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10 dead at French Satirical Mag

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So all the satire shows since Not the Nine o'Clock News up to and including the present day don't count?

Satire today is feeble compared to Not the Nine O'Clock News. 

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So all the satire shows since Not the Nine o'Clock News up to and including the present day don't count?

Come on they are just lazy. Only poking fun at safe targets like Tory mps.

Do you think anyone would *dare* do a sketch like 'Ayatollah Song'?

I read some jackass from time berating the magazine for being 'Islamophobic' and deserving what they got.

Which is no surprise really.

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Satire today is feeble compared to Not the Nine O'Clock News. 

And, back in the day, NTNOCN was slated as infantile and toothless in comparison to earlier shows, like TW3. The former was partly satirical, but was also made up of slapstick and general non-satirical humour too.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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Come on they are just lazy. Only poking fun at safe targets like Tory mps.

Do you think anyone would *dare* do a sketch like 'Ayatollah Song'?

I read some jackass from time berating the magazine for being 'Islamophobic' and deserving what they got.

Which is no surprise really.

Ah. So you mentally tune out all the jokes aimed at Labour and the other parties? When, say, Charlie Brooker or someone on the News Quiz has a go at Milliband or Clegg? There are plenty of them, but it's much easier to pretend it isn't happening and brand everyone in topical comedy as Labour luvvies. People like Garry Bushell and Richard Littlejohn have even parleyed it up into a lucrative career.

 

And older satirists didn't get death threats, which might have (understandably) drawn their teeth a little.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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I only mentioned Tory mps but meant all of them as they are all equally easy to poke fun at. And you're right the older ones didn't face death threats - possibly because the very idea of attacking or killing someone because they were offended seemed so alien then and constant justifications weren't made for people who wanted to kill others over a book or perhaps a teddy bear.

I certainly don't expect anyone like Charlie Brooker to do a straight up pee take of something Islamic.

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I certainly don't expect anyone like Charlie Brooker to do a straight up pee take of something Islamic.

Nobody would dare.

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Nobody would dare.

That's the point, there's like a selection of things that you can laugh about/take the pee out of but don't choose something that isn't ok and you are asking for trouble. It didn't used to be like that. People did complain and protest about stuff that were offensive to them but they were usually dismissed as cranks or fuddy duddies like Mary Whitehouse. There certainly weren't any serious threats to kill until Rushdie. And remember, that wasn't a few extremists but pretty much every Muslim that backed that.

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That's the point, there's like a selection of things that you can laugh about/take the pee out of but don't choose something that isn't ok and you are asking for trouble. It didn't used to be like that. People did complain and protest about stuff that were offensive to them but they were usually dismissed as cranks or fuddy duddies like Mary Whitehouse. There certainly weren't any serious threats to kill until Rushdie. And remember, that wasn't a few extremists but pretty much every Muslim that backed that.

I totally agree, and I remember the days when pee taking was less selective.

 

Rushdie had a Fatwah against him.  That was a different beast.  That was the Ayatollah getting stroppy and the threat was against him and him alone.  His book wasn't a pee take; it was slightly stronger than that.  While I don't agree with Fatwahs, that was different to what we now have.

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I totally agree, and I remember the days when pee taking was less selective.

 

Rushdie had a Fatwah against him.  That was a different beast.  That was the Ayatollah getting stroppy and the threat was against him and him alone.  His book wasn't a pee take; it was slightly stronger than that.  While I don't agree with Fatwahs, that was different to what we now have.

When I found out Rushdie was going out with Padma Lakshmi, I wanted to kill him. But that's not for now...


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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That's the point, there's like a selection of things that you can laugh about/take the pee out of but don't choose something that isn't ok and you are asking for trouble. It didn't used to be like that. People did complain and protest about stuff that were offensive to them but they were usually dismissed as cranks or fuddy duddies like Mary Whitehouse. There certainly weren't any serious threats to kill until Rushdie. And remember, that wasn't a few extremists but pretty much every Muslim that backed that.

There were death threats aplenty, Ross McWhirter and Airey Neave being two that might disagree with you

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There were death threats aplenty, Ross McWhirter and Airey Neave being two that might disagree with you

Nice try but that is a completely different argument. Mcwhirter was, IIRC, shot on his doorstep after offering a reward for info on an IRA murder, or possibly just generally being on the wrong side of the IRA. Either way, it wasn't the same as this, or the Danish cartoons, or the teddy bear, or Theo Van Gogh.....or the next thing.

And yes, people have long been issued with death threats by renegade groups but generally they didn't have people arguing that maybe they had a point and we should not say or do certain things.

And its only a matter of time until this, or possibly worse, happens here.

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That BBC article mentions "unequivocal condemnation" . That is not enough, in my opinion. It's deeds not words that are required from believers in Islam. For a "peace loving" religion, it seems awfully murderous across the world.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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I totally agree, and I remember the days when pee taking was less selective.

 

Rushdie had a Fatwah against him.  That was a different beast.  That was the Ayatollah getting stroppy and the threat was against him and him alone.  His book wasn't a pee take; it was slightly stronger than that.  While I don't agree with Fatwahs, that was different to what we now have.

Just because it was issued to an individual that doesn't make it acceptable. The left used to regard the burning of books as the ultimate sign of oppression and it was often used as a metaphor to highlight right wing policies. But they didn't seem to say that much about it after the Rushdie affair.

I was present at the Rushdie book burning.

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Just because it was issued to an individual that doesn't make it acceptable. The left used to regard the burning of books as the ultimate sign of oppression and it was often used as a metaphor to highlight right wing policies. But they didn't seem to say that much about it after the Rushdie affair.

I was present at the Rushdie book burning.

there were several book burnings

people from across the political spectrum were disgusted by it and said so.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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there were several book burnings

people from across the political spectrum were disgusted by it and said so.

Like who? What action was taken against, say, the people who were saying on TV 'I will kill him'? Nothing. What was the approach to a bunch of religious bigots telling us what you can or cannot write in a book? Acceptance

The initial and major book burning incident was in Bradford City Centre near the law courts, that was the main one that made the news.

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Like who? What action was taken against, say, the people who were saying on TV 'I will kill him'? Nothing. What was the approach to a bunch of religious bigots telling us what you can or cannot write in a book? Acceptance

The initial and major book burning incident was in Bradford City Centre near the law courts, that was the main one that made the news.

you said people with left wing views said nothing. They did, plenty of them.

You obviously missed the famous left wing poet Tony Harrison's film Blasphemer's banquet for instance.

I was just pointing out that there were other bigots burning books as well as the ones in Bradford.

 

Some people have been brutally murdered by some barbaric fanatics who want to deny the right of people to express themselves.

My thoughts are with them

je suis Charlie.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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Sky News has been told that this might be settled tonight.

 

Sky New was wrong.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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One of them has handed himself in, allegedly after being named on social media


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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One of them has handed himself in, allegedly after being named on social media

 

French police also report 7 arrests.

 

Unconfirmed reports of a shooting incident in Paris this morning - two police officers injured.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just because it was issued to an individual that doesn't make it acceptable. The left used to regard the burning of books as the ultimate sign of oppression and it was often used as a metaphor to highlight right wing policies. But they didn't seem to say that much about it after the Rushdie affair.

I was present at the Rushdie book burning.

I didn't say it was acceptable. In fact I said I didn't agree with fatwas!  But the fatwa against Rushdie - who is actually still alive and has survived the person who issued the fatwa - was by a national leader against an individual for a specific act.  That is different from an unknown group of individuals spraying a room with AK45s without warning.

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Come on they are just lazy. Only poking fun at safe targets like Tory mps.

Do you think anyone would *dare* do a sketch like 'Ayatollah Song'?

I read some jackass from time berating the magazine for being 'Islamophobic' and deserving what they got.

Which is no surprise really.

 

Chris Morris and David Baddiel have both done film work in the past few years that satirises Islam (more accurately: satarises Islamic extremism).

 

Much gentler but therefore more mainstream: Citizen Kahn absolutely nails the kind of self-appointed "community spokesman" with outdated and stupid attitudes. Though granted it stinks as a comedy!


It's not a question of coming down to earth, Mr Duxbury. Some of us, Mr Duxbury, belong in the stars.

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-killings-arab-states-jihadi-extremist-sympathisers-isis

Guardian article, interesting coverage of the "image" issue.

If you are an Islamist, Christian, a Klingon whatever, fine: just get on with it, but all that nonsense stops as soon as you step out of that circle into the real world. Just don't try to or expect to impose your views, beliefs, rules etc on the rest of us. Then maybe, just maybe you'll get the respect you crave.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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I agree.  I haven't read about this incident yet as I've been at work (although I know from this thread that either 10 or 12 are dead).  However, we haven't had freedom to offend in this country for at least a decade.  Try using satire against gay people or disabled people or people of other skin colour and immediately the person being satirical will be hounded for being prejudiced in some way.  It isn't guns and knives, but it's effective at silencing people.  I'm not saying it's right to be able to satirise gay people, etc, but nontheless we are not receptive to being offended these days either.

 

However, that is massively different from what has happened recently within Islam. Offence has always been felt when Mohammed is ridiculed but not to the extent that today's Muslims can take matters.

 

Freedom of speech implies freedom to respond in kind. If that response includes expresseing feelings of being offended then as a society we need to suck that up. Though undoubtedly some people would prefer a return to the good old days where you could take the mick out of the gays or the blacks and those groups dare not speak out in return in case they got a good kicking on the street.

 

I'd also suggest that anyone trying to satarise gay people or disabled people (or any other group of people not in positions of significant power and influence) gets hounded not because they've caused offence, but because they're probably acting like dicks.


It's not a question of coming down to earth, Mr Duxbury. Some of us, Mr Duxbury, belong in the stars.

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