ckn Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Honestly, privatisation is good for us, if by "us" you mean Tory MPs who sit on private company boards. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The only way to avoid accusations of a conflict of interest is for any company with government members on its board to automatically be barred from bidding for government contracts. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Various companies with interests in private health care funded Lansley when he was opposition spokesman. That's what the Tory health "reforms" are all about, payback. Which is bad enough. What makes it worse is that neither the Tories or the Lib/Dems had a mandate to do what they have done to the NHS. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 4.4% of the NHS privatised under labour. A further 2.5% under the coalition. These are not great numbers if you want to campaign against the NHS privatisation. Most people will wonder what the fuss is about, that 5.9% of the NHS is out sourced. If you then can't say what is an acceptable % of outsourcing is, then you have another message problem. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 4.4% of the NHS privatised under labour. A further 2.5% under the coalition. These are not great numbers if you want to campaign against the NHS privatisation. Most people will wonder what the fuss is about, that 5.9% of the NHS is out sourced. If you then can't say what is an acceptable % of outsourcing is, then you have another message problem. But the trend is upwards, and as Andy Burnham said last night in Newsnight, Labour have no problem with using the private sector to relieve bottle necks, but the NHS must be the preferred first supplier, currently it isn't. From my own experience last year, I'd say the NHS is in a mess. The A&E delays are just the outward sign of how bad things really are. The coalition were warned over and over again what would happen if they implemented these policies, and it is happening. The chickens are coming home to roost and Dave and co are looking round for someone to blame. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 4.4% of the NHS privatised under labour. A further 2.5% under the coalition. These are not great numbers if you want to campaign against the NHS privatisation. Most people will wonder what the fuss is about, that 5.9% of the NHS is out sourced. If you then can't say what is an acceptable % of outsourcing is, then you have another message problem. But there's more to this than the rights or wrongs of NHS privatisation. This is about a contract being awarded to a company despite it not looking the best value for money for the taxpayer and a tory MP being a possible financial beneficiary from that decision. In other words, corruption. It's bent. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stimpo-and-kat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Without seeing the tender documents or details of the bids, its impossible to judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 ..not on here it isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Without seeing the tender documents or details of the bids, its impossible to judge... But we will never get to see them, almost always shrouded in the catch all ‘commercial confidentiality’. Like I said, the only way to avoid any accusations and to ensure everything is completely above board is to exclude any company where there is a possible similar conflict of interest from competing for government contacts. I honestly don't understand how anyone could defend the situation. And this, to me, is not party political; I'd want to see the same rules applied across the parties. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well, you would say that, wouldn't you. Under this government the NHS is in crisis. W'ree all DOOOMED I TELL YE.......DOOOOOOOMED! Figures from the annual British Social Attitudes survey, to be published later this week by health think-tank The King’s Fund, showed that 65 per cent of people were happy with the way the Health Service worked. That is up five points in a year and beaten only once before, in 2010.Dissatisfaction, meanwhile, fell in 2014 to a record low of 15 per cent. The biggest surge in satisfaction with the NHS is among Labour voters, where there has been an 11 point increase to 69 per cent. Satisfaction among Lib Dem supporters is up by five points to 68 per cent, and is static among Conservatives at 67 per cent.The survey, which has been conducted since 1983, found that satisfaction with outpatient services is at an all-time high of 69 per cent. So people are more satisfied with the NHS under the Conservatives that they are with your mate Miliband In figures that will concern the Labour leader's team, Miliband's net satisfaction rating slipped from -25 to -39; the figure is the difference between the 22% who said he was doing a good job and the 61% who said the opposite. The drop from May's rating is thought to be largely due to previous don't knows firming up with a negative opinion of his performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 <snip> Completely irrelevant to my argument and the OP. That was about corruption in government and above party politics, not another one of your party political broadcasts. Unless you are happy to have a corrupt government? "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The only way to avoid accusations of a conflict of interest is for any company with government members on its board to automatically be barred from bidding for government contracts. Personally I'd go further and say no MP should be on the payroll of companies bidding for government contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nor any on public sector management boards, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Completely irrelevant to my argument and the OP. That was about corruption in government and above party politics, not another one of your party political broadcasts. Unless you are happy to have a corrupt government? You? Above party politics? ..and who are you accusing of corruption? Do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My point is about the message Labour are trying to send. The key point is 'the Tories will privatise the NHS, it's only safe in our hands' but if you fluster when someone says 'you privatised X% of the NHS' or that 'the tories have privatised less than you did'. then your clear message is in trouble. It's then further mudded by ex labour health ministers weighing in (though he is also taking the private healthcare coin). With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My point is about the message Labour are trying to send. The key point is 'the Tories will privatise the NHS, it's only safe in our hands' but if you fluster when someone says 'you privatised X% of the NHS' or that 'the tories have privatised less than you did'. then your clear message is in trouble. It's then further mudded by ex labour health ministers weighing in (though he is also taking the private healthcare coin). Which ex Labour health minister? I've checked Andy Burnham Alan Johnson and Frank Dobson's register of members interests and none of those have any connections with private health companies. (can't think of any others right now off the top of my head) "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Which ex Labour health minister? I've checked Andy Burnham Alan Johnson and Frank Dobson's register of members interests and none of those have any connections with private health companies. (can't think of any others right now off the top of my head) Milburn is the man to look into I think. It's not a question of coming down to earth, Mr Duxbury. Some of us, Mr Duxbury, belong in the stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.diaverum.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Milburn is the man to look into I think. http://www.diaverum.com/ Fair enough, but not quite the same as he's no longer a serving MP so has no direct influence. However I'm still not comfortable about it, but you have to draw the line somewhere and I don't think ex MPs can be excluded. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 He was a serving MP and waited the regulation 6 months (I think its 6) before joining various posts. From wiki - Following his resignation as Secretary of State for Health (to spend more time with his family), Milburn took a post for £30,000 a year as an advisor to Bridgepoint Capital, a venture capital firm heavily involved in financing private health-care firms moving into the NHS, including Alliance Medical, Match Group, Medica and the Robinia Care Group. and In 2013 Milburn joined PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) as Chair of PwC's UK Health Industry Oversight Board, whose objective is to drive change in the health sector, and assist PwC in growing its presence in the health market With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/01/alan-milburn-health-consultancy-firm-now-worth-2-million/ With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Back to the OP, is it ever ok for companies with connections to serving or former government ministers to compete for government contracts or for serving or former ministers to serve on the boards of companies applying for government contracts? "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 agree entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Back to the OP, is it ever ok for companies with connections to serving or former government ministers to compete for government contracts or for serving or former ministers to serve on the boards of companies applying for government contracts?No. Insider trading laws forbid many employees from having any ties to their clients in terms of shares, etc. yet MPs can be both part of select committees advising Parliament and also on the board of directly related companies. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 So MPs should not be able to use their inside knowledge and political contacts to help companies win govt contracts. Nor should they be able to do the same to help public sector organisations in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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