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Marquee allowance


Rob

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I understand a big name might draw crowds etc but its not the crowds at Leeds Wigan wire saints ect we need building upon its the wakeys Widnes Cas etc crowds that need to grow but when Leeds Wigan etc are putting 50 past them their crowds will definately dwindle not increase so like I say its an hard call to make as is it for the good of the game really? The same goes for the championship it used to be very competetive now its not with the changes.

 

It's for the good of selected Chairmen who have the ambition to make sure they stay in the eight but the reality is the big stars are not coming. Read my RU & NRL salary caps posts. IMHO They'll use marquee to increase their salary caps.

The move to a top eight may allow the top seven to vote this through 7-5.

 

We already have crowds badly dwindling at Bradford and Wakefield, we never got "crowds" of any note at Widnes and Fartown and if SL clubs like these end bottom four and farmed out to the championship what crowds will they pull then?

 

Huddersfield.v.Sheffield??

 

As you observe in the championship it's now a two horse race and already fans of the championship clubs are losing interest - your "we have no chance" comments. Everyone totally  forgets because they don't really care, that five Championship clubs were axed to make way for this structure.

 

I'll be watching what that does for them and their crowds. No other beggar will.

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It's for the good of selected Chairmen who have the ambition to make sure they stay in the eight but the reality is the big stars are not coming. Read my RU & NRL salary caps posts. IMHO They'll use marquee to increase their salary caps.

The move to a top eight may allow the top seven to vote this through 7-5.

We already have crowds badly dwindling at Bradford and Wakefield, we never got "crowds" of any note at Widnes and Fartown and if SL clubs like these end bottom four and farmed out to the championship what crowds will they pull then?

Huddersfield.v.Sheffield??

As you observe in the championship it's now a two horse race and already fans of the championship clubs are losing interest - your "we have no chance" comments. Everyone totally forgets because they don't really care, that five Championship clubs were axed to make way for this structure.

I'll be watching what that does for them and their crowds. No other beggar will.

I think your right parky. I've lost interest in the champ if I'm being honest. The champ used to be very competetive now its just a two horse race like you say. It is now a boring comp which before the new system came in it wasn't.
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Say Watkins is on 200k a year now and wants 500k, Hardaker is on 200k and wants 400k.

Leeds offer Watkins a marquee contract of £500k, meaning that his 200k comes off the cap and they now have 400k to offer hardaker and keep them both.

However in principle you are right because then what do Leeds do with Hall? Or if Singleton carries on his development? Or Ward does? or Lilley reaches his potential?

So we could scrap the cap for youth developed players, but that would just entrench the status quo. Why is Kallum Watkins going to sign for Salford as a 16 year old when he could sign for Leeds or Wigan, get the wages AND be in for titles straight away?

We could scrap the cap entirely, again, as you say a lopsided competition may ensue. A Wigan 2. Now I don't think we will ever stop having a lopsided comp They game lends itself to a team dominating some games and seeing big scores. We would like less but I don't think the SC is achieving that very well.

So what is the answer,

as I say, squad limits.

25 players over 25k this means one team cant horde all the talent. They only have 25 full time pros and then you are dipping into youth players. Its a squad game these days and pretty much every side will use more than 25 players a season, so you still need good depth from your youngsters.

No more than 5 overseas players. Pretty self explanatory. Salford cant go out and sign the NSW side as people seem to be worried about if they can only get 5 overseas players.

no more than 10 players in your squad who have played SL for another side in the last 3 years (U21's are exempt) means you can't go out and buy all the SL talent. But you can get some.

no fewer than 7 players in the matchday 17 that either made their SL debut for that side or are U21 exempt. Increases the emphasis on players developed by the club.

But earlier you were saying that Salford are too far behind the big clubs like leeds and wigan in terms of junior development and scouting etc so they should be allowed to spend outside the cap to compete but with the system you've just put forward there would be more emphasis than there is now on junior development so Salford with koukash' money would still be leagues behind other clubs

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But earlier you were saying that Salford are too far behind the big clubs like leeds and wigan in terms of junior development and scouting etc so they should be allowed to spend outside the cap to compete but with the system you've just put forward there would be more emphasis than there is now on junior development so Salford with koukash' money would still be leagues behind other clubs

There is a balance isn't there. I think it should certainly be easier to compete for trophies with good junior development, I don't think it should be impossible to do so without already having those players

 

I think Koukash could build a squad, using those limits that put him in contention. I also think those limits would stop any side buying all the talent.

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I think your right parky. I've lost interest in the champ if I'm being honest. The champ used to be very competetive now its just a two horse race like you say. It is now a boring comp which before the new system came in it wasn't.

It was competitive , but people still weren't interested in paying to watch it , as I have said from the start ( and the very 1 st thing that occurred to me when this structure was considered was that by having such a big split in funding within the Championship all you do is move the ' gap ' ) for this system to be a success requires enough funding to filter down the Championship to allow all of it to become full time

Doubt it will happen of course , so most likely in 3 years we'll see something else in place

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It was competitive , but people still weren't interested in paying to watch it , as I have said from the start ( and the very 1 st thing that occurred to me when this structure was considered was that by having such a big split in funding within the Championship all you do is move the ' gap ' ) for this system to be a success requires enough funding to filter down the Championship to allow all of it to become full time

Doubt it will happen of course , so most likely in 3 years we'll see something else in place

Hopefully something else will be in place in 3 years time because if not I fear they won't be the hard core champ fans still around by then. People are not going to continually pay £18 plus etc to watch their teams getting hammered every week by leigh and bulls or whoever does come down. The fans will just stay away and save their money. Fev got a crowd of 6k plus against bulls but once those fans that turned up realised we weren't going to do anything this season they stayed away for the leigh game and I doubt they will come back anytime soon if I'm being honest. You may say well bulls will of taken alot yes maybe they did but I bet Fev had 3k fans that day at least.

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I think your right parky. I've lost interest in the champ if I'm being honest. The champ used to be very competetive now its just a two horse race like you say. It is now a boring comp which before the new system came in it wasn't.

Is it any more or less competitive than previous years, there has always been a couple of clubs that are better than the others.

 

Leigh certainly stormed it last year.

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Is it any more or less competitive than previous years, there has always been a couple of clubs that are better than the others.

Leigh certainly stormed it last year.

Yes it as always been competetive every season anyone could of beaten anyone on their day. About leigh last season yes they did storm the league but most games leigh played were not cricket scores like they are now. Ok teams probably didnt have much chance of beating them last season either but the games were definately more competetive last season than this.

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Yes it as always been competetive every season anyone could of beaten anyone on their day. About leigh last season yes they did storm the league but most games leigh played were not cricket scores like they are now. Ok teams probably didnt have much chance of beating them last season either but the games were definately more competetive last season than this.

Sorry mate, I'm not sure I buy this.

 

Leigh had a plus 600 points diff last year, more than the last few years' LL's have had.

 

They are also top this year, ahead of both of the relegated teams. 

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Yes it as always been competetive every season anyone could of beaten anyone on their day. About leigh last season yes they did storm the league but most games leigh played were not cricket scores like they are now. Ok teams probably didnt have much chance of beating them last season either but the games were definately more competetive last season than this.

As this thread is no longer marquee option but structure debate , I agree with what you are saying , but again , what is the solution ?

When licensing was introduced Mr Wood declared they wanted the Championship to become a " Vibrant , worth winning in its own right competition " , but neglected to actually do anything to achieve it , yes games we're competitive with Fev,Fax,Leigh,Sheffield all having success and all capable of beating each other , add to that Batley,Donny and the Rams occaisionally causing an upset on any given day , with visits to Cumbria always a potential bananna skin

So why didn't crowds turn up in numbers to watch it ?

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Sorry mate, I'm not sure I buy this.

Leigh had a plus 600 points diff last year, more than the last few years' LL's have had.

They are also top this year, ahead of both of the relegated teams.

They are FT now though dave it makes a massive difference. Yes leigh were good last season but they are far better this season. All I'm saying is a PT leigh could be beatable a FT leigh against PT teams isn't realistic to think they can be beaten.

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Sorry mate, I'm not sure I buy this.

 

Leigh had a plus 600 points diff last year, more than the last few years' LL's have had.

 

They are also top this year, ahead of both of the relegated teams.

There were some blow outs but also some close games as well , don't forget we had 14 teams in the Championship , and also Up to last year Leigh hadn't won a play off game since 2004

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As this thread is no longer marquee option but structure debate , I agree with what you are saying , but again , what is the solution ?

When licensing was introduced Mr Wood declared they wanted the Championship to become a " Vibrant , worth winning in its own right competition " , but neglected to actually do anything to achieve it , yes games we're competitive with Fev,Fax,Leigh,Sheffield all having success and all capable of beating each other , add to that Batley,Donny and the Rams occaisionally causing an upset on any given day , with visits to Cumbria always a potential bananna skin

So why didn't crowds turn up in numbers to watch it ?

Yes I agree about crowds but crowds are not turning up now only at bulls and leigh. But bulls crowds are poor compared to what they used to get.

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They are FT now though dave it makes a massive difference. Yes leigh were good last season but they are far better this season. All I'm saying is a PT leigh could be beatable a FT leigh against PT teams isn't realistic to think they can be beaten.

So you are saying that taking a reasonable squad to full time does seriously improve them ? , personally I only think we will see the real benefits in the next few months as the little niggling injuries and fatigue start to tell on the part time teams , I do expect some very big blow out scores

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So your solution is ?

I personally think no matter what you do with the champ it will increase the crowds enough to warrant it. The only champ fans left that support a champ club are either the die hards or very loyal like me who couldn't bring myself to support or watch another team. Most have deserted their hometown champ clubs to watch a SL team and SL rugby. You will be amazed how many Fev fans that have deserted Fev and watch Cas or wakey now. So I'm sure a lot have done the same at fax leigh dews batley etc.

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So you are saying that taking a reasonable squad to full time does seriously improve them ? , personally I only think we will see the real benefits in the next few months as the little niggling injuries and fatigue start to tell on the part time teams , I do expect some very big blow out scores

Yes you are a far better team this season than last season unless the champ clubs have gone backwards/ got worse.

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 I have said from the start ( and the very 1 st thing that occurred to me when this structure was considered was that by having such a big split in funding within the Championship all you do is move the ' gap ' ) for this system to be a success requires enough funding to filter down the Championship to allow all of it to become full time

Doubt it will happen of course , so most likely in 3 years we'll see something else in place

 

OK you've made your excuses but I'll still have to say........

 

"Knock , knock , " Excuse me is this the Marquee Allowance thread ? ""

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I personally think no matter what you do with the champ it will increase the crowds enough to warrant it. The only champ fans left that support a champ club are either the die hards or very loyal like me who couldn't bring myself to support or watch another team. Most have deserted their hometown champ clubs to watch a SL team and SL rugby. You will be amazed how many Fev fans that have deserted Fev and watch Cas or wakey now. So I'm sure a lot have done the same at fax leigh dews batley etc.

 

You are a wonder Gaz, that is a very interesting observation indeed.

 

The marquee thing can die off now as in reality nobody can seriously explain how we can outbid bigger sports, nor how at the levels of money we are talking about there is any return. 

 

But if you look at the figures a greater proportion of fans simply by number have steadily gravitated to Superleague. 1996 about 3 out of 4 watched SL last year it was maybe about 7 out of 8

 

That could be old fans leaving the championship and new fans choosing Superlegue, it could be both most likely. The famous Bulls season Ticket bus in Batley I'd guess was more designed for attaracting new fans that turning Batley fans into Bulls but you have see this phenomenon and again it's interesting.

 

This is probably why clubs will never go through the travails of merger. It's easier for Fev, Wakey and Cas to just battle to be the top club by far and they will come. 

 

Which makes me wonder about this new system. If nobody goes up the only way is down for the championship clubs. As I say they have thrown five of them into the league of death and condemned nine more to have to beat professional clubs.

 

It's almost as if RFL/SLE are trying to destroy the Championship.

 

Kryten my mate - should I start a thread on this??

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