Spidey Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 6 teams playing 10 games isn't a league it's a tournament. Not a viable option at all. I don't see the relevancy of your question as clubs voluntarily have mostly switched to summer. End of. Bradford DH are a good example of switching early into a competition that wasn't the same in terms of numbers/competitiveness. Their experience certainly put us off switching until the majority were willing to move which we were glad when NCL took the leap along with majority of NW clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bradford DH are a good example of switching early into a competition that wasn't the same in terms of numbers/competitiveness. Their experience certainly put us off switching until the majority were willing to move which we were glad when NCL took the leap along with majority of NW clubs The top half of the league were about their standard but the bottom half was too flaky and clubs were calling off games and dropping out. They were right to switch back but only came I think 6th from 10 their last NL3 season. That was our last season for a while at that level as well but sadly for different reasons. Your point is very valid though and I expect most other clubs felt the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bowes is the man with the statistics, cannot remember which amateur club was advertising the other day but it was over 100 years old, won't be many of them Millom, Victoria Rangers and Underbank Rangers are the clubs that come to mind but I believe there are others. There aren't many old clubs in Lancashire as all the local district leagues bar Warrington collapsed by the 1970s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 In my opinion the numbers would have declined had the game stayed in winter anyway. I believe the move to summer is the correct decision, to align the professional, amateur and junior games. It is much better for the children too. What I do agree with though is that the whole thing needs pulling into line and organising and admitstrating properly, there needs to be a lot more investment and help and advice given to community clubs. Out of interest how many teams have formed in summer and have only ever played summer and are still around would you say? In the heartlands Manchester Rangers, Garswood Stags, Runcorn, Liverpool Lions, Mancunians, Southport Storm (this incarnation), Manchester Canals ideas, York Lokomotive, Leeds Akkies, Mirfield Stags, Huddersfield YMCA, Sheffield Hallam Eagles and Aspatria Hornets (this incarnation) are the ones I can think of. Scarborough Pirates and Chester Gladiators have mostly played summer.Outside of the heartlands everyone except Durham Tigers, Derby City, Birmingham Bulldogs, Leicester Storm, St Ives Roosters, Hemel Stags, St Albans Centurions, Eastern Rhinos and Elmbridge Eagles. Though Peterlee Pumas briefly played in winter after starting as a summer club and Whitley Bay Barbarians were based on an earlier winter club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 So London, South West, Scotland etc dont have leagues any more just tournaments, shall we call them Merit Tournaments So you have no answers to the Question why has there not been a massive influx of new players, teams and clubs because of all the benefits of Summer Rugby Let's rephrase the question. Would you enter Myton into a winter league that only had 10 fixtures if it were the right playing standard and pull out of the NCL to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Let's rephrase the question. Would you enter Myton into a winter league that only had 10 fixtures if it were the right playing standard and pull out of the NCL to do so? No because we ran NCL and 2 winter OA teams but have decided not enter the Merit to give the lads abreak also due to other teams not fulfilling fixtures last year, we have other things set for games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Millom, Victoria Rangers and Underbank Rangers are the clubs that come to mind but I believe there are others. There aren't many old clubs in Lancashire as all the local district leagues bar Warrington collapsed by the 1970s Crosfields won the Warrington Works Cup in 1904 we say established circa 1901 as we're not 100% sure of the exact year. Rylands claim pre 1900 and I'm sure Crosfields are the same as they had to play against somebody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The clubs still here since 1975-76 in Lancashire (excluding Barrow, Oldham and Rochdale) Pilkington Recs Wigan St Patricks Crosfields Widnes St Maries Halton Simms Cross Leigh Miners Rangers Latchford Albion Blackbrook Eccleston Lions Woolston Rovers Folly Lane Rylands Not many outside of Warrington and St Helens Don't know when the St Helens and Widnes teams joined but St Patricks started open age (they are older as a youth club) in the 60s and Leigh Miners Welfare a little later. Many of the Warrington clubs are old. Sadly Bold Miners would have been on that list too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypark Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Wigan St Cuthberts won the Nwc Div 3 in 75 76 and have played in every season since pulling out of Ncl last Season but continuing in the Nw men's league now in Div 1 Nw mens league will celebrate 40 years of Open Age Rugby next year Don't think Ecclestone should be on your list Bowes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bowes, Bentley aren't switching to summer, what is happening if you'll listen, Bentley GC have played out of Wheatley Hills RUFC for the past few years, Wheatley have players in their Ranks like Johnny Woodcock, Tom Buckenham and a few more who have played at pro level, Bentley are simply going to give these and a few other players a summer jolly. Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The clubs still here since 1975-76 in Lancashire (excluding Barrow, Oldham and Rochdale) Pilkington Recs Wigan St Patricks Crosfields Widnes St Maries Halton Simms Cross Leigh Miners Rangers Latchford Albion Blackbrook Eccleston Lions Woolston Rovers Folly Lane Rylands Not many outside of Warrington and St Helens Don't know when the St Helens and Widnes teams joined but St Patricks started open age (they are older as a youth club) in the 60s and Leigh Miners Welfare a little later. Many of the Warrington clubs are old. Sadly Bold Miners would have been on that list too Teams used to change names as they moved their headquarters and many of us who have followed the amateur game has it unfolded can put new names to old one without looking in a book for a family tree.. Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Let's rephrase the question. Would you enter Myton into a winter league that only had 10 fixtures if it were the right playing standard and pull out of the NCL to do so? Hull Premier division used to run with less than 10 teams years ago (Look in your book or phone a friend) Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Wigan St Cuthberts won the Nwc Div 3 in 75 76 and have played in every season since pulling out of Ncl last Season but continuing in the Nw men's league now in Div 1 Nw mens league will celebrate 40 years of Open Age Rugby next year Don't think Ecclestone should be on your list Bowes Eccleston Lions were originally United Glass Blowers Sorry my mistake, I've rechecked and it was the 1974-75 season I was thinking of Division 1 1/ Pilkingtons Recs 2/ Widnes St. Maries 3/ Halton Simms Cross 4/ Wigan St. Patricks 5/ Crosfields 6/ Leigh Miners Welfare 7/ Latchford Albion 8/ Blackbrook 9/ United Glass Blowers (UGB) 10/ Langworthy. Division 2 1/ Woolston Rovers 2/ St. Helens B 3/ Tetleys 4/ Folly Lane 5/ Kirkby Rangers 6/ Richmonds Gas 7/ Thames Board Mills (TBM) 8/ Salford B Division 3 1/ Bold Miners 2/ Salford Juniors 3/ Widnes B 4/ Rylands 5/ Leigh Miners Welfare A 6/ Widnes RNA 7/ ICI Thornton 8/ Blackbrook A 9/ Pilkingtons Recs A 10/ Fiat 11/ Church Street Labour Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Bowes, Bentley aren't switching to summer, what is happening if you'll listen, Bentley GC have played out of Wheatley Hills RUFC for the past few years, Wheatley have players in their Ranks like Johnny Woodcock, Tom Buckenham and a few more who have played at pro level, Bentley are simply going to give these and a few other players a summer jolly. They're entering two summer teams (they only field one in winter) and one of the sides is in division 1 which isn't exactly the level for a jolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hull Premier division used to run with less than 10 teams years ago (Look in your book or phone a friend)9 this season of which 2 pulled out early.I think the Yorkshire (but not North West) part of the RLC was becoming proper divisions by the end, the east division the last season and some of the premier divisions in years before were up to 8 teams which isn't unheard of in winter. I still think clubs were put off from switching by the lack of a strong set up, until this year I think that still was a factor in Yorkshire to a lesser degree. I don't think 10 games in a row May to July of which 7 or 8 will go ahead can fairly be compared to say a 14 game league plus four cups spread over seven months, even if more teams and games is preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLad Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Bowes, Bentley aren't switching to summer, what is happening if you'll listen, Bentley GC have played out of Wheatley Hills RUFC for the past few years, Wheatley have players in their Ranks like Johnny Woodcock, Tom Buckenham and a few more who have played at pro level, Bentley are simply going to give these and a few other players a summer jolly. I can assure you Bentley arnt joining for a '' Summer Jolly '' as you put it. The side will be made up by the majority of the current winter players and the club as a whole is looking forward to the transition across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassey Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 dont know where you get your info from bowes most of it cr ap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 dont know where you get your info from bowes most of it cr apNo it isn't. Not going to respond further to that as not fair on the other posters here to have a pointless slanging match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 This season got even more bizarre. After cancelling games so the Championship 1 division could split west and east the league then decided to re merge the divisions albeit with an even bigger backlog. Bentley are gone now (to summer) so ten teams remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutsyke Raiders Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 This season got even more bizarre. After cancelling games so the Championship 1 division could split west and east the league then decided to re merge the divisions albeit with an even bigger backlog. Bentley are gone now (to summer) so ten teams remain The clubs argued to reform the division as for some their season would end immediately. As some fixtures would roll into June, due to a possible lack of officials due to summer rugby commitments, clubs may finish playing at the end of April. Any fixtures remaining would be classed as 30-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Hopefully next season will be more settled, though a lot of clubs will need to move up to the premier division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymutz Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Everyone knows the problems the Pennine League has had this season, if the NCL had not poached half of the Premier teams it would still have been a good league but which other leagues in the country could they have got the teams from? The Hull clubs would not want the travel and the Cumbria teams are the same, Any NWC teams entering in the bottom NCL division would be in Yorkshire every other week. Pennine teams are neutral for the travel and was good enough to enter. Next season will be a good season as teams are now interested in the Premier Division and all teams will have settled and decided where they want to play. I think myself a few more will drop out of the NCL (not saying the teams that have just gone in) and a few will return from the Yorkshire mens league. The Amateur game in itself as I keep saying is struggling, Youth players are not interested and dwindling fast, Open age players now have work commitments that years ago most players had the weekend off or just worked the Saturday morning but now Saturday and Sunday is a work day as well as the pressure of not getting injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender1 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 At the moment only 6 under 18s teams playing consistently in Yorkshire, lots of under 18s playing Yorkshire Mens, Pennine, NCL and Hull it is not sustainable no wonder the OA is struggling, nearly all the summer teams players will have played winter, then summer, then winter its a merry go round with the same players But do the RFL listen, NO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I agree they need to work out a way to get all players to pick a season and stick with it and of getting U18s back into that age group. Unfortunately lots of clubs would die or have to merge in the required shake up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Bowes, its not the season reducing the number of Under 18's playing its the pure lack of aspiration after 16 and the sooner the Pro Game sees it the sooner we can get the game back on track. But again that argument will fall on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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