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Conference League South


bowes

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It seems you can only do that if you play at the standard of Sheffield Eagles Reserves. Any club south of (for the sake of drawing a line) Nottingham that wanted to play a full March-October season with inexperienced players has nowhere to play. The existing summer premier leagues are still mainly RU players, just ramming 16 games in where there used to be 12. I would guess 90% + of the players in those leagues see their Union club as their priority. All at the expense of long term development?

The danger of throwing the summer "RU fitness" leagues to the wolves is that it is where some of the most succesful development clubs started life - are we expecting fully formed clubs to appear out of nowhere in future? I appreciate the limited resources have to be spent wisely but there is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I dont think anyone's throwing the baby out with the bath water, there is an absolute need for May to August provision, but as you rightly identified at the Chargers, the only way you will build your club and loyalty to it is by making it people's primary choice, which it won't be when shoe horned into another sport's off season.

The Midlands Premier looks set to deliver another season of 14 games + play offs. Steady year on year growth.

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I dont think anyone's throwing the baby out with the bath water, there is an absolute need for May to August provision, but as you rightly identified at the Chargers, the only way you will build your club and loyalty to it is by making it people's primary choice, which it won't be when shoe horned into another sport's off season.

The Midlands Premier looks set to deliver another season of 14 games + play offs. Steady year on year growth.

To be fair, there was a 14 game regular season in the RLC Midlands Prem a decade ago. Given the money/human resource that was poured into the Midlands in the recent past, I'm not sure we can hail this as significant growth. Consolidation perhaps; recovery even. But growth? I'm not so sure.

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One pitfall to avoid is thinking an April to September season is a step from a May to August season to a March to October one. It won't work as it overlaps just enough with RU to mean fixtures called off at either end of the season but not enough to provide a full season and get players to commit to RL.

 

As for the midlands Coventry and Leicester have moved forward, Nottingham and Telford have roughly stayed the same, Birmingham have gone backwards and many of the merit league sides have improved.

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To be fair, there was a 14 game regular season in the RLC Midlands Prem a decade ago. Given the money/human resource that was poured into the Midlands in the recent past, I'm not sure we can hail this as significant growth. Consolidation perhaps; recovery even. But growth? I'm not so sure.

More clubs at Tier 4, than a decade ago, more A teams, more clubs and higher fixture completion. Growth.

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More clubs at Tier 4, than a decade ago, more A teams, more clubs and higher fixture completion. Growth.

Open age seems to be doing alright when you look at how badly the game is collapsing in some areas. London being the worst. Though the east seems on the way up. Would be nice if there were suitable competitions for Northampton and Telford to move onto ideally with a full season
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More clubs at Tier 4, than a decade ago, more A teams, more clubs and higher fixture completion. Growth.

Those are all fair points Dave but I think it's harder to put a positive slant on things at junior level. Given the amount of Sport England money spent and 'boots on the ground,' I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have expected more of a legacy.

As you rightly say, there are more open age teams, but it's also fair to speculate how much more stable these clubs would've been had those areas that were heavily funded/staffed had made more of an impact in terms of proper junior development.

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There are specific reasons for the London league being in trouble, most notably that any team to the north or east of London is ferried into the east. Should Brentwood be playing in the east? Or St. Albans?

You could go through every club in the league and there are specific, fixable issues. Some of these issues are self-inflicted, some are outside issues. However, we don't have supportive councils, we don't have a large number of willing host RU clubs and there's no money from the RFL, RL-related charities (like RL Cares) or general sponsors. It's a hard market and there seems to be an institutional desire to build up the other regions at London's expense without there being a pipeline of serious teams to fill the gaps.

Right now the top senior teams inside the M25 are Chargers, Wests Warriors, Hammersmith (though they need to sort a ground for 2015), Beckenham and Newham. This is a terrible state of affairs.

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I'd be amazed if either Hammersmith or Newham could fulfil an entire season's fixtures so only really 3 sides plus 2 merit league ones.

I think it's more than pushing clubs to the east and south east division, the standard was just plain too high for clubs to step up to, Elmbridge ran away with the south east division, won the national final but couldn't manage the step up

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 Its impressive that Coventry can go straight into League 1 at semi pro level and at the same time put out a reserve side in CLS.

Good to see the GAG following suit. Didn't Oxford have problems in 2014 fullfilling fixtures at CSL.  Why no show from Hemel & Skolars?The Bears have been building slowly after a stay in NCL3 and are well set. If they can attract players of Queensland Cup quality like Paul Ivan they could be a surprise packet in 2015.

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I expect some of last season's first team and some of last season's U19 team along with some Midlands U20 players and students will largely populate the A team. Not sure where last season's A team players will end up, I guess if we don't run a third team they'll drift towards the Dragons or Leamington with some making the step up.

Hemel and Skolars have folded their A teams because London Premier has collapsed and I guess they don't think they could manage the travelling in CLS. Skolars are on about running U19s but there's no league for them to play in.

It's a tough ask for Oxford to stay at this level but at least the Warriors will have last year's All Golds Academy to draw on. I think the Raiders have stepped up far too soon but hope they prove me wrong. Torfaen and Valley Cougars should go strong though. The inevitable demise of the west of England division is concerning though unless they can persuade the South Wales division to take clubs with Somerset I guess to go to south west.

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Hemel and Skolars have folded their A teams because London Premier has collapsed .....

 

Chicken and Egg I suppose, from what I heard, Hemel and Skolars did not  fold their A teams because London Premier had collapsed,  the London Prem collapsed  because Skolars A and Hemel were playing lots of their spare 1st team players in their A teams, making it a league that other 'lesser' teams did not want to join.

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Chicken and Egg I suppose, from what I heard, Hemel and Skolars did not  fold their A teams because London Premier had collapsed,  the London Prem collapsed  because Skolars A and Hemel were playing lots of their spare 1st team players in their A teams, making it a league that other 'lesser' teams did not want to join.

Yeah that too. I'd like to see in the future CLS split west and east so Hemel A and Skolars A could reform and Eastern Rhinos could step up to a higher standard. But yes the standard really was out of reach of even the likes of Medway IMO. I don't think the relative strongholds in south and west London having one composite club at that level helped the sustainability either, nor the pro clubs' A teams hoovering up players (though arguably the latter needs to happen if there's no other avenue for higher competition)

 

Out of interest did they fold their A teams after the end of London Premier or before?

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Out of interest did they fold their A teams after the end of London Premier or before?

I heard 'talk' around mid/end July, I was at a Saturday game of Hemels in the London league and next day was at the Sunday game of Skolars v Hemel and heard about it at one of those.  Just 'talk' amongst the 'speccies' though, not official or anything. 

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I heard 'talk' around mid/end July, I was at a Saturday game of Hemels in the London league and next day was at the Sunday game of Skolars v Hemel and heard about it at one of those.  Just 'talk' amongst the 'speccies' though, not official or anything. 

Seems strange at least from Skolars given they ran three ope age teams last year. I'd expect Skolars reserve players to end up looking to form their own club to have somewhere to play. Can't see the same in Hemel but leftover players may end up at yours I guess.

 

I have no problem with them playing fringe professionals in their reserve teams but I think if they want to it should only be allowed in tier 4 competition (i.e. CLS level)

 

With regards to competition though I think someone should step in and tell Eastern Rhinos they're playing Eastern premier though as it's unreasonable for them to even be considered for a league likely to stretch to Southampton when there's a stronger division in their own region. The more tricky question is South West London Chargers as they'd be far too good for a London/South East division. Given they ran three open age sides last year if they're not aiming for a higher division they could do worse than demerge and leave 2 decent sides

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[quote name="bowes" post="3049174" timestamp="1419629850

With regards to competition though I think someone should step in and tell Eastern Rhinos they're playing Eastern premier though as it's unreasonable for them to even be considered for a league likely to stretch to Southampton when there's a stronger division in their own region

If Rhinos played in the East region (I can't call it premier) they would win every game by 50 points. For me Rhinos have the right attitude - they believe other clubs should step up and take on tougher teams rather than playing in leagues they will win.

It is tough for those clubs though if every opposition is miles better. But an expanded league with a mixture of abilities should work.

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If Eastern Rhinos play in London and South East they'll beat all bar one club by much more than 50 points and increase their travel burden and probably not get many home fixtures. If they want a better standard it's CLS or nothing. Apart from games against Chargers they're stepping down in quality by not playing east premier

 

Can't see on what grounds a division of say: Eastern Rhinos, South West London Chargers, Medway Dragons, Southampton Spitfires, Portsmouth Navy Seahawks, Weald Warriors, Sussex Merlins, Surrey Sharks, Wests Warriors, Beckenham Bears (give or take a couple of clubs)

 

would be a higher standard than say: Eastern Rhinos, St Albans Centurions, North Herts Crusaders, Bedford Tigers, St Ives Roosters, Kings Lynn Black Knights, Milton Keynes Wolves

 

Of course they need to look at other structures in the long run and it may be that CLS needs splitting west and east and Eastern Rhinos entering into the latter. But for 2015 I don't see any league bar East Premier that Eastern Rhinos could possibly enter

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I don't buy the idea that teams were running scared from Hemel A and Skolars A.  Didn't look that way when Chargers dismantled a very strong Skolars A side on the same day as their B side did something similar to Skolars B.  Hemel A finished 2-6.  My former club were and are eager to step up to face them.  For me, the real issue with both clubs is that they're run on a shoestring.  I honestly don't know how they manage right now financially.   I'm not sure if he is now but a couple of seasons ago, Skolars' CEO was also the under-12s coach and Hemel seem to have scaled back everything to support the first team.  Given that, why would you put your reserves in a league where they have to travel as much, if not more, than the first team and at considerable cost?  It makes absolutely no sense, the CLS is a dog's breakfast of a league and is nothing to aspire to.

 

As I said, they've weakened the London/SE Region at the expense of the East.  St Albans is in the Greater London Urban Area.  You can go to Charing Cross in the very centre of London without crossing countryside.  However, next year, they'll be playing against Kings Lynn, who are situated on the Wash, rather than playing teams within the urban area of which they are a part.  It's a crazy situation.  My view has been that the way to "save" the London/South East League is to create smaller "pods" where you play everybody home and away, no more than four teams per pod, and fill up the season with one-off games against other league teams.  Problem is, looking at it, I can only make one "sensical" pod, which is Southampton/Portsmouth/Surrey/Sussex.  Nobody on this thread can say with any certainty who is and isn't coming back next season.  I maintain that if Staines had some actual sensible plan for player recruitment, they should be able to form a decent side.  They have two junior sides and a truckload of union clubs in the area, yet they rely on students who aren't around for most of the playing season.

 

It's a rock and a hard place for virtually every league; CLS, London Prem, West of England league.  We don't have enough clubs to create leagues which make sense but because of that, the RFL are forced to to create leagues that make no sense at all.

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I can't answer on their behalf but I'd be amazed if St Albans's division choice is anything to do with what urban area they're a part of.

It is the east region and always has been classed as that. All that's changed is the London premier used to be south premier and officially cover east, south east and London. There was then a straight split between east and London and south east which I guess is what we've got left now the upper division is dead along with the short lived London division 1. Nonetheless St Albans would have switched to the east division come what may. The question is would North Hertfordshire, Medway etc want to step up if they were made eligible? Elmbridge's experience suggests not many teams could male the step up. Not Medway, not Beckenham. Maybe North Hertfordshire

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The East region has meant whatever they've wanted down the years.  London teams have played in the East in absence of a suitable league, as East teams played in the London Merit League for lack of a suitable league in their own region.  However, I KNOW, I've heard it out of the mouths of people within the RFL, that they've deliberately pushed Essex and Hertfordshire teams into the current East region, which only dates back three seasons.  They wanted Hemel A to go to the East Premier too last season but they said no.

 

Not to go all cross-code but teams like Newham would be playing Brentwood or Billericay or Southend.  Again, we don't have the teams.

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I think below east premier they should look to regionalise division 1 and some point and yes Newham would fit nicely in a division with Southend, Brentwood, Billericay and Eastern Rhinos A.

I think the problem is the old south premier and London premier now has always been scratching around to make up the numbers but they've now irreversibly lost them. They went through a couple of seasons of a big league but too many games got called off and now the higher standard has killed the league off. It's pretty much been the same teams for years with a couple of lambs to the slaughter who change annually only Hammersmith lasted a while outside the established ones.

Nonetheless I can't conceive of a way to save the league so guess the 2 remaining sides can each go into their respective region for a season and then they can look at either a London, South and East premier or more realistically a CLS East for 2016. I'd even offer them both late entry to CLS on the off chance they'd want it

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A lot of the comments on that page are concerning actually. The South West division is looking like collapsing as well as the West of England division. Apparently the Devon teams aren't happy about travelling to Cornwall and are all very fragile whereas Cornish Rebels are looking to move on in the future, Also a lot about how Somerset Vikings were considering folding but have decided to give it one more year if they have a division

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