Dragons boss blasts RFL disciplinary process

[League Express]

Catalan Dragons coach, Laurent Frayssinous has expressed his frustration at seeing back rower, Zeb Taia, suspended on Tuesday evening by the RFL disciplinary tribunal for a grade C, reckless striking with the shoulder offence on Gareth O'Brien during Saturday's 26-6 defeat to St Helens.

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[MrFussy]

Hmm, an interesting read. I completely understand their frustration. The most obvious comparable incident which springs to mind is the Scott Taylor hit because it happened in our previous game and to the same player. Given the similarity I can see why they're annoyed, the precedent which was set when Taylor was cleared hasn't been followed here. I did personally feel that Taia's was the more clear cut of the two incidents though, there was more doubt involved in Taylor's case.

 

Given that O'Brien ended up with a head injury I'm struggling to see how there couldn't have been high contact, unless of course it happened as he hit the ground. I thought it was a bad hit (I'm admittedly a little biased) and think a three game ban is acceptable. I do think we need more consistency though, but appreciate that no two incidents are exactly the same which obviously presents difficulties.

 

I don't blame Brown for his comments in this instance. It's a distressing thing to see happen, especially in two games on the trot.

[GeordieSaint]

I haven't seen the Taia incident so can't really comment. However, the Catalans whenever I have seen them on TV etc do seem to get a raw deal compared to most teams.

 

NB - the Dragons have released the following video:

 

http://www.superleaguefans.com/videos/play/2CZiLnuaGpA/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Initial reaction is that they have a point...

Edited August 8, 2013 by GeordieSaint

[BBR]

The only conclusion I can think of is that rfl judged the last one as making contact with the head. However, two of those on the video look as bad if not worse.

[oiseau]

I haven't seen the Taia incident so can't really comment. However, the Catalans whenever I have seen them on TV etc do seem to get a raw deal compared to most teams.

 

NB - the Dragons have released the following video:

 

http://www.superleaguefans.com/videos/play/2CZiLnuaGpA/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Initial reaction is that they have a point...

Yes, they do have a point but this is nothing new - over the seasons some of the reffing displays (VR included) have been embarassing to say the least.

 

I'ts been going on for years and Toulouse had the same problems during their three-year stint in the Championship.

 

LF is right to finally say something, the fans as well as players and officials have been banging on about it for years.

 

I fear for Toulouse if they have to endure that kind of treatment in the future.

[South Wakefield Sharks]

Appeal dismissed. Can't find many people who think that an incident like that shouldn't result in the attacker having to sit out a few games.

[redjonn]

Sorry I think it was the right decision to ban him, in fact should have been longer.  I don't think the other one's shown in the "defence" video are at the same level as Zeb Taia tackle.    But even if you judge them close and then they should also have been banned and yep could consider themselves lucky, that should not mean that the RFL should not have banned him.   However I would disagree as in my opinion the others are marginal and in fact in some they do raise their arms as to try and tackle whereas the Zeb Taia was absolutely reckless with no attempt to use arms to tackle.

[South Wakefield Sharks]

I haven't seen the Taia incident so can't really comment. However, the Catalans whenever I have seen them on TV etc do seem to get a raw deal compared to most teams.

 

NB - the Dragons have released the following video:

 

http://www.superleaguefans.com/videos/play/2CZiLnuaGpA/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Initial reaction is that they have a point...

 

Quite a nice little video that. Well done the Dragons. Taia's tackle was still a disgrace, worse than all the others and he deserves the ban. Scott Taylor, I think can consider himself a lucky lad, but the others no comparison.

[Bostik Bailey]

Appeal dismissed. Can't find many people who think that an incident like that shouldn't result in the attacker having to sit out a few games.

I don't think that this is the issue here, the issue is that exactly the same offence occurred two weeks previously and no charge was brought by the disciplinary. A precedent was set,there were no directives from the RFL in the meantime, so why is the offence by a Catalan player deemed to be far more serious? This is at best incompetence, at worse corruption.

[Viking Warrior]

totally agree, scott taylor commits a serious shoulder charge on gaz o'brien and it is deemed penalty sufficient, whereas a dragons player commits the same offence on the same player and gets 3 matches...............teflon wigan once again.

[giwildgo]

Having viewed the video, the injustice is that Taia got a suspension not that the others didn't and should have. As far as I can see, none of the challenges involved clear contact with the head which is a critical distinction between a late tackle / shoulder charge being just a penalty or a dismissal under the current rules. Can't help thinking that Catalans may be getting a raw deal following the shocker on Fages, and the fact that Brown was bleating because it was O'Brien getting ko'd yet again. No one wants to see players get injured, but none of those challenges were comparable to the high and late ones such as McIlorum or Chase last year.

In general since the shoulder charge was 'banned', people are getting confused about what decision should follow when it happens. A shoulder charge is no different to a high tackle, in so far as it is by no means an automatic dismissal or foul play worthy of suspension.

[giwildgo]

totally agree, scott taylor commits a serious shoulder charge on gaz o'brien and it is deemed penalty sufficient, whereas a dragons player commits the same offence on the same player and gets 3 matches...............teflon wigan once again.

Taylor didn't get a suspension because it wasn't worthy of suspension. If you view the incident carefully, O'Brien is actually knocked out by incidental contact with his own player's hip rather than the shoulder charge.

The issue is the poor call in suspending Taia, not some paranoid and misguided anti Wigan drivel. Plenty of shoulder charges by most SL teams have had nothing more than a penalty this year.

[MrFussy]

Having viewed the video, the injustice is that Taia got a suspension not that the others didn't and should have. As far as I can see, none of the challenges involved clear contact with the head which is a critical distinction between a late tackle / shoulder charge being just a penalty or a dismissal under the current rules. Can't help thinking that Catalans may be getting a raw deal following the shocker on Fages, and the fact that Brown was bleating because it was O'Brien getting ko'd yet again. No one wants to see players get injured, but none of those challenges were comparable to the high and late ones such as McIlorum or Chase last year. In general since the shoulder charge was 'banned', people are getting confused about what decision should follow when it happens. A shoulder charge is no different to a high tackle, in so far as it is by no means an automatic dismissal or foul play worthy of suspension.

Agreed, but a deliberate and malicious high shot may well be worthy of a dismissal or ban so you'd have to say the same of a shoulder charge. I don't know how much malice there was in Taia's hit but it was clearly deliberate, but then again when isn't a shoulder charge? I find it hard to tell how much contact was made with the head from that angle but it certainly looks like there may have been some, which is supported by the Injury O'Brien sustained.

 

As I say I do sympathise with Catalans but think this is a very difficult area to assess. Although it wouldn't have made much difference here due to the uncertainty involved, I'd still like to see the outright ban on shoulder charges dropped and simply see attacks to the head heavily punished.

[Saint Toppy]

The best thing the RFL can do now to dig themselves out of the mess they've created is to change the rules to state categorically that any late shoulder charge will incur an automatic ban, and its just the length of the ban that will be determined by the severity of the hit.

 

I'd like to see an automatic 3 match ban with the disciplinary having the discretion to increase this to 12 matches.

It wouldn't take long for the players & coaches to get the message

[Bostik Bailey]

The best thing the RFL can do now to dig themselves out of the mess they've created is to change the rules to state categorically that any late shoulder charge will incur an automatic ban, and its just the length of the ban that will be determined by the severity of the hit.

I'd like to see an automatic 3 match ban with the disciplinary having the discretion to increase this to 12 matches.

It wouldn't take long for the players & coaches to get the message

Good suggestion

[GeordieSaint]

I don't think that this is the issue here, the issue is that exactly the same offence occurred two weeks previously and no charge was brought by the disciplinary. A precedent was set,there were no directives from the RFL in the meantime, so why is the offence by a Catalan player deemed to be far more serious? This is at best incompetence, at worse corruption.

 

Completely agree.

 

Taylor didn't get a suspension because it wasn't worthy of suspension. If you view the incident carefully, O'Brien is actually knocked out by incidental contact with his own player's hip rather than the shoulder charge. The issue is the poor call in suspending Taia, not some paranoid and misguided anti Wigan drivel. Plenty of shoulder charges by most SL teams have had nothing more than a penalty this year.

 

Not sure how you can be so certain by how O'Brien was knocked out; are you a trained doctor or expert?! As for the misguided anti-Wigan drivel, I don't think anyone has suggested that; maybe you are being paranoid? People are concerned as Catalans are about the lack of consistency in RFL decisions.

[Bostik Bailey]

This is not anti-Wigan drivel. If that was the case we would have been ranting after Taylor got no charge.

The point here is the blatant inconsistency of the RFL. Just put club loyalty aside (I know it's difficult ) and look at the two recent challenges. There is very little (nothing, in my view) difference between them.

[GeordieSaint]

This is not anti-Wigan drivel. If that was the case we would have been ranting after Taylor got no charge.

The point here is the blatant inconsistency of the RFL. Just put club loyalty aside (I know it's difficult ) and look at the two recent challenges. There is very little (nothing, in my view) difference between them.

 

Again, I completely agree.

[hindle xiii]

Cracking little video, I've no sound but I imagine it's Edith Piaf playing.

 

Each one of those deserved a ban IMO. But still, it's nice to see Catalan have their priorities right, sod O'Brien who got hit, it's Taia who's the victim here.

[Dave T]

The shoulder charge seems to have worked up a lot of people. Not all high tackles see bans. Shoulder charges are the same - each will be judged individually.

There can be no automatic ban.

[Bostik Bailey]

Cracking little video, I've no sound but I imagine it's Edith Piaf playing.

Each one of those deserved a ban IMO. But still, it's nice to see Catalan have their priorities right, sod O'Brien who got hit, it's Taia who's the victim here.

That is not the issue, they have their priorities right, all they are asking for is consistency.

In my opinion all the tackles ( possibly not the Ellis one ) deserved a ban. The RFL only decided to punish Catalan. The RFL are so inept in this case that they couldn't see that letting dangerous late challenges go unpunished they were letting precedents gather.

There was no directive between the Taylor one and the Taia one, therefore they were saying its open season.

By the way the amount of Saints fans who agree with Catalan, considering it was our player, proves the point.

[hindle xiii]

Did anyone see the feature on Boots N All?

 

It was a decent little insight, and astonishing considering it didn't have Sam Tomkins, anyway it continues next week.

[League Express]

Taia loses appeal against ban

Catalan Dragons player Zeb Taia has lost his appeal against a three match ban imposed on him by an RFL Disciplinary Tribunal earlier this week.
Taia was handed the three match ban, plus a £300 fine, after he was found guilty of committing a Grade C reckless striking with the shoulder offence during Catalan’s Super League Round 23 game against St Helens on Saturday August 3.
Taia appeared before a Disciplinary Tribunal again this evening to contest the severity of the suspension, but after taking all submissions into consideration, the committee deemed the original sanction of a three match ban appropriate and ordered the forfeit of a £200 appeal bond.

[League Express]

Laurent Frayssinous has responded to the RFL's disciplinary tribunal appeal hearing for Zeb Taia who have upheld the three game ban that was given to him on Tuesday evening.
Frayssinous stated "We are disappointed to hear that the RFL disciplinary tribunal has seen fit to confirm that Zeb Taia will miss our next three games. We are not happy about the decision after we put together what we thought was a balanced and reasonable appeal. We will keep a close eye on any decisions that go to the tribunal over the coming weeks.
"We are a strong club, we have a group of players who have a strong mentality and we have an excellent set of supporters. This will not grind us down, but only strengthen us to perform over the next few games and seal our place in the play-offs for when Zeb returns to our team."

[hindle xiii]

Catalan defend Julien Bousquet

 

It's not the first time they've cried foul play over their own teams foul play. Frayssinous, "I don't think it is a late challenge, but just perhaps the timing is out a little."

 

This is a Bet365 link where Frayssinous dismisses that Catalan get home favouritism, here.

 

Basically, they've got form when it comes to whinging.