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This will be my last post on the subject, the negativity from the forum "experts" is starting to affect my mental health.

 

Rugby League is on the up, which I'm sure will be a disapointment to some of you miserable old sods.

 

We had an amazing world cup

 

We've got semi pro teams in places you couldn't have imagined 10 years ago, with hopefully 2 more to come.

 

We've got a structure that gives all clubs something to play for and room to grow.

 

We've got a title sponsor for both competitions now and they paid hard cash too.

 

We've got broadcasters competing for our rights for the first time ever.

 

 

But lets all have a moan and try to bring it down shall we?

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It may be a case of the potential broadcaster(s)really seeing the outstanding merits of this particular system and as such are willing to battle for the rights to pay handsomely for it to be implemented.

 

They'll have to look hard for any "outstanding merits".

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