Playing season debate thread (many merged threads)

[LordCharles]

This has over the last few days been widely circulated and goes to show that people are willing to now speak out..............................

 

 

 

 

Hello, this is Grahame from Hindley ARLFC Division 3 NCL.

 

I have written this letter recently to the League secretary as I think it is in the interest of the game for each club to make their thoughts and position clear. I sensed from the last delegates meeting that there was a significant number of clubs who,like ourselves, had not had enough of an opportunity to say what they think.

 

I would be interested to know if you think they same as myself and if so would ask you to send in your thoughts to David Lowe.

 

My motives are not to do with my own club but for the good of the sport in general but particularly at Adult Amateur age l in particular.

 

Regards

 

Grahame

 

 

 

 

Dear David

 

Would you please send me a reply to log you have at least received this e-mail, thanks.

 

We at Hindley are very pro RFL and a progressive club willing to try new things in the name of progress. We bought into the Summer concept early and were very positive trying to win other clubs over, believing it to be the way forward.

 

With regards to the Junior and Youth it has been a massive success no doubt about that at all and long may that continue.

 

With regards to Open Age I am surprising myself by saying that I do not think it works. It is having a dramatic effect on numbers of player participation.

 

Having tried it for several years I do not think that for Amateur Adult rugby , a summer competition is viable for most clubs and will kill the amateur adult game longer term or at least dramatically reduce the participation, which no one wants to see.

 

I agree with the anonymous proposal that was put in the press recently (see attached) as a new structure for the Adult game and strongly support it for the good of the amateur game.

 

The main reasons why I think we should not play in summer are:-

 

*   Summer is the time when a player can work and earn extra money at weekends, which is particularly required at this time, owing to the current economic situation, with disposable incomes becoming ever more squeezed.

 

*    Summer is when there are numerous non sporting events to go to and time for men to spend time with their family.

 

*    Summer  is the time of year when work is required to be done on houses etc and other domestic activities.

 

*    Summer is the time of year most holidays are taken.

 

*    Summer is the best time of year to have a break from playing rugby.

 

*    Summer is the time when rugby league is mainly played at Pro level and people want watch that and enjoy it and have a drink etc.. Attendance at games is likely to be affected currently owing to this.

 

*    Summer is the time of year when people want to watch football and to go to horse racing etc. and enjoy other sports

 

*    Summer is the best time for players to find more time to watch their kids play on Sundays because the have used Saturdays to do all the other thing they need to do at the weekend.

 

 

*    Winter is the best time to play Rugby as there are little or none of the above distraction/ needs and when there is time and so interest to play.

 

*    Winter is also when people have less other things to do and so spectators increase and so income generation is the best.

 

*    Winter would provide a great follow on for U18s players who finished the summer season and help retain them in the sport. They are young enough and fit enough to play through at that age.

 

I am genuinely shocked to see myself writing supporting winter as I was convinced 2/3 years ago that Summer as the way for RL in general and for the Adult game. Now with  experience of having done Summer, it is obvious that it is just not right for the Adult Amateur game.

 

With the Juniors and youth playing winter, this will provide the skill base for the program as required as a summer period requires to develop the summer skills and feed the pro game. When a player does not make pro by that age he is unlikely to do so and therefore playing in winter would suit those amateur sports men better as described above and so help and improve revenue for clubs over 12 months.

 

So for the good of the game, I hope this letter is taken on board along with others that say the same and see that it is best to go to winter. I realise it may go against the grain and current thinking of the RFL, but I hope that they are not so blind to see the uncomfortable truth in what I have written above. I hope they will get behind a move for Open Age Amateur competitions to move to a more winter based structure.

 

As for Hindley playing Summer next year, it is still being debated but I have to say it is not looking good at all.

 

Grahame Bentley

on Behalf of Hindley Open Age

 

[TaxiEgg]

Not Bowes

[TaxiEgg]

The survey says ??????

[LordCharles]

I believe one of the Humberside teams has also stated they would like to play Sept-May/June and submitted an alternative playing calendar as an official proposal to the NCL management.

 

It is very possible we could see quite a shift in the numbers who would prefer to return to a Sept-May/June playing format rather than remaining with the current March-November offering.

 

Based on feedback circulating from several clubs, I don't doubt for one minute there will be more than enough clubs for at least 1, but very possibly 2 divisions of 10/12 teams that will play in a Sept-May/June season should the NCL officially put such an option on the table.

[TaxiEgg]

I have been told yet to be confirmed that Millom are struggling with the summer season Muzza did highlight this before his switch to the pro game .

[Cutsyke Raiders]

I'm sure the 2 other Horsemen of the Apocalypse will be along soon  

[LordCharles]

I'm sure the 2 other Horsemen of the Apocalypse will be along soon  

 

Followed by the cavalry at various meetings in the next 4-6 weeks 

[samsung]

I believe one of the Humberside teams has also stated they would like to play Sept-May/June and submitted an alternative playing calendar as an official proposal to the NCL management.

 

It is very possible we could see quite a shift in the numbers who would prefer to return to a Sept-May/June playing format rather than remaining with the current March-November offering.

 

Based on feedback circulating from several clubs, I don't doubt for one minute there will be more than enough clubs for at least 1, but very possibly 2 divisions of 10/12 teams that will play in a Sept-May/June season should the NCL officially put such an option on the table.

Lord Charles, a simple question.  Why are you so concerned for the plight of the NCL clubs when your own club isn't even in the NCL?

[TaxiEgg]

It's not just about the NCL though is it it's about the whole game and the flagship league will only prosper if all around it is strong .

The problem is too many see this as a swipe at the flagship league, it's not the whole game is the issue here .

Samsung being honest as your club benefitted as the spin doctors promoted ?

The junior section as due to a lot of hard work from Mr Irvin . But what about the club as a whole ?

There is a genuine concern Samsung and burying heads in sand by people who are reluctant to take blinkers off in a perverse support of a concept that was all right in theory and ignoring the negative aspects is proving to be detrimental to the game as a whole .

[Defender1]

With only 10 fixtures throughout Yorkshire in YML, 1/3 of NWC Mens, 1/2 of NWC-16-18, 1/2 of North East League, 1/3 of South West League, all called off, only 7 fixtures in the 3 South East Leagues with no youth games, Call offs in the Midlands (Coventry Dragons?) with no youth fixtures, no fixtures in Scotland or Wales, summer breaks in most youth leagues, discontent in the NCL with my Local NCL club taking its lowest ever gate receipts, this really has been a season to remember, but do we carry on regardless?

[LordCharles]

Lord Charles, a simple question.  Why are you so concerned for the plight of the NCL clubs when your own club isn't even in the NCL?

Simple answer........because I, like many others understand the importance of having strong regional and national leagues that deliver well structured competition, strength in depth numbers wise, regular player availability and a high level of competitive consistency, particularly at Open Age level, if the sport is going to progress, remain attractive to youth players moving through the ranks and allow clubs and the sport expand as a result.

I want the sport to succeed and live in the real world everyday of the week, where getting players to training, out on the pitch for league fixtures, doing every other job going etc etc etc is getting harder by the minute, all of which is impacting on the sport at grassroots level and is taking a huge toll in certain areas and with all to much regularity for a lot of clubs.

We all make choices that sometimes don't work out the way we thought they might, but generally we all learn from those experiences and move on past them as a result and change what we are doing for the better. This IMHO needs to be the case for those clubs that are feeling the effects of playing during a season that is having an adverse effect on them. They need assistance, their issues need to be heard, recognised by the powers that be and solutions offered to address those problems if we want our sport to continually move forward.

[TaxiEgg]

Your missing the point Charlie boy the flagship league is ok the reserve teams and youth teams have been decimated but the first teams are ok .

There is nothing wrong because no one is big enough to admit they got it wrong .

[Back In The Good Old Days]

Since the move to summer our club has lost no fewer than 22 first team standard players.

We have had a number of players come through from our under 18s only for most of them to drift off due to lack of interest in playing during the summer they much prefer to be at every festival or other event that takes place during the summer. We have also lost our entire second team as a knock on effect of the above.

Trying to get a team together for an away game now is very trying to say the least with players getting told late that they have got to work rather than being asked to work.

I am not trying to be negative towards summer rugby and if that had been the case I would have hung up my coaching gear three years ago. What I am attempting to do is tell the story how it really is at the coal face.

There has to be an alternative for those clubs that either want one or need one or ultimately clubs are just gonna go to the wall.

I have played and coached in this great game for well over 30 years now and I can honestly say that the amatuer game at open age level is in big trouble.

[TaxiEgg]

At least you are being honest and painting the true picture , stubborn administrators not wanting to face reality and not wanting to upset the RFL is a major issue time for the clubs to stand up and protect the long term future of the game .

[Defender1]

After reading Trevor Hunts letter in the RLE it appears the NCL are a summer league and the only proposal's the management will listen to are to make the summer game better, not going back to a more traditional season. The summer game is now establishing itself and the management will help point the clubs in the right direction of where they have been going wrong in terms of increasing revenue and player retention, looks like more work for the volunteers.

It will be interesting to see who runs the league the clubs or the NCL Mangement

[terryg]

Anyone regularly see any of the league administrators at games?

[TaxiEgg]

Saw Trevor at a miners game last year and when the game kicked off and the ref was having a shocker and people commenting on our poor the crowd was he made an early exit .

Be interesting to see the managements proposals any one got any inclinations as to if and when they will be made available ?

[LordCharles]

Reading Trevor Hunts letter in the RLE today and its pretty clear about the way forward.......................

 

 

"The Kingstone Press National Conference League is a Summer based competition and will continue to be so for the foreseeeable future. The League operated under a three year licence with the RFL to administer what is now Tier 4 (the former Tier 3) of the RFL pyramid structure from 2012 to 2014".

 

"We undertook an electronic survey review to gauge the mood of clubs, administrators and players, the results of which have been made public and on the basis of which the NCL Management are leading the competition into its next three year agreement with the RFL, which will take it through to 2017 inclusive".

 

"The NCL are acutely aware that some clubs may feel unable to continue with summer, even if modified as below, and wish to participate in a winter competition at this Tier. Under the terms of the licence, the NCL is empowered to run a national winter competition if that was required. Such a competition would only commence at the end of the Summer season and would not recieve any additional funding for participants".

 

"No club has yet taken up my offer, made at the last meeting, to talk confidentially with them on this point".

 

"Your columnist states that the clubs have been asked to put forward other options for debate, which is simply not true. They have not been asked to put forward options for a return to winter competition at all".

 

"We are, of course, always willing to listen to any proposals for how we may better run the summer competition and facilitate clubs wishes for a free weekend, Bank holidays and Easter have been put forward by a couple of the clubs as a suggestion that they may be kept free. Or indeed for a subsidairy winter league. Neither is a short holiday break off the agenda".

 

"The publication from an 'unnamed grassroots stalwart' for what is effectively two 'seasons in a season' is interesting, but why is he 'unnamed'?".

 

"Contrary to Mr Hodgson's assertion, this will not be put forward for delegates to debate or otherwise at the meeting with clubs in September, because it is a proposal for a return to a winter based competition".

 

"The switch from winter to summer was never going to be an overnight success, but is very much what the game needed. It is starting to establish its roots firmly".

 

"The NCL is fully committed to working with its member clubs, administrators and players to make this a success, and to that end we are seeking ways to help them improve their revenue streams as well as their player attraction and retention rates".

[samsung]

It's not just about the NCL though is it it's about the whole game and the flagship league will only prosper if all around it is strong .

The problem is too many see this as a swipe at the flagship league, it's not the whole game is the issue here .

Samsung being honest as your club benefitted as the spin doctors promoted ?

The junior section as due to a lot of hard work from Mr Irvin . But what about the club as a whole ?

There is a genuine concern Samsung and burying heads in sand by people who are reluctant to take blinkers off in a perverse support of a concept that was all right in theory and ignoring the negative aspects is proving to be detrimental to the game as a whole .

Being honest, it hasn't benefitted my club - at open age level - at all.  It's almost a disaster.  And people are speaking out, although some people wouldn't choose this avenue as a platform.   In my opinion, comments by people who aren't involved in the NCL but who broadcast their opinions on how the NCL is being affected are simply dismissed.   

[TaxiEgg]

So all the more reason for clubs like yours to express your concerns reading the NCL chairs letter it appears no matter what you say your staying as a summer comp .

[TaxiEgg]

With a bit of smart administration you can still have a summer based comp it's just that Egos get in the way of problem solving .

[LordCharles]

Being honest, it hasn't benefitted my club - at open age level - at all.  It's almost a disaster.  And people are speaking out, although some people wouldn't choose this avenue as a platform.   In my opinion, comments by people who aren't involved in the NCL but who broadcast their opinions on how the NCL is being affected are simply dismissed.   

 

So in one sense you understand and in a way agree with certain views, but if they don't come directly from someone who is involved at NCL level then they are pointless?

 

I only wish that same principle was applied to anything the RFL discussed outside of the pro game!!!

[LordCharles]

Correspondence recently circulated............................

 

 

Dear District League member and amateur rugby league supporter

 

The Widnes ARL has for some time been concerned about issues at open-age level following the change to a summer playing season in the North West.

 

Recently we have heard and seen some of our well established local clubs struggling to raise a team. We read in the press that spectators at games have reduced in numbers and bar takings are down. If this continues our game locally and nationally will suffer greatly. 

We think this is a good time for District Leagues to show their worth and work together to try to address some of the issues. The Widnes ARL are offering to set up and fund if necessary a meeting of District Leagues with teams in the North West Mens League and the National Conference League to discuss the issues.

 

We have nothing to lose by meeting.

 

If there is sufficient support, we shall set up a meeting at an amateur club base at a mid-point of those interested in taking our game forward. Suggestions for the venue and suitable dates are welcome.

The agenda will simply be identifying issues, possible causes and trying to find suitable solutions to them. It is not aimed at destroying summer rugby and in fact could improve it if that is what you think is best. Former NWC and BARLA Chair Terry Parle has agreed to chair the meeting.

 

This email has been sent to the email addresses I could find easily and copied to the governing bodies. I could not find addresses for every league and some are from the BARLA website and may be incorrect. Please forward to the correct person if you notice an omission.

 

I have known many of you for a long time and believe that your skills and experience can only help bring about at least some improvement in the current situation and hopefully our help will be welcomed too by those leading our game.

 

Regards

 

Ian Woodward

[TaxiEgg]

Well done to the Widnes league .

[Defender1]

When is anyone at the RFL going to do something?

All the recent comments cannot be all from the pro traditional season lobby, if the summer switch has been so successful for the OA where are the all the positives to counter balance the argument