Playing season debate thread (many merged threads)

[Back In The Good Old Days]

We also have over 50 players signed on for our open age team whom have all played this season but struggle to get a regular 17 week in week out.

Dame lies and statistics - what's the difference?

[Bedford Roughyed]

Very easy

Start a masters team

Get 30-40 players to "sign on"

Only half a dozen training

Not yet to play a game.

That's 30-40 players on "the active playing register"

The easiest thing in the world to manipulate is statistics.

 

You can do that.  Get 100 more players to sign on while you are at it.  Make it 1000.

 

And it will make no difference to the Active Sports Survey figures. 

[Marauder]

And how do the RFL manipulate the Active Person survey?

 The RFL used to use (Could still be doing so) a system where you could register X number of players in your first season and the following season all you had to do was deregister any player/players who went to another club or if he was being replaced on the roster, this system could see you with a squad where half had probably never played a game but was still on the active list of participants.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Sports England don't use any list provided by the RFL. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

The Active Persons survey is carried out by an independent company on behalf of Sports England.

 

They call a random number of random phone numbers and ask whoever answers what sports they have done over the last so many weeks.  The RFL have no input.  They just have to sit back and hope someone mentions RL. 

 

The RFL can say NCL clubs have 500,000 players signed on the books, but the survey (used for funding) will still say 50,000 (or whatever).

 

For some reason Sports England don't trust NGB's to provide reliable figures.

[Marauder]

The Active Persons survey is carried out by an independent company on behalf of Sports England.

 

They call a random number of random phone numbers and ask whoever answers what sports they have done over the last so many weeks.  The RFL have no input.  They just have to sit back and hope someone mentions RL. 

 

The RFL can say NCL clubs have 500,000 players signed on the books, but the survey (used for funding) will still say 50,000 (or whatever).

 

For some reason Sports England don't trust NGB's to provide reliable figures.

 

The Active Persons survey is carried out by an independent company on behalf of Sports England.

 

They call a random number of random phone numbers and ask whoever answers what sports they have done over the last so many weeks.  The RFL have no input.  They just have to sit back and hope someone mentions RL. 

 

The RFL can say NCL clubs have 500,000 players signed on the books, but the survey (used for funding) will still say 50,000 (or whatever).

 

For some reason Sports England don't trust NGB's to provide reliable figures.

So if they phone a random number and not one of those numbers play/have played Rugby League you get a negative response, who thought up this system the RFL or the old school tie brigade.

[Bedford Roughyed]

So if they phone a random number and not one of those numbers play/have played Rugby League you get a negative response, who thought up this system the RFL or the old school tie brigade.

 

If no one they ring plays RL, then we would be classed as having 'not enough responses to be statistically valid' or some such phrase.  That would mean the RFL having a massive cut in funding.

 

The NGB's cant be trusted, so this is how Sports England track participation. 

[Marauder]

If no one they ring plays RL, then we would be classed as having 'not enough responses to be statistically valid' or some such phrase.  That would mean the RFL having a massive cut in funding.

 

The NGB's cant be trusted, so this is how Sports England track participation. 

So how can this system be trusted to produce a true reading for not only rugby league but any other sport, It looks like someone somewhere will be making a lot of money from doing a very lazy survey, who is controlling and scrutinising the people doing the survey.

[bowes]

Champions Wigan St Cuthbert's will defend The NWC   Winter League Championship,What other Teams are entering? 

Golborne Parkside, Higginshaw, Clock Face Miners and Halton Simms Cross are the names I've heard

[mr chairman]

A lot of people at leigh east think there is a bigger issue than winter summer . They think the pro clubs are decimating teams at u14 upwards to fill the academies our u16 have lost 9 players and they are now taking kids from our u/14s

[mr chairman]

I have also been informed that St. Helens take players at 14 and tell them to go and play for Thatto Heath scandalous if true

[LordCharles]

I might be slighty out on the 15's but I but the figures for Thatto I think are 14 scholars at U15's and 16 scholars at U16's.

 

The interesting stat would be how many of that total of 30 have been at Thatto since they were U12's or below?

[bowes]

I have also been informed that St. Helens take players at 14 and tell them to go and play for Thatto Heath scandalous if true

The RFL I think are trying to make SL clubs support a minimum 4 clubs in their local area. Now this would work well in say Leeds where the player base could support a 2 tier set up but in say a medium sized town with 6 clubs running juniors the 2 that are left out would in all likelihood fold.

[LordCharles]

The RFL I think are trying to make SL clubs support a minimum 4 clubs in their local area. Now this would work well in say Leeds where the player base could support a 2 tier set up but in say a medium sized town with 6 clubs running juniors the 2 that are left out would in all likelihood fold.

 

Your behind the times Bowes that initiative (PDC's - Player Development Clubs) has been scrapped at the request of the Y&J Leagues and the SL Clubs.

 

So on that basis I am unsure what point you are looking to make relative to SL Clubs encouraging youth/junior players to migrate to one club within a particular area, those players just happening to be on said SL Clubs Scholarship program.

[georgehadgingerhair]

I might be slighty out on the 15's but I but the figures for Thatto I think are 14 scholars at U15's and 16 scholars at U16's.

 

The interesting stat would be how many of that total of 30 have been at Thatto since they were U12's or below?

The management of any amateur rugby club who allow this should seriously sit down and think.

Do they think their club will benefit from this long term I doubt it. The kids who have signed the

scholarship but do not succeed  do you think they will stay at that club or go back to their previous clubs.

The worst part of this is the loyalty shown by the club to the lads who have played there from an early age

all you can presume is the people who make these decisions do not have kids playing in these ages unless

they are in the scholarship.

Then clubs wonder why all of a sudden they start to struggle for first team players.

This is not a new situation many teams have done it previously in junior rugby by coaches poaching players

to create a super team who win everything. But normally a coach who does this relies on the kids individual

talents and does not improve there skills and when the bubble bursts they all disperse and leave. Then the

club again wonders why they are short of players and why the original players will not come back.

Basically if you want players to be loyal to clubs then the clubs should be loyal to them.   . 

[TaxiEgg]

Think the regional league need to take a lead on this and restrict the movement of players or at least attempt to administer the rules as per their constitution .

We have had two lads leave our 13s and move from Leigh to Blackbrook both players I am led to believe have been receiving coaching at St Helens .

[TaxiEgg]

Think the regional league need to take a lead on this and restrict the movement of players or at least attempt to administer the rules as per their constitution .

We have had two lads leave our 13s and move from Leigh to Blackbrook both players I am led to believe have been receiving coaching at St Helens .

[mr chairman]

Nothing wrong in St. Helens coaching them the big problem is that they think they own them and take over their life

[TaxiEgg]

It is Keith if it unsettles kids and they leave a club they have been well looked after and developed  for the promise of a scholarship at under 15s clearly in breach of all current RFL policies .

[mr chairman]

I disagree mick it enhances the players skills and done in the correct manner is fine by me , I know what you mean that's why I said its wrong that the pro clubs think they own them

[TaxiEgg]

How does moving clubs enhance skills Keith ?

You can't say it's wrong to move to Thatto and in the same breath say its ok to move to Brook .

[mr chairman]

Didn't say that what I said was nothing wrong with training with a pro club as pro clubs usually have good coaches .but the pro clubs must remember that they don't own those kids and fill their heads with ###### . On the same thought amateur clubs don't own those kids

[LordCharles]

Didn't say that what I said was nothing wrong with training with a pro club as pro clubs usually have good coaches .but the pro clubs must remember that they don't own those kids and fill their heads with ###### . On the same thought amateur clubs don't own those kids

Unfortunately Keith it's coming...................

The introduction of a Scholars "Primary Registrar" is on the horizon, consequently the "Primary Registrar" will determine the training and playing schedule of any Scholar!!!!!

[Marauder]

Think the regional league need to take a lead on this and restrict the movement of players or at least attempt to administer the rules as per their constitution .

We have had two lads leave our 13s and move from Leigh to Blackbrook both players I am led to believe have been receiving coaching at St Helens .

Elite team building, it cost us two teams and a complete set of junior coaches who threw the towel in.

[mr chairman]

Must admit I don't like the way it's going mick did say it would happen and it as the next age groups to be hit will be u/12sit will kill my amateur club unless some one does something about it