Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
John Drake

Labour leadership contest

Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?

    • Andy Burnham
      13
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      14
    • Liz Kendall
      7
    • I would never vote Labour
      8
  2. 2. Did you vote Labour in the 2015 General Election?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      29
  3. 3. Do you have a vote in the Labour leadership election?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      44
  4. 4. Who would you vote for in the Labour leadership election?

    • Andy Burnham
      15
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      18
    • Liz Kendall
      9


Recommended Posts

They didn't win the one in 1945. The most left wing manifesto in Labour's history. Landslide victory. Corbyn will do the same.

 

The 1945 election was a long time ago. 70 years this week, to be precise.

 

 

But you cannot live in the past. The country as it was then is unrecognisable from the country it is now. And for all Attlee's landslide was a triumph of its day, and his government did some wonderful and enduring things we should all be thankful for, it's sobering to think that landslide evaporated and the Tories were back in power 6 short years later, and Labour did not win again until 1964 under Harold Wilson, and Wilson himself was out again by 1970, despite a landslide of his own in '66.

 

If you're using landslide election victories as a barometer of anything, you can't ignore Tony Blair's New Labour landslides of 1997 and 2001. 1997 was a bigger victory than even Attlee's in 1945, and that period of government lasted far longer too.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While you rightly point out we cannot live in the past, we can and should IMO take inspiration for the future from the Attlee government and the way the victory was achieved. The 1945 Labour party swept to power on a message of optimism and a moving forward away from the mistakes of the past. For me, this is what the current Labour party needs to offer, not more of the same. However, the message also needs to be credible and believable; not an easy task for Labour without a willing and compliant press to drive their message home. A perennial problem for them.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While you rightly point out we cannot live in the past, we can and should IMO take inspiration for the future from the Attlee government and the way the victory was achieved. The 1945 Labour party swept to power on a message of optimism and a moving forward away from the mistakes of the past. For me, this is what the current Labour party needs to offer, not more of the same. However, the message also needs to be credible and believable; not an easy task for Labour without a willing and compliant press to drive their message home. A perennial problem for them.

Except Attlee was doing this in the aftermath of one of the darkest times the country had endured in modern times. Not hard to get across a message of optimism after this. Barring another global financial crisis the next Labour leader will in all likelihood have to do it against a stable and improving economy with relatively low unemployment. Selling optimism in good times wont get them much at all.

They also now have to win a battle on several fronts to gain seats, not just against the Tories, but also the SNP in Scotland and to also try and prevent any sort of rise from nationists in Wales if they see the Scots getting their way.

 

Dont underestimate how difficult Labour's task will be next time round. To be honest I haven't seen anything from any of the 4 leadership contenders that shows me they have the drive, ambition and ideas to be genuine contenders in forming a government in 5 years time, and to be honest I actually think they will change leader again before 2020 if they dont make any read headway in the next 2-3 years.


Lets Get Brexit Done !!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clement Attlee was a proud patriot who oversaw the nuclear weapon programme and the creation of Israel. He spent less as a percentage of GDP on welfare than the Conservatives will after cuts.

He was a great man but Jeremy Corbyn is nothing like him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blair has made his move. He'll be angling after a place in the Lords and run for party leader from there.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blair has made his move. He'll be angling after a place in the Lords and run for party leader from there.

Hasn't Blair already got his seat in the Lords - I thought it was automatic for all ex-Prime ministers ?


Lets Get Brexit Done !!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hasn't Blair already got his seat in the Lords - I thought it was automatic for all ex-Prime ministers ?

 

They are offered, but can be turned down. Thatcher was the last PM to take a seat in the Lords I believe.

 

(There are theories as to why Blair has not taken a seat there.)


It's not a question of coming down to earth, Mr Duxbury. Some of us, Mr Duxbury, belong in the stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1945 election was a long time ago. 70 years this week, to be precise.

 

 

But you cannot live in the past. The country as it was then is unrecognisable from the country it is now. And for all Attlee's landslide was a triumph of its day, and his government did some wonderful and enduring things we should all be thankful for, it's sobering to think that landslide evaporated and the Tories were back in power 6 short years later, and Labour did not win again until 1964 under Harold Wilson, and Wilson himself was out again by 1970, despite a landslide of his own in '66.

 

If you're using landslide election victories as a barometer of anything, you can't ignore Tony Blair's New Labour landslides of 1997 and 2001. 1997 was a bigger victory than even Attlee's in 1945, and that period of government lasted far longer too.

It's true that the landslide evaporated. What's not true is the desire for a continuation of Labour rule evaporated. In 1951 Labour polled 48.8% of the votes cast, an increase of .8% over 1945, but because of the re-drawing of constituency boundaries lost the election to the Tories, who only polled 48%.  Churchill is always hailed as the great leader, but in terms of votes cast he never won an election as PM.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are offered, but can be turned down. Thatcher was the last PM to take a seat in the Lords I believe.

 

(There are theories as to why Blair has not taken a seat there.)

I'd say whenever he wants a seat in the Lords he'll get one.  But Churchill was in the Commons almost up to his death.  Major hasn't gone to the Lords.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The art of delusion in full flow.

 

It Is Time to Dispel the Myth That Labour's '83 Manifesto Was Too Left Wing

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/john-wight/left-wing-labour_b_7863132.html

 

I studied Politics and Economics at the Univeristy of Leeds from 1989-92.

 

My mentor was the wonderful Professor David Coates and, looking back, he espoused the theory at the time that left-right politics was dead and there were too many non-partisan factors like the environment, European Union etc that did not fit into "tradtional" political categories. He was right, but the parties didn't adapt. 

David also argued that the problem in the 70s-80s, including the miners strike, was not that the unions were too powerful, but in fact they were not powerful enough. They should have been more united and organised, he said, but they were disjointed and disparate which allowed Thatcher et al to exploit the disunity.

Interesting theory from 25 years ago and one I still think is right.  Any lessons there for the Labour Party in 2015?  Would Corbyn be so wrong? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

 

  Would Corbyn be so wrong? 

Depends if your into Marxism

Because Comrade Corbyn is really into it:-

 

Pressed on whether he was a Marxist, he replied: “I haven’t thought about that for a long time.” He described Karl Marx as “a fascinating figure who observed a great deal and from whom we can learn a great deal”.

 

“Marx obviously analysed what was happening in a quite brilliant way. The philosophy around Marx is absolutely fascinating.

 

Corbyn admits: Karl Marx is my communist hero

Sorry cant do links very well but i think this sums up Jeremy well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends if your into Marxism

Because Comrade Corbyn is really into it:-

Pressed on whether he was a Marxist, he replied: “I haven’t thought about that for a long time.” He described Karl Marx as “a fascinating figure who observed a great deal and from whom we can learn a great deal”.

“Marx obviously analysed what was happening in a quite brilliant way. The philosophy around Marx is absolutely fascinating.

Corbyn admits: Karl Marx is my communist hero

Sorry cant do links very well but i think this sums up Jeremy well

Just because he's read Marx it doesn't make him a Marxist. I actually watched the interview on Marr at the weekend and when pushed he denied being a Marxist.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because he's read Marx it doesn't make him a Marxist

 

Are recruiting officers allowed to read the Melbourne Age ?


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends if your into Marxism

Because Comrade Corbyn is really into it:-

Pressed on whether he was a Marxist, he replied: “I haven’t thought about that for a long time.” He described Karl Marx as “a fascinating figure who observed a great deal and from whom we can learn a great deal”.

“Marx obviously analysed what was happening in a quite brilliant way. The philosophy around Marx is absolutely fascinating.

Corbyn admits: Karl Marx is my communist hero

Sorry cant do links very well but i think this sums up Jeremy well

Maybe you could provide a source for the quote that "Karl Marx is my communist hero" attributed to Jezza?

As a Marxist myself, though not a communist, I can assure you that Corbyn is very much not a Marxist, politically or philosophically. However, like most sensible people, including many on the right, he borrows much from Marxism as a framework for understanding society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you could provide a source for the quote that "Karl Marx is my communist hero" attributed to Jezza?

As a Marxist myself, though not a communist, I can assure you that Corbyn is very much not a Marxist, politically or philosophically. However, like most sensible people, including many on the right, he borrows much from Marxism as a framework for understanding society.

 

Indeed. In the interview on Sunday it was obvious (to me at least :rolleyes:) that he was speaking about Marx from a philosophical not practical point of view. Like you said there will be more than one on the opposite benches of the commons who will have also read Marx.

 

This is is just another one of those non stories latched onto by the press.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's true that the landslide evaporated. What's not true is the desire for a continuation of Labour rule evaporated. In 1951 Labour polled 48.8% of the votes cast, an increase of .8% over 1945, but because of the re-drawing of constituency boundaries lost the election to the Tories, who only polled 48%.  Churchill is always hailed as the great leader, but in terms of votes cast he never won an election as PM.

 

Unfortunately, under our electoral system, the actual number of votes cast doesn't determine the outcome of an election. The history books will forever show that in 1951, Attlee lost and Churchill won.

 

Labour - until such time as it wins an election and takes the opportunity to change the electoral system to a fairer one - will have to win under the system we have.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Went to hear Andy Burnham speak in Leeds last night. Very impressive, IMO. He's got my vote.

 

Afterwards, he took the time to chat to everyone who wanted a word with him (and that was a lot of people, including me). In person, he communicates like a human being, a quality which cannot be underestimated in a politician.

 

Going for the most pressing issue of the moment, I asked him about the promotion chances of Leigh Centurions and Bradford Bulls! ;)

 

jd_ab.jpg


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going for the most pressing issue of the moment, I asked him about the promotion chances of Leigh Centurions and Bradford Bulls! ;)

 

 

 

Did he consult a crib sheet to see what the Party policy on rugby league was this week?


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who seriously wants to lead a credible Labour party again should be made to read this and learn the lessons within it. Written by Labour candidates who lost key marginal seats in the general election it is a fairly honest appraisal of the challenges facing them....

 

http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Never-Again-Lessons-from-Labours-key-seats.pdf


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did he consult a crib sheet to see what the Party policy on rugby league was this week?

 

No, though he did give a politician's answer of saying both teams had 'an excellent chance' of promotion. ;)

 

He asked me if I'd been to Leigh Sports Village and what I thought of it, and also talked about Leigh's 'aggressive' reputation this season so he didn't come across to me as someone who was feigning interest.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who seriously wants to lead a credible Labour party again should be made to read this and learn the lessons within it. Written by Labour candidates who lost key marginal seats in the general election it is a fairly honest appraisal of the challenges facing them....

 

http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Never-Again-Lessons-from-Labours-key-seats.pdf

 

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/fabian.html

 

 

The Fabian Society took its name, suggested by one of its founding members, Frank Podmore, from the Roman General, Quintus Fabius Cunctator, who avoided a frontal attack on Hannibal’s army in the third century B.C., but used delaying tactics. Likewise, the Fabian Society preferred not to support a revolutionary transformation, but was committed to promoting evolutionary socialism in Britain.

 

 

And 1500 years later, the Labour Party still just talks about issues never makes any effort to resolve them.

 

None of the four candidates ever tabled an innovative policy that got adopted during the Party's 13 years in Government.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because he's read Marx it doesn't make him a Marxist. I actually watched the interview on Marr at the weekend and when pushed he denied being a Marxist.

So did i watch it

Just checked again he never denied it at all

Come on you should do better than that

He's mates with Red Ken,Arthur Scargill,Derek Hatton and Gerry Adams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So did i watch it

Just checked again he never denied it at all

Come on you should do better than that

He's mates with Red Ken,Arthur Scargill,Derek Hatton and Gerry Adams

You've not fooled me, you are Joseph McCarthy and i claim my $5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...