luckymutz Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Dear me Mutz, which nest have you landed in mate cos you're talking cuckoo. Here's a short history lesson which may put you in the picture as to why BARLA will never again be a force. BARLA allowed the NCL to walk away and form it's own management which in turn now dances to the RFL tune. Yorkshire Juniors walked away from BARLA to become it's own entity which again does the same jig, with the RFL as bandmaster. North West Counties were taken over virtually overnight by the RFL with no intervention or inclination from BARLA to assist the league. And as for Hull ARL, they've been ignored by BARLA for years now, it's only recently that the BARLA Chair/Pennine Secretary has afforded any attention to the East Coast and that was on behalf of the RFL. More positively however, Cumbria have built a success with their BARLA funded initiative, however not one of the present BARLA executive can claim any success for this. Hi Nev v Dawn, some more facts for you, before the NCL went on their own which same as the Yorkshire Juniors could not be stopped as they would have gone their anyway with all the promises of the RFL. In the late 80`s and early 90`s there was over 500 teams playing on the M62 corridor, now we are down to 200 plus, this is within BARLA, NCL and the RFL at amateur level. you may think im talking rubbish but that tells me that the amateur game is dying and that is nothing to do with BARLA, Pennine, NCL and the RFL, that's to do with the way of life in kids now, over 100 pitches in Leeds have gone in the last 5 years at Football, Rugby, Cricket and Union and now there is plans to take 3 more fields with another 10 pitches gone. Barla also stuck with the Hull & District league when sanctions were asked to be put on them and Barla said no. You are saying what has Barla done for the Districts and Club, Ill ask what is the RFL doing for them, Same as Barla, Plus the Cumbria League have been supported by Barla since they started. Sorry to say but Amateur Rugby League is Dying and unless all parties can pull together then it will continue to die, going summer is not going to get more people playing as the same that was playing winter are now playing Summer. P.S. Nev, I was in the middle of the Yorkshire juniors pull away and I know why they did it, Barla do not run regional leagues and never have and the regional leagues under the RFL are not run by the RFL but by Committee members who Work/Volenteer to do this job same as the Pennine and Hull playing leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev V Dawn Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hi Yorks Bird, I wish it was that simple but it isn't, The RFL will be running summer and BARLA winter, it would be good to have a cutoff date and have a start date, Summer April to September and Winter September/October till March/April, winter would have to be longer as Xmas & New year and of course the weather. the National cup could be a pre season run up to the NCL & Summer starting, after the first few rounds it would then be played on a bank holiday weekend where the NCL now do not play. this would not be all teams as we would be down to the last 8 after February. The Mens Leagues could make way at the end of their season for the County Cups and the final would be played earlier than it is now. August-November. Well Mutz I beg to differ as it is really quite simple, just implement the following rule which shows in the current BARLA constitution and the problem is solved; (24.14) A Player duly recognised on the official register of a Barla Regional League Club and wishing to participate in a summer based competition organised by and falling under the auspices of the Rugby Football League must as a pre-requisite of doing so fulfil his Barla obligations before being allowed to register with a summer based club I'm sure that with your [bARLA's] splendid working relationship with the RFL, this rule would be readily accepted and implemented. You never fail until you stop trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronx Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Looking back at your threads - it clearly shows you do not have the interest of the game at heart It looks like you are a constant mischief maker - something the amateur game can do without Makes one wonder if you are not part of the RFL as the above Barla rule you quote has not been adhered to for some 5+ years!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev V Dawn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Looking back at your threads - it clearly shows you do not have the interest of the game at heart It looks like you are a constant mischief maker - something the amateur game can do without Makes one wonder if you are not part of the RFL as the above Barla rule you quote has not been adhered to for some 5+ years!!!! Welcome to the forum Bronx, albeit for you to have a direct rant on my observations. It's slightly flattering however that you see fit to review my posts. As for mischief making my friend, that's a mighty red rag that you're waving with such a few negative words. You never fail until you stop trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymutz Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well said Bronx, This rule (24;14) was brought out some years ago before Barla signed the Operational rules and as the RFL and BARLA stated you can not make a player stay at one club, if he gets a transfer then there is nothing or nobody that can stop him. If a club has nothing to play for then players will leave towards end of the season either Winter to Summer or Summer to Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev V Dawn Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well said Bronx, This rule (24;14) was brought out some years ago before Barla signed the Operational rules and as the RFL and BARLA stated you can not make a player stay at one club, if he gets a transfer then there is nothing or nobody that can stop him. If a club has nothing to play for then players will leave towards end of the season either Winter to Summer or Summer to Winter. Wouldn't this stop the player moving then Mutley; (25.6) All players at open age, youth and junior age levels must fulfil all financial obligations to their current club or team before any transfer to another club including professional clubs will be permitted. This also applies to a player wishing to sign for a different club in future seasons. You never fail until you stop trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronx Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think the rules you are referring to went out of the window in around 2003 when unification was agreed Under the human right act - players are amateurs and cannot be made to comply Most playing leagues don't abide by Barla rules as they come under RFL playing leagues who make up rules to suit themselves which in turn is closing down the traditional playing leagues and teams Too much choice in when and where they can play or lack of commitment from players and disrespect to the guys who work hard running clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Championship 1 appears to be being split into division 1 west and east with 6 and 5 teams respectively. Aside from the fact that division 1 is separate the other issue is that Bentley Good Companions in the east division are summer bound and seem to be no longer bothering with winter games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Nice one Bowes another team persuaded to go to the new Alternative season from the Traditional season where are all the new teams David Gent promised? Rob Peter to pay Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Nice one Bowes another team persuaded to go to the new Alternative season from the Traditional season where are all the new teams David Gent promised? Rob Peter to pay Paul A large percentage of the Pennine league voluntarily chose to go summer this year so you have to respect that wish. I expect wanting to play the same season as the juniors must be a factor amongst many others. Whether there's new teams or not isn't the issue, it is a club freely deciding another league is better for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymutz Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Wouldn't this stop the player moving then Mutley; (25.6) All players at open age, youth and junior age levels must fulfil all financial obligations to their current club or team before any transfer to another club including professional clubs will be permitted. This also applies to a player wishing to sign for a different club in future seasons. Yes this does stop players moving as in football and union, all obligations as in if they owe monies to a club must be paid before transfer is allowed. Barla are now working with the RFL on a database that says which players can move where, the signing on form is for everyone now and must be signed by the leaving club secretary to say he owes nothing financially , if he does the secretary does not sign it then it goes to a transfer board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymutz Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Nice one Bowes another team persuaded to go to the new Alternative season from the Traditional season where are all the new teams David Gent promised? Rob Peter to pay Paul Your right Defender1, no new teams are playing but they are saying we have more players now cause most play summer for one team and winter for another as well as all winter teams going summer. they are counting the players twice to make it look good, most clubs will come back to winter. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Your right Defender1, no new teams are playing but they are saying we have more players now cause most play summer for one team and winter for another as well as all winter teams going summer. they are counting the players twice to make it look good, most clubs will come back to winter. . One look at what's been happening in the last few weeks would suggest this situation isn't sustainable. I don't think there will be as many clubs switch back to winter this time as too many clubs seem to be switching early to have intentions of a return. I think the Pennine league would be better consolidating to 50-60 clubs but them being proper winter ones rather than letting summer clubs play 2/3 of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Bowes you are right clubs are free to choose but when you have the governing body championing the Alternative season and the Penine/BARLA secretary allegedly now saying "is it not now time to switch to summer" you can understand why clubs are moving. You never answer my statement of why we appear not to be attracting new teams or clubs if the new Alternative is that good David Gent said switch and it will increase participation where is the increase? In Yorkshire last week there was one under 18 fixture and 5 under 17 fixture with a number of u16s called off, this is the start of the season and will only get worse, it was the Yorkshire Juniors who advertised they had 12 under 18 teams you wil have seen my earlier post saying approximately 98 clubs finished the last Winter Yorkshire Combination league, wil the RFL be proud of these figures? In Hull 2 teams have dropped out of the Hull and District League and have gone to the alternative season, both had disagreements with the league, in the past these may have been resolved, now they have an alternative, should the Hull league have been a bit lenient? In the Pennine teams joined the NCL to better themselves, funny how teams have dropped out of the elite league with all the benefits playing should have brought more players, more revenue, better standards, has any of this happened? Again clubs did not agree with the Pennine committee and chose to go to the alternative season in the past they would not have had a choice, so differences may have been resolved, I am sure the Community Board will be rubbing their hands with the clubs changing. I would say do the Hull and Pennine committee need to change their attitude, are the leagues actively trying to attract new teams or the benefits of playing in their league, I think not. In the 2010-12 strategy plan the RFL said by 2012 the community game will have 122,000 players, 2013 they went to print saying there were 53,000, in 2014 the RFL have now admitted to 46,000 players even though Sports England say 32,000, Nigel Wood says we will have 66,000 players by 2021, who is accountable for this debacle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Mirfield Stags, Knottingley Worms, Huddersfield YMCA, Manchester Rangers, Runcorn, Garswood Stags and the reformation of Bolton Mets and Orrell St James. I'm deliberately not counting the entry league. I think things are slowly picking up in the North West now the dust is settled. I don't for a minute believe the propaganda about massive expansion but I do believe that compared to the way the winter game is going that the summer game is slowing the decline or even grinding it to a halt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Mirfield Stags, Knottingley Worms, Huddersfield YMCA, Manchester Rangers, Runcorn, Garswood Stags and the reformation of Bolton Mets and Orrell St James. I'm deliberately not counting the entry league. I think things are slowly picking up in the North West now the dust is settled. I don't for a minute believe the propaganda about massive expansion but I do believe that compared to the way the winter game is going that the summer game is slowing the decline or even grinding it to a halt You seem to have better records than me so name a few clubs that have folded, would think more.I ask questions in posts but never get answers, there has been a 25% decline in the NWC league since the switch to summer, RFL figures say 53,000 in 2013, Nigel Wood says 46,000 in 2014 is that not a decline, or in your terms it may be a grinding halt, please don't forget switch to increase why has this not happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I never claimed to believe in a switch to increase. More clubs have folded since the switch but these are disproportionately winter clubs. I'll do a list if you want later? But I'll stick to the heartlands to make it a fair comparison I support a switch to summer so everyone from Super League down to juniors is playing one season and because the Pennine league is really struggling because players would rather play summer. The point you're missing is switch to increase is irrelevant. Players voting with their feet for summer is more important than any statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiEgg Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 One fit does not suit all !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghExile Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 One fit does not suit all !!!!! And one suit does not fit all either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I never claimed to believe in a switch to increase. More clubs have folded since the switch but these are disproportionately winter clubs. I'll do a list if you want later? But I'll stick to the heartlands to make it a fair comparison I support a switch to summer so everyone from Super League down to juniors is playing one season and because the Pennine league is really struggling because players would rather play summer. The point you're missing is switch to increase is irrelevant. Players voting with their feet for summer is more important than any statistic. 1st Point You may never have claimed a switch but David Gent did and that is what he sold to everyone, a growth in Participation, Revenue, Standards, has this happened? Please include all the teams out of the Heartlands in your teams folded as these have only known summer in the main, as I say if its that good why is it not booming, even you admit London is struggling, them poor lads in Scotland trying to get a game you feel for them, if they had gained devolution they may have been able to set up their own NGB and got somewhere. 2nd Point You would think it makes sense and everyone playing the same time would be great, Super League started in February and will finish in October without a break, so why is the community game not following this, teams out of the heartland playing May to August, some leagues looking at reducing the playing season because they still have players playing RU, I think alot of the reason clubs are playing the alternative season is for the reason I quote above. 3rd Point The switch is relevant as this has caused pain without any gain, players are voting with their feet you are correct, even the RFL agree a drop from 53,000 to 46,000 year on year players are definately voting with their feet, you tell me where unfortunately it aint playing RL. My Point As you appear to have all the records please tell me all the new clubs and teams that have started in the last 3 years without a connection to a winter league in the past, that includes the NWC OA as they chose to go from Winter to Summer, and have ended up with 25% less teams, your favourite Merit league may increase that figure but even David Gent says "we want stronger clubs" not part time, the point of the switch "you will have that many players you won't know what to do with them", increasing teams and clubs, a simple question why has this not happened?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Going to be tough to do without knowing this year's merit league line ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Going to be tough to do without knowing this year's merit league line ups Confirmed Merit League members (more still welcome) Burnley & Pendle Burtonwood Bridge A Chester Gladiators A Haresfinch A Langworthy Reds Mancunians Orrell St James A Southport Storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Surprised Liverpool Lions aren't in. Though there is an entry league below this as well, would have thought they'd be there with a few other mainly second and third teams but also with Manchester Canalsiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Just on the main leagues for the North West I make it a net loss of 7 open age sides from summer and 6 from winter since 2012 (not counting clubs who've joined and left). Proportionately that's a much bigger loss from winter New to summer (5): Orrell St James Rylands Sharks A Garswood Stags Manchester Rangers Bury Broncos A Folded in summer (12) Bold Miners Ince Rose Bridge A Warrington Wizards Blackbrook A Waterhead A Newton Storm Wigan St Cuthberts A Wigan Riversiders Saddleworth Rangers A Hindley A Irlam Hornets Folly Lane A Lost from winter (6): West Bank Swans Albert Park Leigh East B Rochdale Mayfield B Higginshaw Eccles A NB: Eccles A and Irlam Hornets switched season so I've put them in their most recent season NB: Langworthy Reds have dropped out of the main leagues but not folded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronx Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Pennine minutes have been circulated, no mention of the secretary or anyone stating time to move to summer. Fact: Pennine and Hull can only run winter rugby Too many speculations from people spreading false information causing mayhem within the game - who needs the RFL to destroy the game we have enough people doing a good job on their behalf!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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