Tetley’s Challenge Cup semi-final details confirmed

[Old Frightful]

Conspiracy theorists will see a desire to guide Hull through as the Wires fans are tiring of Wembley and Hull fans are desperate.

Terrific stuff...keep it up!

[gingerjon]

If London got 12k every game I'd have sympathy. They don't. I won't.

 

How big does a team need to be before it should be allowed a proper neutral venue its supporters can get to?

[Rascal Bongo Stork]

How big does a team need to be before it should be allowed a proper neutral venue its supporters can get to?

 

anything bigger than London would be the answer methinks. If a championship club from Yorkshire,for example,had bluffed their way through to the Semi's and they put them against Wigan at Leigh there would be open insurrection ;-)

[Dave T]

It's at times like this when the people who run our game really let themselves down. This is why most of us lack confidence in them.

Get out of the office and explain why:

1. They've chosen a venue that is not big enough (it would have to be a fantastic explanation by the way)

2. It's 10 minutes from Wigan and 5 hours from London & has awful travel links. This would have been a chance to give London some tangible (and low cost) support and have it at Doncaster.

It's a total disgrace and it kicks every London fan in the teeth. Has anyone got the decency to stand up and explain it......??

Whilst I don't think the Leigh choice is right, making things up weaken your argument.

 

1 - The venue will be big enough for this game. 

 

Look at Wigan's last semi finals - Against Saints (2011) there were empty seats at the HJ with a crowd of 12.7k.

Against Leeds (2012) there were 12.8k - two of the biggest teams in the game.

Against Wire (2010) - there were empty seats and Wire sold some of Wigan's allocation.

 

2 - It's not 5hrs from London. Looking at Google shows that from the Stoop to LSV it is 3hrs 15. It is pretty quick if you use public transport too.

 

Like I say, I don;t like the choice, but don;t weaken your own argument.

[Quinskolar]

Whilst I don't think the Leigh choice is right, making things up weaken your argument.

 

1 - The venue will be big enough for this game. 

 

Look at Wigan's last semi finals - Against Saints (2011) there were empty seats at the HJ with a crowd of 12.7k.

Against Leeds (2012) there were 12.8k - two of the biggest teams in the game.

Against Wire (2010) - there were empty seats and Wire sold some of Wigan's allocation.

 

2 - It's not 5hrs from London. Looking at Google shows that from the Stoop to LSV it is 3hrs 15. It is pretty quick if you use public transport too.

 

Like I say, I don;t like the choice, but don;t weaken your own argument.

Three hours 15 mins from the Stoop to Leigh?  is that at  3am at 75mph? More like 4hrs 30 mins if you are very lucky with traffic and parking. 

[gingerjon]

Three hours 15 mins from the Stoop to Leigh?  is that at  3am at 75mph? More like 4hrs 30 mins if you are very lucky with traffic and parking. 

 

The AA has it as a door to door without stopping for a slash of 3'40".  

 

Google is often quite (ahem) variable with its accuracy.

[Rascal Bongo Stork]

3 hours is highly optimistic for most of London's fans and if any of the 12 northern SL clubs fans were asked to travel over 3 hours to a semi they'd be spitting feathers. Then add to the fun by putting it a few miles away from the team they're playing and woof!

Anyway, I suppose it's all academic as I expect Wiggin to do Widnes and then tear the Broncos a new one wherever they play. But still, poor form.

[Dave T]

The AA has it as a door to door without stopping for a slash of 3'40".  

 

Google is often quite (ahem) variable with its accuracy.

Never had major issues with Google tbh - 212 miles in 3hrs 15 on motorways didn't set any alarm bells ringing.

[YCKonstantine]

We have had these games on BBC1 previously. Putting games on BBC will adversely affect viewing figures.

If we have made the decision that we want to keep this tournament on terrestrial TV, we should be looking for maximum exposure.

6pm on a Sunday evening on BBC 2 is not prime time.

It better not cut into Top Gear!

[gingerjon]

Never had major issues with Google tbh - 212 miles in 3hrs 15 on motorways didn't set any alarm bells ringing.

 

It seems more than a mite optimistic.

 

Plus even if it weren't it's at best a mere 180 minutes further away than London's opponents are travelling.

[Dave T]

3 hours is highly optimistic for most of London's fans and if any of the 12 northern SL clubs fans were asked to travel over 3 hours to a semi they'd be spitting feathers. Then add to the fun by putting it a few miles away from the team they're playing and woof!

Anyway, I suppose it's all academic as I expect Wiggin to do Widnes and then tear the Broncos a new one wherever they play. But still, poor form.

It is, but do you look to cater for 500 fans of one club, or 6-7k of another club?

 

It's okay anyway, I clicked the train button on Google and that ups the time to just shy of 7hrs!

[Dave T]

It seems more than a mite optimistic.

 

Plus even if it weren't it's at best a mere 180 minutes further away than London's opponents are travelling.

I don't think anybody agrees with the selection. 

 

The fact that Wigan will be able to pretty much have their usual routine bar the last couple of hours is a big advantage.

[Bomballey]

Whilst I don't think the Leigh choice is right, making things up weaken your argument.

1 - The venue will be big enough for this game.

Look at Wigan's last semi finals - Against Saints (2011) there were empty seats at the HJ with a crowd of 12.7k.

Against Leeds (2012) there were 12.8k - two of the biggest teams in the game.

Against Wire (2010) - there were empty seats and Wire sold some of Wigan's allocation.

2 - It's not 5hrs from London. Looking at Google shows that from the Stoop to LSV it is 3hrs 15. It is pretty quick if you use public transport too.

Like I say, I don;t like the choice, but don;t weaken your own argument.

Thanks Dave but I think it's bigger than quoting stats. If you are a London fan you are going to be totally hacked off.

We want you London fans to be part of things but if you want to safely make kick off time leave just after breakfast and you might just be home by bed time. It will cost you a lot of money in fuel, train tickets etc but that's what you get for being outside the M62 corridor. You should have thought of that.

On the bright side after your drive through 7 different cointies you could save money on parking & build inter club relations by asking a Wigan fan if you can park in their driveway and then walk to the ground with them.

If Catalan had made it through it would have been interesting.....

[gingerjon]

It is, but do you look to cater for 500 fans of one club, or 6-7k of another club?

 

To be honest I would have expected Wigan to take 6-7k wherever the match was played.  Asking them to travel 90 minutes or so for a properly neutral venue is hardly taxing.

 

I am curious as to why we need to take in the size of a club's support before deciding how fair to treat them in a competition though.

[gingerjon]

If Catalan had made it through it would have been interesting.....

 

Played at the Halliwell Jones wasn't it when Cats did Wigan in the semis?

[Rascal Bongo Stork]

I realise that getting the most people through the gates is the notion and this is the one that will do that but surely a semi final venue should be 'neutral'. This isnt and the only reason it's not a massive deal is that it's crappy little London who nearly nobody gives two hoots about. As I said before as it doesnt matter how far it is from Club A & Club B then they should have stuck it in a small ground in London, handed it over to the 'Big Hit' crowd and put some bums on seats.

[Dave T]

I realise that getting the most people through the gates is the notion and this is the one that will do that but surely a semi final venue should be 'neutral'. This isnt and the only reason it's not a massive deal is that it's crappy little London who nearly nobody gives two hoots about. As I said before as it doesnt matter how far it is from Club A & Club B then they should have stuck it in a small ground in London, handed it over to the 'Big Hit' crowd and put some bums on seats.

The 'Big Hit' crowd won't come cheaply.

 

It is a neutral ground, neither Wigan or London normally play there, although I do think it gives an unfair advantage.

 

People do give two hoots, I haven;t seen anybody claim it's a good choice, however the reason for it is that London are a basket case of a club and can't get a crowd to turn up so it could be very embarassing if it was played in London.

 

Even Warrington would have been a far better choice as it is on the West Coast line and is at least out of the Borough of Wigan!

[Spidey]

Played at the Halliwell Jones wasn't it when Cats did Wigan in the semis?

 

...and at Widnes when Wire stuffed them

[gingerjon]

The 'Big Hit' crowd won't come cheaply.

 

It is a neutral ground, neither Wigan or London normally play there, although I do think it gives an unfair advantage.

 

People do give two hoots, I haven;t seen anybody claim it's a good choice, however the reason for it is that London are a basket case of a club and can't get a crowd to turn up so it could be very embarassing if it was played in London.

 

Even Warrington would have been a far better choice as it is on the West Coast line and is at least out of the Borough of Wigan!

 

London were less of a basket-case of a club when the same thing happened in 1999.  This is how the RFL always seem to work and it's depressing to see it in action again.

 

There are any number of LSV-sized venues which would have been actually neutral and better for access.

[Southern Softie]

So much for a neutral venue, and for me attending. Just plain ridiculous.

[Just to be clear]

If we have made the decision that we want to keep this tournament on terrestrial TV, we should be looking for maximum exposure.

Just to be clear, I never realised the game was in such a position to make demands. In which case I am sorry for suggesting that being on the third most watched channel, and something only one other equivalent competition can claim, is a good thing. We should tell the BBC we would rather not be televised at all than appear on a channel beneath us.

I now also understand why people are suggesting the London v Widnes/Wigan semi final should be played at a venue like Walsall, were the cost more to hire it could end up being higher than the revenue we could earn.

It also explains why the Leigh Sports Village (a poor location regardless) is too small. Between them Wigan and Leeds could only attract just under 13,000 at Huddersfield. But replace Leeds with London, and potentially Wigan with Widnes, and the higher standard of those matches there is no chance the attendance could be 2,000 lower than one between the two best supported teams in the game, which would be enough to sell out the LSV.

[Just to be clear]

I am curious as to why we need to take in the size of a club's support before deciding how fair to treat them in a competition though.

Just to be clear, because the game is not flush with money and so wants to make a profit hosting games.

[gingerjon]

Just to be clear, because the game is not flush with money and so wants to make a profit hosting games.

 

Never knew the deck had to be rigged to keep the game going.

[Dave T]

Just to be clear, I never realised the game was in such a position to make demands. In which case I am sorry for suggesting that being on the third most watched channel, and something only one other equivalent competition can claim, is a good thing. We should tell the BBC we would rather not be televised at all than appear on a channel beneath us.

 

i didn't say anything about making demands - but let's also be clear that as a game we could probably make more money from selling the Challenge Cup to Sky, or maybe even ESPN. 

 

If we are deciding to keep it on terrestrial TV, then playing evenings on BBC2 isn't where we should be.

 

If these viewing figures are higher than when these have been televised on a Saturday afternoon on BBC1 then fair enough, but I doubt they are (getting viewing figs for the BBC games is difficult - people just usually lazily quote a million).

[Futtocks]

We have had these games on BBC1 previously. Putting games on BBC will adversely affect viewing figures.

The general pattern for weekend sport on the BBC is BBC1 on Saturdays and BBC2 on Sundays. BBC1 is only used for sport on Sundays when there's more than one sporting event running concurrently. 

 

The main exception is Formula 1 and is probably part of the broadcast deal. The weekend of the CC semifinals also sees the BBC televising World Championship Swimming and the Anniversary Games.