The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[yipyee]

The pathway is there, true, in that promotion and relegation exists between the two divisions. But, the much heralded redistribution of funding stops about halfway down the second lot of 12 and doesn't enter tier 3 at all. All of the 'jeopardy' focus is on the sides inside the 24 so all the resources envisaged by this 'whole game solution' go there. The gap is going to get wider and wider.

And, like I've said before, this is a whole game solution that washes the RFL's hands of any responsibility or commitment to international development, expansion or taking positive action to sort out the community game - all the while whilst lowering the standards they expect their professional clubs to meet and telling them that they won't be monitoring them anyway.

P&R doesn't exist, ONLY R this year with a tournament for future years which once in a blue moon might result in a P.....I'm not holding my breath! !

[gingerjon]

P&R doesn't exist, ONLY R this year with a tournament for future years which once in a blue moon might result in a P.....I'm not holding my breath! !

 

This is between the third 8 and what is now Championship 1.

 

In the third 8, two teams go down.  From what is now Championship 1, two teams are promoted.

[yipyee]

This is between the third 8 and what is now Championship 1.

In the third 8, two teams go down. From what is now Championship 1, two teams are promoted.

ay??

No promotion to SL this year....2 down. ...

From next year a little tournament which will never see a team promoted! !!

At least under licencing 1 club was guaranteed to come up every 3 years!

[Celtic Rooster]

One way or another the RFL will get the teams that they want in Super league in Super league, one way or another. Personally, I don't watch Super League and I don't care what they do with the rest of the structure either. As long as I can watch Eccles Saturday and North Wales crusaders Sunday I will be ok, for now. Just wish they would scrap dual reg then leave the laws alone for a few years!

[Robin Evans]

At least under licencing 1 club was guaranteed to come up every 3 years!

no it wasn't.

[Steve Slater]

ay??

No promotion to SL this year....2 down. ...

From next year a little tournament which will never see a team promoted! !!

At least under licencing 1 club was guaranteed to come up every 3 years!

Have you read it correctly??? It's the not-so-super clubs that finish in the bottom 4 that will have to fight to avoid relegation, not the likes of the seemingly perennial top 6! Some SL clubs can't perform too well in the Cup when they've got 4 times the salary cap, and the advantage of the overseas quota. If they've only got twice the salary cap we will see one or two upsets!  

[yipyee]

Have you read it correctly??? It's the not-so-super clubs that finish in the bottom 4 that will have to fight to avoid relegation, not the likes of the seemingly perennial top 6! Some SL clubs can't perform too well in the Cup when they've got 4 times the salary cap, and the advantage of the overseas quota. If they've only got twice the salary cap we will see one or two upsets!

eye one or two.....but in this silly little tournament they will need a lot more than that! Even if they finish 4th they can be duped in the farcical million pound death match!!!

Load of tosh!

[yipyee]

no it wasn't.

oh yes it was (hes behind you) ;-)

[Robin Evans]

oh yes it was (hes behind you) ;-)

the first period of licencing had a guarantee.. i.e widnes up wakey down would have been the case but for the botty falling out of crusaders!

There were/are no subseqent guarantees that this would happen ad infinitum under licencing.

Mute point that's irrelevant now

[yipyee]

the first period of licencing had a guarantee.. i.e widnes up wakey down would have been the case but for the botty falling out of crusaders!

There were/are no subseqent guarantees that this would happen ad infinitum under licencing.

Mute point that's irrelevant now

 

You dont know this....as the record stands a championship club came up at each new licence renewal FACT...

 

Its interesting point though regarding Wakey.....IF and a big IF crusaders hadn't failed would licencing be seen as more successful for replacing a struggling side with a solid one......

[gingerjon]

ay??

No promotion to SL this year....2 down. ...

From next year a little tournament which will never see a team promoted! !!

At least under licencing 1 club was guaranteed to come up every 3 years!

 

The earliest a team currently in the Championship will be playing in Super League is 2016 is all we can say right now.

[keighley]

The earliest a team currently in the Championship will be playing in Super League is 2016 is all we can say right now.

 

In theory but don't bet your house on it. The deck is stacked in favour of the incumbents.

[gingerjon]

In theory but don't bet your house on it. The deck is stacked in favour of the incumbents.

 

Absolutely.  The only crack I can see is that I struggle to see London existing at the end of 2014 so a space opens up.

[keighley]

Absolutely.  The only crack I can see is that I struggle to see London existing at the end of 2014 so a space opens up.

 

They have Toulouse rubber stamped for that vacancy.

[gingerjon]

They have Toulouse rubber stamped for that vacancy.

 

They may have but it would go against what they've actually written and got the clubs to vote for.

[keighley]

They may have but it would go against what they've actually written and got the clubs to vote for.

 

I think that comes under the hoisted on your own petard column. It will be interesting to see what shenanigans are rolled out to get round their written and voted protestations.

[Griff]

Well, we're stuck with it now and I suppose we need to prove it's a load of old nonsense before people will let it drop. 

 

I'm amused by the notion that the middle division will be producing all the interest and all the crowds - that goes diametrically against what little experience of it that we have.

 

Let's hope that clubs don't manage to bankrupt themselves chasing the dream before the game comes to its senses.

[Rarefrith]

Well, we're stuck with it now and I suppose we need to prove it's a load of old nonsense before people will let it drop. 

 

I'm amused by the notion that the middle division will be producing all the interest and all the crowds - that goes diametrically against what little experience of it that we have.

 

Let's hope that clubs don't manage to bankrupt themselves chasing the dream before the game comes to its senses.

The license system did great for club finances, a real revelation!!

[Griff]

The licence system did great for club finances, a real revelation!!

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

This system actively encourages overspending - that's the difference.

 

Maybe we should make club directors personally responsible for their club's debts.  Then we might see more financial common sense.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Griff

[sweaty craiq]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

This system actively encourages overspending - that's the difference.

 

Maybe we should make club directors personally responsible for their club's debts.  Then we might see more financial common sense.

 

How does it encourage overspending? It encourages investment to reach goals, if a club is foolish enough to accept that as loans then that is their stupidity, I believe the money lined up at Leigh is in shares, and is significant.

[The Parksider]

1. This system actively encourages overspending - that's the difference.Let's hope that clubs don't manage to bankrupt themselves chasing the dream before the game comes to its senses.

2. I'm amused by the notion that the middle division will be producing all the interest and all the crowds - that goes diametrically against what little experience of it that we have.

1. I aren't sure that it wasn't licensing that caused clubs to overspend?? Didn't the uprating of stadiums, the staffing of backrooms, the spending on academy facilities and the desire that clubs spend full cap too push many clubs into debt??

Aren't we saying that ridding the game of licensing and the financial hoops clubs have to jump through is a way of allowing SL clubs to reduce budgets and debts?

I did try to suggest to Mr. Sadler last week that there is no evidence of clubs going for broke at all, quite the opposite as they look to shed costs and sell off players.

Today he was at it again saying that clubs would overspend to "chase the dream". However I am at a loss here as firstly the salary cap reduces overspend and secondly the available pool of the top 200 players is pretty much tied up in the top eight clubs.

Who are clubs going to overspend on and how??? Maybe Mr. Sadler will take pity and let us know?

2. Indeed, there's however a very large opinion that nothing will change much, one advocate suggested there would be "one or two shocks", have we really made such a radical change for "one or two shocks".

[yipyee]

Absolutely.  The only crack I can see is that I struggle to see London existing at the end of 2014 so a space opens up.

 

 

But that space would be in the championship so:

 

A) Toulouse come in......

B ) Leigh will be saved from getting relegated to champ 1...(again).....

 

It would not free up a SL space.......

 

Therefore as said there is no chance a current championship club will be playing in SL anytime soon!!!

Edited January 27, 2014 by yipyee

[Keith T]

Who are clubs going to overspend on and how??? Maybe Mr. Sadler will take pity and let us know?

I'm sure there will be a big temptation by some Championship clubs to overspend this coming season with high stakes that have put on being in the second 12 of 24 teams. With, at the present time, 5 teams to be relegated, from a financial point of view there will be a vast difference in funding. The 23rd team of the 2 leagues (or 9th placed Championship team) will collect around £160k and the promoted team £150k, whilst the relegated teams pick a one-off payment of £25k and the £75k that all the Championship 1 clubs will receive.

This of course is all dependant on the SL clubs allowing some of the Sky money to flow down to the lower leagues but I'm sure all Championship clubs will want to be in the top 9 in their league this season, just in case!!!

[Griff]

How does it encourage overspending? It encourages investment to reach goals, if a club is foolish enough to accept that as loans then that is their stupidity, I believe the money lined up at Leigh is in shares, and is significant.

 

Well, once again - "investment".  What's the return on this "investment" ?

 

It encourages overspending because the funding structure means that the only way a Div 2 club can compete with a $uperleague club is to borrow money from - or issue worthless shares to - "investors". There's no way they can compete on trading income alone.

[Griff]

1. I aren't sure that it wasn't licensing that caused clubs to overspend?? Didn't the uprating of stadiums, the staffing of backrooms, the spending on academy facilities and the desire that clubs spend full cap too push many clubs into debt??

Aren't we saying that ridding the game of licensing and the financial hoops clubs have to jump through is a way of allowing SL clubs to reduce budgets and debts?

I did try to suggest to Mr. Sadler last week that there is no evidence of clubs going for broke at all, quite the opposite as they look to shed costs and sell off players.

Today he was at it again saying that clubs would overspend to "chase the dream". However I am at a loss here as firstly the salary cap reduces overspend and secondly the available pool of the top 200 players is pretty much tied up in the top eight clubs.

Who are clubs going to overspend on and how??? Maybe Mr. Sadler will take pity and let us know?

.

 

I do take your point here - it'll be interesting to see how persuasive the ambitious Div 2 clubs are.