Ched Evans

[l'angelo mysterioso]

This is the bit that is unclear to me, why is this being re-examined after he is released, surely if there was reasonable doubt (or whatever the legal terminology might be) this should have been reviewed shortly after he was convicted?

 

What is also interesting is the focus on how much he might earn once he is released. Some seem to feel it might be more acceptable if he were earning minimum wage but because he might be earning many times the national average wage he is vilified. He clearly has a talent for playing soccer and if a club wants to employ him to do that then I would support this and suggest that this be part of his rehabilitation. Forcing him to stay away from soccer, presumably because of the high salary and high profile, to me seems to be just an attempt to continue his punishment indefinitely.

you can't rehabilitate someone who doesn't think they have done anything wrong.

I agree with you about the guys earnings, but it's really about what he represents: professional sports players-and don't forget the guy is an international have roles and a profile away from what happens on the pitch.

If he was a Union player would you welcome him at your club?

[Wolford6]

This is the bit that is unclear to me, why is this being re-examined after he is released, surely if there was reasonable doubt (or whatever the legal terminology might be) this should have been reviewed shortly after he was convicted?

 

 

 

 

Ched was refused leave to appeal.  If he had been allowed an appeal, and then found not guilty, the government would presumably have had to pay him a fortune in compensation.

 

He is now asking for the case to be reviewed using fresh evidence. The courts are fast-tracking it. The cynic in me wonders if, in a possible case of him being found not guilty because of his new evidence, no compensation would be necessary.

[Martyn Sadler]

One of the problems with the criminal legal system is that guilt or innocence, when pronounced, tend to be seen as definitive and black and white, not reflecting the complexity of the case.

 

As a result we tend either to be censorious or forgiving, when neither response may be entirely appropriate.

 

There's a fairly thoughtful article here by Alison Pearson about this case.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11226209/Ched-Evans-Sorry-but-all-rapes-are-not-the-same.html

[Tiny Tim]

you can't rehabilitate someone who doesn't think they have done anything wrong.

I agree with you about the guys earnings, but it's really about what he represents: professional sports players-and don't forget the guy is an international have roles and a profile away from what happens on the pitch.

If he was a Union player would you welcome him at your club?

 

Would you feel better if he turned around now and went "okay, fair enough I did it"? Would that change how you, and probably others, feel about the situation?

 

I would feel uncomfortable having a convicted rapist playing at my club but I would try not to react in an hysterical and reactionary way. He is and will continue to be a high profile person, this in itself will ensure that his punishment continues. As was discussed elsewhere soccer crowds can be relentless and seem to get away with an awful lot of appalling behaviour, at every game I suspect Ched would be on the receiving end of taunts, abuse and accusations. He would never be allowed to forget his crime.

[Wolford6]

In terms of paying for his crime, Ched has served two and a half years in prison and lost £1million  in cash.

I think that would deter anyone from re-offending.

[Larry the Leit]

Ched was refused leave to appeal.  

 

The overwhelming majority of cases would be refused the right to appeal. This is a red herring.

[longboard]

In terms of paying for his crime, Ched has served two and a half years in prison and lost £1million  in cash.

I think that would deter anyone from re-offending.

 

The taxpayer has paid a lot for this.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

One of the problems with the criminal legal system is that guilt or innocence, when pronounced, tend to be seen as definitive and black and white, not reflecting the complexity of the case.

 

As a result we tend either to be censorious or forgiving, when neither response may be entirely appropriate.

 

There's a fairly thoughtful article here by Alison Pearson about this case.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11226209/Ched-Evans-Sorry-but-all-rapes-are-not-the-same.html

Alison Pearson is the prototype for Private Eye's Polly Filla: associating her with 'thoughtful articles' is pushing it a bit.

Of course 'not all rapes are the same': that is why the punishments vary

 

How complex was this case? It isn't a question of being censorious or not. It's about Evans' status as a professional sports player within the game he plays in the light of his conviction for sexual assault. 

 

Different aspects of that are being discussed here.

 

It is difficult not to feel censorious about what Evans was found guilty of and I think people have been remarkably restrained in that department. Meanwhile Jessica Ennis is on the verge of disassociating herself from the club. She knows what the responsibilities of being a high profile sportsperson are.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Would you feel better if he turned around now and went "okay, fair enough I did it"? Would that change how you, and probably others, feel about the situation?

 

I would feel uncomfortable having a convicted rapist playing at my club but I would try not to react in an hysterical and reactionary way. He is and will continue to be a high profile person, this in itself will ensure that his punishment continues. As was discussed elsewhere soccer crowds can be relentless and seem to get away with an awful lot of appalling behaviour, at every game I suspect Ched would be on the receiving end of taunts, abuse and accusations. He would never be allowed to forget his crime.

I don't have any actual feelings one way or the other. I doubt whether any decent person would forget having raped somebody. I'm not sure that anyone is being reactionary or hysterical in discussing this on here. If you would feel uncomfortable then surely you empathise with those who support Sheffield United who feel the same.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

In terms of paying for his crime, Ched has served two and a half years in prison and lost £1million  in cash.

I think that would deter anyone from re-offending.

what has cash got to do with it?

all offenders who serve jail  time lose their earnings.

Evans is still serving time for an offence he claims never happened.

You seem to lack understanding of what causes people to commit crimes, and re offend

[gingerjon]

Would you feel better if he turned around now and went "okay, fair enough I did it"? Would that change how you, and probably others, feel about the situation?

 

It would make a massive difference.

 

As would some kind of statement condemning the attacks, insults, abuse and threats, in his name and by his supporters, not only against the woman in the case but anyone who dares suggest that things aren't all sweetness and light from Ched.

 

Ultimately I believe in rehabilitation so if he's done his time (etc etc) then he should be able to make a living again from football.  I wouldn't want him on my team.  And nor would I be too unhappy if someone deliberately smashed him into a goalpost and ended his career.  I feel much the same way about a lot of sex offenders.

[Ackroman]

At the moment he's not being paid for anything, he has no contract of employment. All he has is the opportunity to train as he won't be in any fit condition to be considered for a contract until Easter time.

 

Ennis et al need to wind their necks in until there's something to be outraged about.

[gingerjon]

 

 

Ennis et al need to wind their necks in until there's something to be outraged about.

 

How about the bit where Evans' family managed to drive the woman he raped to the point where she had to leave where she lived and assume a new identity?

[Larry the Leit]

How about the bit where Evans' family managed to drive the woman he raped to the point where she had to leave where she lived and assume a new identity?

 

That's horrendous, and worthy of outrage.  However his family are not the ones that it is suggested cannot return to the labour market, so broadly irrelevant to the case being discussed.

 

Robin, any comment?

[longboard]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the rape conviction, I would guess that a lot of people would consider that Evans and his friends behaved appallingly with this young woman.One of the punishments associated with convictions is a loss of reputation, as well as imprisonment, restriction of liberty, fine and loss of income. This loss of reputation has a personal but also a professional impact. This professional impact has implications for future , or potential employers, and their reputations. One of the possible consequences for potential employers in this case, leaving aside questions of morality for the purposes of discussion, is public opprobrium and loss of income, including commercial income. The potential loss of income from sponsors is likely to be a big influence on Sheff U's decision about offering Evans a contract I suppose.

 

J Corrigan wrote a piece in the Torygraph about the influence of sponsors as a result of  Evans' case controversy. He makes the point that some of the sponsors, such as large corporations and loan companies, are hardly bastions of exacting morality but they can still be influenced by bad publicity, or the prospect of bad publicity. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/sheffield-united/11226544/It-is-right-to-protest-to-Sheffield-United-sponsors-over-Ched-Evans-they-are-the-only-ones-likely-to-act.html

 

Of course, it is none too edifying when there is a media storm about these matters and the coverage is often far from calm, or thoughtful.

 

Does it make sense for Evans to be rehabilitated? Yes? Is that simply about getting match fit to play professional soccer again? No. He is on the sex offenders register and he will be adjudged to present some kind of threat. The level of threat is for the people working with him to judge; the people with whom he comes into contact will have to make their own decisions on this. The behaviour of some of the people who support him in naming and attacking the victim's reputation is likely to be counter productive for Evans' rehabilitation in society. He seems to be in need of some good advice if his video statement is anything to go by.

 

Evans has  apologised publicly for being unfaithful to his partner.

[Ackroman]

How about the bit where Evans' family managed to drive the woman he raped to the point where she had to leave where she lived and assume a new identity?

 

What's that got to do with the fact he's doing some football training?

 

It's a bunch of unspeakable idiots acting on their own volition.

[gingerjon]

The potential loss of income from sponsors is likely to be a big influence on Sheff U's decision about offering Evans a contract I suppose.

 

One has already said they will withdraw should Sheffield United sign Evans and one has said they will consider their position.

[gingerjon]

What's that got to do with the fact he's doing some football training?

 

It's a bunch of unspeakable idiots acting on their own volition.

 

His family.  His friends.  His supporters.  His total silence on their actions.

[Robin Evans]

That's horrendous, and worthy of outrage. However his family are not the ones that it is suggested cannot return to the labour market, so broadly irrelevant to the case being discussed.

Robin, any comment?

nowt further to add beyond what you've already commented owd cock.

[Larry the Leit]

nowt further to add beyond what you've already commented owd cock.

 

Whoosh.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

At the moment he's not being paid for anything, he has no contract of employment. All he has is the opportunity to train as he won't be in any fit condition to be considered for a contract until Easter time.

 

Ennis et al need to wind their necks in until there's something to be outraged about.

 

he could have been a little more circumspect about where and with whom he does his training.

There is a stand named after Ennis at Bramald lane. If she doesn't want to have her name associated with the club especially in such a high profile way because of the club's association with Evans then she is entitled to.

[Larry the Leit]

he could have been a little more circumspect about where and with whom he does his training.

There is a stand named after Ennis at Bramald lane. If she doesn't want to have her name associated with the club especially in such a high profile way because of the club's association with Evans then she is entitled to.

She's happy enough to have her name linked with the banking sector.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

She's happy enough to have her name linked with the banking sector.

she is

banking isn't illegal.

We all have bank accounts.

 

 

a case of double standards? Perhaps, but I think she edges it, just.

[Ackroman]

His family.  His friends.  His supporters.  His total silence on their actions.

What would you have him do? 

[Larry the Leit]

she is

banking isn't illegal.

We all have bank accounts.

 

 

a case of double standards? Perhaps, but I think she edges it, just.

 

The man is a convicted rapist, being an ex-offender is not illegal.  Seemingly the parole board have seen him as safe to release, what's the point if his punishment is to continue in perpetuity?  I accept that his victim will have to carry the impact of his crime for life, but that's not the issue being addressed. 

 

Sheffield United have not re-signed him.  One could even argue that they've been brave to allow him to start his re-integration into normal life and society with them, given the inevitable bad publicity that it was bound to attract.  

 

They won't re-sign him, he's toxic for their business as you say Frank.  I don't see any way for them to save face either.

 

Anyway, there's an interesting list here.