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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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The key issue is the heartland clubs have never wanted to sacrifice their own self interests for the greater good of expanding the sport. 

 

Agreed.

 

Again, I'd like to reiterate I am happy with the 12-team format in SL. I won't however, be happy with the announcements yet to be made about the structure. They are barking mad.

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Next year, we have to finish outside the bottonm two with a £600k lower grant than the others. Come on Bradford industry and commerce give something back to the city by raising the £600k so we can pay players up to the salary cap!!

You sure about not finishing in the bottom two? Perhaps the final twelve will be based on one fi al licensing round - which might mean a club stays up even if they come 13th.

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They shouldnt need to! We should find a solution that achieves heartland development and expansion - like football. I'm sick of hearing about the NRL. Btw how come RU could expand into Perth but the NRL failed (as it did in Adelaide and various other places)

 

Because soccer has 1000 times the resources of British rugby league. It is in a completely different universe. 

 

You are stick of hearing about the NRL? The most successful Rugby League competition in the World? Do you actually like rugby league? Saying you are sick about hearing about is like a Soccer fan saying they are sick of hearing about the World Cup or a cricket fan saying they are sick about hearing about the Ashes!

 

The competition that most resembles the NRL is the Super League. The NRL is commercially successful, the Super League isn't. Maybe British rugby league could learn something. 

 

The Perth Reds and Adelaide Rams were quite a successful expansion sides but they had to be sacrificed in favour of the ARL clubs and News Limited's Melbourne Storm. 

 

Personally I think Cronulla and Penrith could have sacrificed for expansion back to Perth and maybe Ipswich. 

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You sure about not finishing in the bottom two? Perhaps the final twelve will be based on one fi al licensing round - which might mean a club stays up even if they come 13th.

 

 

Maybe. In the Bradford T&A newspaper tonight they were talking of avoiding finishing in the bottom two.

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Because soccer has 1000 times the resources of British rugby league. It is in a completely different universe. 

 

You are stick of hearing about the NRL? The most successful Rugby League competition in the World? Do you actually like rugby league? Saying you are sick about hearing about is like a Soccer fan saying they are sick of hearing about the World Cup or a cricket fan saying they are sick about hearing about the Ashes!

 

The competition that most resembles the NRL is the Super League. The NRL is commercially successful, the Super League isn't. Maybe British rugby league could learn something. 

 

The Perth Reds and Adelaide Rams were quite a successful expansion sides but they had to be sacrificed in favour of the ARL clubs and News Limited's Melbourne Storm. 

 

Personally I think Cronulla and Penrith could have sacrificed for expansion back to Perth and maybe Ipswich. 

 

 

You equally cannot compare the NRL to Super League. The profile of the sport over there is massively different to ours. It's the number one sport in 2 of the top 3 cities in Australia.

 

I'm not sure we're the number 1 sport in any city of the much larger UK.

 

Melbourne Storm are nowhere near the success they should be. Without multiple titles they would have likely been dropped years ago, they still get as low as 12,000 in a city that claims to be the biggest sporting city in the world. This is similar to a very poor Super 14 team and way lower than any of the 8 or so AFL sides.

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All this comparison with the nrl has got me thinking. There were mergers in Sydney, but how many? And how fast did the nrl expand? Also, did they kick 7 Sydney teams out of the league for the non-Sydney teams?

 

 

Well that is complicated. The NSWRL started to expand during the 1980s to the whole of NSW and then to the other states. One of the foundation clubs, Newtown Jets, went bust in 1983. Then Illawarra, Canberra, Newcastle and the Gold Coast were admitted. The real game changer happened when they admitted the Brisbane Broncos in 1988. That one move basically destroyed the First Grade status of the 10 clubs in the BRL. Auckland and North Queensland followed in 1995.  

 

Then when Super League came along all sorts of expansion clubs popped up. Perth, Adelaide, Hunter etc. 

 

After the reunification of the sport in 1998 there were too many clubs and the NRL and News Limited started to offer lots of cash and a guaranteed place in the  competition to any of the Sydney clubs that wanted to merge. Wests and Balmain formed Wests Tigers, St George and Illawarra formed St George-Illawarra and Norths and Manly formed the Northern Eagles. Wests Tigers and St George-Illawarra have worked but Norths and Manly fell out and Norths preferred to revert to stand alone status as a semi pro team. 

 

Souths refused to merge and were infamously thrown out of the competition only to be readmitted two years later after legal action.  

 

So a total of 4 clubs have had to merge and one club has had to accept demotion to the NSW Cup. Wests, Balmain and Norths were all founding members of the NSWRL. St George were the second most successful NSWRL club of all time with 15 Premierships. Balmain had won 11 Premierships. 

 

It should also not be forgotten that the creation of the Brisbane Broncos basically destroyed the 10 BRL clubs as top level sides. So in its efforts to create a national competition 5 of the NSWRL clubs had to be sacrificed along with the 10 BRL teams. 

 

In contrast parochialism has triumphed  in England. The Manchester and the Calder clubs should have merged and there is also a good case for the Hull clubs to do so too. The carrot and the stick approach proved very effective in the NRL and even the case of South Sydney they were forced to get their act together when they were readmitted to the competition, they are now the best supported side in Sydney. 

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You equally cannot compare the NRL to Super League. The profile of the sport over there is massively different to ours. It's the number one sport in 2 of the top 3 cities in Australia.

 

I'm not sure we're the number 1 sport in any city of the much larger UK.

 

Melbourne Storm are nowhere near the success they should be. Without multiple titles they would have likely been dropped years ago, they still get as low as 12,000 in a city that claims to be the biggest sporting city in the world. This is similar to a very poor Super 14 team and way lower than any of the 8 or so AFL sides.

 

Melbourne's presence has more to do with them being owned by News Limited rather than their on field success. However they are a good example of how you should manage expansion. As with the Brisbane Broncos and Canberra, Melbourne had the players and the resources to be challenging for Premierships from day 1. 

 

If the Super League is to expand then the clubs that are admitted have to have the resources to compete at the top level. In an alien environment the best marketing you can have is on field success. It is one of the reason London are sinking without trace and have failed to gain widespread support. 

 

The lack of resources within the British game means that there is even greater imperative for the RFL to concentrate its resources in the top elite competition. Spreading the TV cash more thinly than before is madness. 

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12 teams and who will be the ones to get the chop and if TOULOUSE  come in that will mean 3 clubs.

 

100% nailed on 2 will be LONDON BRONCOS and CASTLEFORD TIGERS

 

Any bets on the other one?

CM

 

Whoever finishes in the bottom 2 next season will go down.

 

When are Toulouse going to show the colour of their money?

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You are stick of hearing about the NRL? The most successful Rugby League competition in the World? Do you actually like rugby league? Saying you are sick about hearing about is like a Soccer fan saying they are sick of hearing about the World Cup or a cricket fan saying they are sick about hearing about the Ashes!

 

The English have a stake in both the FIFA World Cup and the Ashes. We don't have a team in the NRL.

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12 teams and who will be the ones to get the chop and if TOULOUSE come in that will mean 3 clubs.

100% nailed on 2 will be LONDON BRONCOS and CASTLEFORD TIGERS

Any bets on the other one?

CM

Havent the RFL also promised a spot for a CC club for 2015? So adding a CC club plus Toulouse means four SL clubs for the drop.

I wonder if this signals a 3x8 scenario? A drop is more palatable if you know you can make the middle 8 in the final part of the year (and thus be back in SL for the srat of the next season if you end up in the top four of the middle 8)

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Havent the RFL also promised a spot for a CC club for 2015?

That's old money fully-franchised SL.  You can consider all that stuff gone with the rest of the licensing.  It'll be a free-for-all that'll probably end up with 12 of the existing 14 clubs making up the SL in the brave new world.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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According to Dave Matthews Salford's new CEO who attended yesterday's meeting with Dr Koukash, there will no Championship club promoted for 2015. He was the studio guest on Radio Manchester's RL Extra tonight.

Surely the best non-SL club (at this stage poss Sheffield/Fev) should be given a slot? At least the others have basked in the Sun

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P and r 1 up one down for me, Toulouse in and protected for five years. Champ grand final will be massive, cru promoted within 3 years!

This.

One note of caution: guaranteed relegation of two-three Super League clubs and up to five championship clubs next year will lead to a frightening level of short term thinking and almost certain financial meltdown for some clubs.

We NEED one more round of licensing for BOTH the super league and the new 12-team championship in order to ensure that there is still a focus on off-field structure and sustainability.

Once we have 24 stable clubs, one-up, one-down standards driven P/R will be a more sustainable prospect.

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Well hasn't this forum turned into a doom and gloom fest!  It would appear after all that the cosy franchise system which the majority on here support due to having a club safely tucked inside it is to be no more.  Reading some of the comments on here though the franchise system was working and apparently the RFL are changing just to please a few disgruntled supporters like me, that's a kind of paranoia I have been accused of in the past.  Even when SL clubs themselves vote to end the ridiculous system some forum members still deny that it has been a complete failure.

 

It is amazing how the RFL so loyaly backed by many members on here are all of a sudden lunatics running an asylum.  How many times have I been called a doom merchant and accused of only caring about my own club.  Well just take a look at this forum it really is very sad how many hypercritical comments have been posted.  

 

I have really enjoyed Mr Sadler scurrying around peddling his propaganda garbage in his paper which only makes me even more happier that I decided to boycott his rag a long time ago. We also had had the Widnes chairman Mr O'Connor putting his weight behind franchising, no surprise really he milked the system for all it was putting a team out in the Championship that was not worthy of such a great club, just because he got the nod from the RFL that SL was his.  My favourite is probably Tony Smith's comments a few week back, here we have a good coach that was aided with the lack of P&R when he was learning his trade at Huddersfield.  His reasons though are priceless, apparently it will stop young British players players getting there chance in the first team because clubs will be under pressure to survive P&R, remind me how old there Warrington's Aussie full back is?  

 

I am personally really pleased with the recent developments and I feel like the RFL are finally going down the road of thinking about all member clubs again.  I really hope that the split into 3 leagues is voted through.  Either way I almost feel part of the game again and I am even starting to take an interest in the world cup.

 

Cheer up everyone, what goes around comes around  :tongue:

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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If bein where willing to fund at one stage a outpost city French league then Surely they could chip in to allow Toulouse entry, they pay rights to broadcast nrl I really hope this is the case... But the silence is worrying.

Perhaps Toulouse will be in the second 12? If there is a 3-way split and they make the top four, they would have a 50/50 chance of being in SL in 2016......

Not ideal (I would start with 10 UK clubs in SL plus two French), but it is a start. Also the second tier this time will be a much better comp than what they played in last time with far more away fans

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I'd suggest finding a place for London if, and only if, there was a proper plan and finance in place for the club. The rest of it is spot on. I'm amazed that the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington and Pearson put up with the nonsense coming from the RFL. As I remember it SLE is still a separate body, if I was involved I'd be looking to re-assert that status.

Don't know about Pearson but both Hetherington and Lenaghan are in favour of change according to media

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