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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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I'm simply too weary to argue with you. All I can say is Get a reality check. I'm no bloody victim! I'm weary of the attacks you make. I'm weary of the state of the game, a game which is so good it can't even get a main sponsor for it's flagship competition. A game that's so good it can't promote itself. I'm sick to death of the endless facts and figures being produced on here to prove many of the Championship clubs will never, ever make it in the "elite."I'm weary of people coming on here and banging on about how we shouldn't moan and how we should talk up the game. It gets hard when you're told there's no future for the club you support. I talk up the achievements of my club. I'm proud of my club! I don't need you to keep on telling me that I'm just a fervent traditionalist supporting a team from a pit village with no future. I'm no parochial supporter. I'd love to see the game played at the highest level all over the country. The reality is that we are no NRL. We are no NFL.

With you all the way mate

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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From what I've seen most reasonable posters havent said anything like that. They have been saying that Fev had done enough to gain themselves a licence. It would of been well earned and would of given them three years security to try to establish themselves in SL. Now as someone else has pointed out the best the can hope for is to win promotion in 2016 or 17. I fear by then all their momentum will have stopped

You are right the change back to P and R means we miss out on a franchise in 2015 and the risk is with some good clubs coming down we risk gaining promotion on the field for some years to come.

However the reason that us so called selfish inbred flatcappers want a return to P and R is because we want to achieve our goals by on the field. We would rather do it that way than have a packed clubhouse waiting for an administration to give an announcement (the way Widnes did). We would rather do it on the field rather than take the place of a clubs like Cas via a licence because we know first hand how hard it is to carry on fighting in a League where winning the comp means you stay where you are.

It has become perfectly clear that a set of supporters who have been accused time and time again of only caring about there own club actually care about the game in general. The same can't be said for many of the accuses who are now crapping themselves that there cosy bubble is about to burst.

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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You are right the change back to P and R means we miss out on a franchise in 2015 and the risk is with some good clubs coming down we risk gaining promotion on the field for some years to come.

However the reason that us so called selfish inbred flatcappers want a return to P and R is because we want to achieve our goals by on the field. We would rather do it that way than have a packed clubhouse waiting for an administration to give an announcement (the way Widnes did). We would rather do it on the field rather than take the place of a clubs like Cas via a licence because we know first hand how hard it is to carry on fighting in a League where winning the comp means you stay where you are.

It has become perfectly clear that a set of supporters who have been accused time and time again of only caring about there own club actually care about the game in general. The same can't be said for many of the accuses who are now crapping themselves that there cosy bubble is about to burst.

And yet, we've had Fev fans on here admitting that they're only interested in seeing their club in the top flight, getting an opportunity to play Wakefield and Cas on a regular basis, even if that means the game as a whole has regressed to a semi-pro competition and playing standards fallen. 

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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You are right the change back to P and R means we miss out on a franchise in 2015 and the risk is with some good clubs coming down we risk gaining promotion on the field for some years to come.

However the reason that us so called selfish inbred flatcappers want a return to P and R is because we want to achieve our goals by on the field. We would rather do it that way than have a packed clubhouse waiting for an administration to give an announcement (the way Widnes did). We would rather do it on the field rather than take the place of a clubs like Cas via a licence because we know first hand how hard it is to carry on fighting in a League where winning the comp means you stay where you are.

It has become perfectly clear that a set of supporters who have been accused time and time again of only caring about there own club actually care about the game in general. The same can't be said for many of the accuses who are now crapping themselves that there cosy bubble is about to burst.

 

Excellent post Ian.

 

The last round of licensing instead of picking the best 14 professional RL clubs picked only four clubs that came up to an A rating.

So they had to scratch around for second rate pro clubs...... "B" clubs. Bradford as a B went bust.

 

Still five clubs short they then admitted five third rate "C" rated clubs including Wakey who had gone bust, salford who were heading that way and London who were sinking. The result was heavy financial losses and club chairmen pulling the plug.

 

The bubble is indeed burst, so it is back to P & R and we may as well enjoy it as best we can,

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I'm simply too weary to argue with you. All I can say is Get a reality check. I'm no bloody victim! I'm weary of the attacks you make. I'm weary of the state of the game, a game which is so good it can't even get a main sponsor for it's flagship competition. A game that's so good it can't promote itself. I'm sick to death of the endless facts and figures being produced on here to prove many of the Championship clubs will never, ever make it in the "elite."

I'm weary of people coming on here and banging on about how we shouldn't moan and how we should talk up the game. It gets hard when you're told there's no future for the club you support. I talk up the achievements of my club. I'm proud of my club! I don't need you to keep on telling me that I'm just a fervent traditionalist supporting a team from a pit village with no future. I'm no parochial supporter. I'd love to see the game played at the highest level all over the country. The reality is that we are no NRL. We are no NFL.

what attacks are these

I agree with you about the main sponsor-but suggest it doesn't relate to how good the game is

heaven forbid that people should provide hard information to support their argument

nobody has told anybody that there is no future for any club that anybody supports

You don't come across as a traditionaalist to me fervent or otherwise. What traditions are you referring to?

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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There is no point in debating with some people on here, especially Lobbygobbler. When presented with the crowd figures from the 1980s he dismisses them as inaccurate. A ridiculous attitude. When presented with the facts he ignores them.

In terms if Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford if they want to indulge in an inter village championship they should do in the semi professional championship and not the Super League. If they fancy watching a team that could have a chance of winning the Super League they should enter a merged team that played out of a new stadium.

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And yet, we've had Fev fans on here admitting that they're only interested in seeing their club in the top flight, getting an opportunity to play Wakefield and Cas on a regular basis, even if that means the game as a whole has regressed to a semi-pro competition and playing standards fallen.

I don't know many Fev fans who feel this way. What I do know is that they would like the opportunity to play Cas and Wakey via promotion or by one of the mentioned clubs dropping down via relegation.

If you ask the majority of Fev fans if they would rather have a licence for 2015 or a return to P and R, I would say the majority would vote for P and R.

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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There is no point in debating with some people on here, especially Lobbygobbler. When presented with the crowd figures from the 1980s he dismisses them as inaccurate. A ridiculous attitude. When presented with the facts he ignores them.

In terms if Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford if they want to indulge in an inter village championship they should do in the semi professional championship and not the Super League. If they fancy watching a team that could have a chance of winning the Super League they should enter a merged team that played out of a new stadium.

Then don't debate but it does not mean you are right and Lobby is wrong.

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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Excellent post Ian.

 

The last round of licensing instead of picking the best 14 professional RL clubs picked only four clubs that came up to an A rating.

So they had to scratch around for second rate pro clubs...... "B" clubs. Bradford as a B went bust.

 

Still five clubs short they then admitted five third rate "C" rated clubs including Wakey who had gone bust, salford who were heading that way and London who were sinking. The result was heavy financial losses and club chairmen pulling the plug.

 

The bubble is indeed burst, so it is back to P & R and we may as well enjoy it as best we can,

Cheers Parky. As you know from my history of posts I am very bitter towards what happened in 1995, however with recent changes which looks like a return to P and R it's time I got over the past and started to support the game I love. If all goes well with the restructure, I will definitely attend at least 1 world cup game.

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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I worry about the proposed changes. Not because its not the right thing to do for the greater RL family - it clearly is. However, the financial inequalities that licensing has created will take years to re-bridge.....and will the game have patience to stick with it? We don't know how P&R in the SL funded era would have panned out - we didn't stick with it long enough the first time to really know.

However, I'm excited to feel part if the RL family once again. Like many I've felt ostracised for far too long. Here's to all working together again.

Edited by sheddings69
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Excellent post Ian.

 

The last round of licensing instead of picking the best 14 professional RL clubs picked only four clubs that came up to an A rating.

So they had to scratch around for second rate pro clubs...... "B" clubs. Bradford as a B went bust.

 

Still five clubs short they then admitted five third rate "C" rated clubs including Wakey who had gone bust, salford who were heading that way and London who were sinking. The result was heavy financial losses and club chairmen pulling the plug.

 

The bubble is indeed burst, so it is back to P & R and we may as well enjoy it as best we can,

As has been mentioned before licensing/franchising isn't the problem the problem is the way that it has been administered. As a fudge they expanded the league to 14 and allowed in clubs that couldn't spend to the salary cap and weren't fit for purpose.

Bradford and Wakefield needed to be thrown out and Salford and Crusaders should never have been admitted in the first place.

Unfortunately in professional sport what goes on in the board room is just as important, if not more important than what goes on on the pitch. For a sport that was founded on the issue of professionalism many supporters seem to live in an alternate reality where money doesn't matter and all that matters is "what goes on on the field".

Sorry but if Featherstone weren't being bankrolled by a benefactor they wouldn't be anywhere near getting into the Super League. Not a hope in hell.

The fundamental problem is Rugby League is skint and it can't afford the luxury of promotion and relegation. Promotion and relegation will undermine the commercial stability of the Super League clubs, it will deter rational commercial investors and it will undermine the development of British players. All in the name of "excitement". Brilliant idea.

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I worry about the proposed changes. Not because its not the right thing to do for the greater RL family - it clearly is. However, the financial inequalities that licensing has created will take years to re-bridge.....and will the game have patience to stick with it? We don't know how P&R in the SL funded era would have panned out - we didn't stick with it long enough the first time to really know.

However, I'm excited to feel part if the RL family once again. Like many I've felt ostracised for far too long. Here's to all working together again.

nothing like getting your excuses in early

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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Then don't debate but it does not mean you are right and Lobby is wrong.

Unfortunately it is impossible to debate with someone who denies the facts when presented to them. Lobbygobbler is wrong. The crowds in the 1980s were poor and they were not inflated by people "jumping over the fence" on mass. That is a ridiculous claim.

Also his assertion that rugby league will die in towns where their senior clubs are denied a stand alone entry is also wrong. Cumbria has no Super League clubs, no prospect of a Super League club, and is a hot bed of amateur rugby league.

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As has been mentioned before licensing/franchising isn't the problem the problem is the way that it has been administered. As a fudge they expanded the league to 14 and allowed in clubs that couldn't spend to the salary cap and weren't fit for purpose.

Bradford and Wakefield needed to be thrown out and Salford and Crusaders should never have been admitted in the first place.

Unfortunately in professional sport what goes on in the board room is just as important, if not more important than what goes on on the pitch. For a sport that was founded on the issue of professionalism many supporters seem to live in an alternate reality where money doesn't matter and all that matters is "what goes on on the field".

Sorry but if Featherstone weren't being bankrolled by a benefactor they wouldn't be anywhere near getting into the Super League. Not a hope in hell.

The fundamental problem is Rugby League is skint and it can't afford the luxury of promotion and relegation. Promotion and relegation will undermine the commercial stability of the Super League clubs, it will deter rational commercial investors and it will undermine the development of British players. All in the name of "excitement". Brilliant idea.

do you ever leave your keyboard and actually watch a game of rugby league. what do want from a game of rugby league if not excitement.. that is what the game is about, not all this debating/arguing over statistics and dodgy forecasts about clubs or the games demise.. passion and excitement are exactly what we want, not the sterile rubbish that's being served up at present

joe mullaney is a god

the only good tiger is a stuffed tiger

oldrover.gif

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do you ever leave your keyboard and actually watch a game of rugby league. what do want from a game of rugby league if not excitement.. that is what the game is about, not all this debating/arguing over statistics and dodgy forecasts about clubs or the games demise.. passion and excitement are exactly what we want, not the sterile rubbish that's being served up at present

Before people can enjoy the "excitement" British rugby league needs to find a model that can commercially sustain itself. Promotion and relegation between a professional and a part time league is unsustainable. That is why the RFL has come up with this ridiculous 3 x 8 solution to soften the impact of being relegated.

The whole thing is a mess and designed to blur the lines between the fully professional elite and the rest.

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Before people can enjoy the "excitement" British rugby league needs to find a model that can commercially sustain itself. Promotion and relegation between a professional and a part time league is unsustainable. That is why the RFL has come up with this ridiculous 3 x 8 solution to soften the impact of being relegated.

The whole thing is a mess and designed to blur the lines between the fully professional elite and the rest.

Whereas the 'elite' has been able to sustain full time professionalism? Clearly not. Not a single person on here had questioned the standard of SL on the pitch, but clearly that's not been enough - licensing has failed the game which can't even attract a sponsor. Has SL become boring for those not involved? I've played, coached, lived and breathed RL for well over 50 years.....and I'm sad to say SL bores me! Edited by sheddings69
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Sorry but if Featherstone weren't being bankrolled by a benefactor they wouldn't be anywhere near getting into the Super League. Not a hope in hell.

How many SL clubs are in the same boat?

Good luck with your higher level of reasoned debate

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As has been mentioned before licensing/franchising isn't the problem

Sorry but if Featherstone weren't being bankrolled by a benefactor they wouldn't be anywhere near getting into the Super League. Not a hope in hell..

Mentioned before by people like you who spin propaganda in order to blame traditional clubs. Licensing as been a disaster, so I will spin it around debating with you is pointless.

As for my club, you really don't have a clue. Money from directors have without a doubt helped but the fact that we don't play in a rented stadium and all bar and food takings go back to the club really do give us a financial advantage. Without some financial support I am not naive enough to think that we could compete at the very top of SL but we would do better than some of the clubs in there at the moment.

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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Being realistic, you can't do anything for 50 years without it becoming boring at one point. It doesn't mean that whatever it is you are bored with is at fault, these things just happen sometimes.

I'm far from bored with RL mate. CH1 and the amateur game is great!

Perhaps you should give the game a rest? (Not being funny)

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Being realistic, you can't do anything for 50 years without it becoming boring at one point. It doesn't mean that whatever it is you are bored with is at fault, these things just happen sometimes.

Perhaps you should give the game a rest? (Not being funny)

Come of it John, so you are blaming the licence mess on boredom rather the actually product being boring. Scraping the barrel now aren't we

"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

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Oldham under Hamilton are only going one way, irrespective of whether P&R is in place or not. No need for excuses, only a moron would think this issue has anything to do with Oldham!

so who do you have in mind to replace him?

 

do you not see the irony in the fact that prom and reg was largely responsible for the decline of your club?

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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do you ever leave your keyboard and actually watch a game of rugby league. what do want from a game of rugby league if not excitement.. that is what the game is about, not all this debating/arguing over statistics and dodgy forecasts about clubs or the games demise.. passion and excitement are exactly what we want, not the sterile rubbish that's being served up at present

ah yes the relegation battles: 1983 a vintage year at your club for them, as well as cup glory.

 

a game of rugby league is exciting by definition.

was there no passion and excitement before 1973?

over a century of history and only 22 years of passion and excitement.

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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Before people can enjoy the "excitement" British rugby league needs to find a model that can commercially sustain itself. Promotion and relegation between a professional and a part time league is unsustainable. That is why the RFL has come up with this ridiculous 3 x 8 solution to soften the impact of being relegated.

The whole thing is a mess and designed to blur the lines between the fully professional elite and the rest.

if the pro and semi pro game disappeared tomorrow, i could still find excitement and passion watching fev lions. i will be watching cas 19s v london this afternoon and i am sure iwill see some good exciting rugby, and whilst i am watching it, i won't give a thought to beating the aussies.

joe mullaney is a god

the only good tiger is a stuffed tiger

oldrover.gif

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