The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[yipyee]

Never a truer word. Change has come, change will no doubt come again and not be long about it.

We just can't make our minds up, can we ?

I'm cool with the new format. If it hadn't been voted in this year, there'd've been a constant whining noise in the background until we tried it and showed it to be the complete tosh that it is.

the problem is some people will like this system and when its changed will spend a lifetime arguing to bring it back!!

[roughyedspud]

disband SLE and make the RFL the only stakeholder..

[Oxford]

"the problem is some people will like this system and when its changed will spend a lifetime arguing to bring it back!!"

Very true the number of things we debate long after a sell by date(and that have become part of the mythology of league almost as much as the dip the toe in the water and run for your lives model)  PSG, Nottingham Outlaws, Origin county, etc etc is too huge to consider fully!

On the face of it though the new system does provide for Fev for example toppling someone higher up and having a phased in stepping up process.

I think the point about the top clubs sorting themselves out is on the money but much of the calamities and vacillations that the above list if only part of have been down to the selfishness of clubs rather than the RFL. Mo was a prime example of this and without going into detail his tenure contained some glaringly partisan decisions. I do hope that the call for an independent C E O is not a step back in time!  

[The Parksider]

Never a truer word.  Change has come, change will no doubt come again and not be long about it.

 

We just can't make our minds up, can we ?

 

I'm cool with the new format.  If it hadn't been voted in this year, there'd've been a constant whining noise in the background until we tried it and showed it to be the complete tosh that it is.

 

 

Check out how it's to be funded Griff, two SL clubs to drop to the championship and with parachute payments to be given and another half a million to be given them if they then finish first or second they should be the ones in pole position to get back there.

 

Check out the funding for the current CC clubs likely to be 3-12. Peanuts in comparison, awful deal for the Championship clubs IMHO however I'll let your well honed financial mind makes it's own judgement....

Edited February 3, 2014 by The Parksider

[Griff]

Check out how it's to be funded Griff, two SL clubs to drop to the championship and with parachute payments to be given and another half a million to be given them if they then finish first or second they should be the ones in pole position to get back there.

 

Check out the funding for the current CC clubs likely to be 3-12. Peanuts in comparison, awful deal for the Championship clubs IMHO however I'll let your well honed financial mind makes it's own judgement....

 

Finances can change as well as formats, Parky.  But, on the other hand, looking at the proposals, I'm wondering just how much the RFL want this to work.

[Oxford]

The Parksider

 Does that mean that the half million wouldn't be given to a championship side going up? I don't doubt your word here I just don't know! I am glad there is a parachute payment because that has been my concern about relegation returning the devastating effects it has always had bordered on the criminal and that can't be up for debate even if you're promotion's biggest champion! 

 

I also put a post in about Burgess/ Farrell and the former swapping sports which seems to have been removed. I put it out there in response to an article on this website, are we not allowed to discuss encroachments by another sport here? If so it's not the site I thought it was!

 

"4. Salford again. Nobody is financially sound simply from sugar daddies, that's where you have it wrong.

Financial soundness comes from a big fan base and a great local junior scene/academy  that produces players."

This is absolutely correct and I think that's Marwan Koukash's vision that keeps being mentioned and also from the evidence

of what he himself has said on the issue.

 

Giant Strides Good piece of fun! but,  "Other than that pretty similar,"  Really?  But maybe for another thread!

Edited February 3, 2014 by Oxford

[The Parksider]

Finances can change as well as formats, Parky.  But, on the other hand, looking at the proposals, I'm wondering just how much the RFL want this to work.

 

London and one other will leave SL this season on a parachute payment of £780K

 

Two of probably Leigh, Fax and Fev will win £500K for coming top of the championship.

 

So in 2015 expect six well funded SL clubs and two CC clubs with funds to battle for four SL places..

 

It will be fascinating to see how it pans out, which SL club will collapse under the strain which CC club may just get a foothold.

 

IMVHO expect little change the RFL are merely making sure two CC clubs get a chance to fight for promotion. Everyone else in the CCC's stay as they are fighting for survival.

Edited February 3, 2014 by The Parksider

[The Parksider]

The Parksider

 

Does that mean that the half million wouldn't be given to a championship side going up? I don't doubt your word here I just don't know! I am glad there is a parachute payment because that has been my concern about relegation returning the devastating effects it has have always bordered on the criminal and that can't be up for debate even if you're promotion's biggest champion! 

 

 

The deal protects the two relegated clubs from financial collapse giving them around £800K to play in the championship with. They may be able to keep a number of players on full time.

 

This happened when clubs like Salford, Castleford and Fartown went down under P & R. Wilkinson, Fulton and Davey backed them with money. IIRC Huddersfield went undefeated, Cas lost one and Salford lost two games so the parachute payment loads the dice for these relegated clubs if they maintain their chairman's backing as well.

 

Four SL clubs in the play off will be all the stronger and debt free thanks to this deal.

 

That leaves two current CC clubs to probably be the underdogs in the first round of "8" Fev, Leigh or Fax.

 

They will have had a £500K boost pre-season allowing them to try to strengthen their squads, but only at the last minute before the new structure starts, and that could be a problem for them as it always was for top CC clubs when we had P & R before.

 

That's my quick analysis but it looks like the middle "8" is loaded. What I will be looking for is the top CC clubs crying "foul". Bet they don't.....

[sweaty craiq]

I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

 

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

[bobbruce]

I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

I think the two relegated clubs will get two big payments the first year so there will only be 2 championship clubs on £500k

[tim2]

London and one other will leave SL this season on a parachute payment of £780K

 

Two of probably Leigh, Fax and Fev will win £500K for coming top of the championship.

 

So in 2015 expect six well funded SL clubs and two CC clubs with funds to battle for four SL places..

 

It will be fascinating to see how it pans out, which SL club will collapse under the strain which CC club may just get a foothold.

 

IMVHO expect little change the RFL are merely making sure two CC clubs get a chance to fight for promotion. Everyone else in the CCC's stay as they are fighting for survival.

Mark Aston weighs in on this topic.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/all-clubs/promotion-or-bust-is-real-fear-for-rivals-aston-1-6413882

[The Parksider]

Mark Aston weighs in on this topic.

 

 

"I think the other championship clubs have been bought as they’re all thinking they’ll get more money,” Aston told the Yorkshire Post, with the RFL having just secured another major broadcasting deal with Sky Sports that incorporates the second tier.“I know I’ll get shot down for this but some of the top-end Championship sides have already bought a team for Super League too.If, though, they don’t get in those top two spots – it’s not top four as, remember, two Super League clubs are coming down at the end of this year – then what happens then? “They are going for broke and, quite simply, if they don’t get in that top two next year, they’ll be bust"

 

Thanks Tim. Note "They" I think Aston has signalled the end of Sheffield's SL dream there.

 

the "top end" sides can only be Fev, Fax and Leigh, but I can't see either of the two latter, now down to 1,600 crowds managing to compete.

 

For Craiq the top two CC clubs this year will get £500K If that's Fev and Sheffield again then Aston is saying Halifax and Leigh will be stuffed.

 

If Featherstone didn't make one of the two £500K slots then as they are already running what was it £875,000 worth of liabilities maybe he is especially talking about them??

[The Parksider]

Who will be the stake holders in SLE?

 

Will it be the same 14 clubs that we have now,or will it just be the 12 club who are left after two are relegated at the end of this season?

 

Or will all clubs become stake holders?

 

The 12 who are left.

 

Who will be their boss is the bigger question.....

[GaryO]

I may have missed something but I understand the top 4 Championship clubs will get a minimum of £500k for 2015, then a sliding scale from £250-150k.

Anything less than that £500k may not allow all 4 clubs to go FT, devalue the comp and miss the objectives of the structure over the next 3 years

 

I expect 6/7 FT clubs in the second tier with those in the championship at present to be much stronger in seasons 2 and 3

As I stated on another thread Craiq

 

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

I have not yet seen how the funding is to be allocated, are the figs being quoted actual as published by the RL or are they a supposition for the sake of a debating point?

 

Any imbalance in funding such as stated will not create an opportunity for promotion as was implied by Parky.  

[tim2]

Thanks Tim. Note "They" I think Aston has signalled the end of Sheffield's SL dream there.

Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

[The Parksider]

As I stated on another thread Craiq

 

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

I have not yet seen how the funding is to be allocated, are the figs being quoted actual as published by the RL or are they a supposition for the sake of a debating point?

You may not be far off there Gary. The actual funding per season pays £300K to all SL clubs to ease financial woes, it pays for all SL clubs to meet the current cap and a bit more £1,800,000, it pays for the two relegated SL clubs to stay afloat to the tune of 800K, and finally it gives the top two championship clubs £500K to try to get into the 12.

It looks like a put up or shut up to clubs who aspire to SL wether current members moaning about the cost or CC clubs moaning about the lack of opportunity.

Only 16 clubs seem to be in this fight for 12 Superleague places. My guess is they'll give it a few years whilst lenagan ousts Wood and then it will be 12 clubs in SL with a play off every 2 years between bottom SL club and top CC club. Lenegans heavily loaded P & R plan

[Griff]

Sheffield need a lot more people through the gate before they start dreaming about $uperleague.

 

Parsimony can only get you so far.

[Griff]

Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

 

Why "no choice", Tim ?  There's always a choice ........

[Griff]

Oh - is P+R coming back ?

 

I thought it was just the opportunity/jeopardy of P+R.

[The Parksider]

Realistically, it is. Unless they go for broke, which Sheffield won't do. The only chance now is to bide their time until the system changes again. In the meantime, the club will have more money than it had before and an opportunity to build a new base at Owlerton.

Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax have no choice but to try to take this opportunity, slim though it is. And even then, not all three of them will succeed.

Indeed Tim it's a put up or shut up invitation which I fear will either see someone from CC get a foothold (slim chance as you say) or put the nails finally in the coffin of their "destination SL" campaigns.

I'm looking like you to the next step already and I wonder Tim wether they would bring back a 14 club Superleague in say three years with London, Toulouse and Catalans in there??

Outside that a network of small championship clubs across the country.

[Oxford]

"unless all along it has been ( the new structure) one calculated and very effective scam by the RL to entice a bigger contract from SKY and keeping the 12 teams who start 2016 in the SL for perpetuity"

 

Now if this were true it would represent the "World Turned Upside Down" 

The general consensus from left field has always been about how incompetent the RFL are, couldn't run the what's-it in the proverbial blah blah blah.

But this would mean not only are they brilliant but deserve all our plaudits and applause for managing to marry all the contradictory factions and demands across RL and get them more or less on side with it all.           Impressive to say the least!

[The Parksider]

The general consensus from left field has always been about how incompetent the RFL are, couldn't run the what's-it in the proverbial blah blah blah.

But this would mean not only are they brilliant but deserve all our plaudits and applause for managing to marry all the contradictory factions and demands across RL and get them more or less on side with it all.

The RFL have stuffed most championship clubs hopes, reduced the chance of top championship clubs going up, and have obtained a poor increase in the value of the SKY deal - apparently 30% (so well done Padge). This was an offer the championship clubs could not refuse, enabling the RFL to use the tail to wag the dog (well done Padge again)all to secure Mr. Wood and his regime.

Not brilliant at all?

Edited February 3, 2014 by The Parksider

[Dave T]

The RFL have stuffed most championship clubs hopes, reduced the chance of top championship clubs going up, and have obtained a poor increase in the value of the SKY deal - apparently 30% (so well done Padge). This was an offer the championship clubs could not refuse, enabling the RFL to use the tail to wag the dog (well done Padge again)all to secure Mr. Wood and his regime.

Not brilliant at all?

No, the 30% figure that Leneghan quotes and the 25% figure Padge quotes are completely different.

 

Leneghan is being disingenuous with his use of stats. 

[gingerjon]

I don't think anyone has put the distribution figures on here.  As they relate to how the restructure will work rather than the TV deal itself (which is Sky handing over money and SL/RFL dealing with it) I think it's relevant they're spelt out here:

 

In 2015, then:

 

12 SL Clubs: £1.825m

Clubs 13/14: £788k, £787k

Cubs 15/16: £550k, £500k

Clubs 17-24: Between £250k and £150k (Club 24, I presume is the 2014 C1 Champions).

Championship 1 clubs: 75k

 

So it's pretty much as per the initial RFL proposal.

[Dave T]

The bit about the further £17.8m being paid for coaching and into club's charities during the contract is interesting.

 

Is this just for Sl clubs?

 

If it was, over 5 years that is a further £300k per SL club pa. if split evenly.