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John Drake

Labour leadership contest

Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?

    • Andy Burnham
      13
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      14
    • Liz Kendall
      7
    • I would never vote Labour
      8
  2. 2. Did you vote Labour in the 2015 General Election?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      29
  3. 3. Do you have a vote in the Labour leadership election?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      44
  4. 4. Who would you vote for in the Labour leadership election?

    • Andy Burnham
      15
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      18
    • Liz Kendall
      9


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Did anyone have a say in Gordon Brown becoming PM? The country had to wait for the next general election before it had it's say on him.

Did anyone have a say in Churchill, Eden, Macmilan, Home, or Major becoming PM?


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Disgraceful

I don't like Putin and all he stands for but ...........

Putin's not the PM of this country.  What Thatcher did to the manufacturing industry of this country, and they way she built up financial services at their expense are responsible for the mess we're in today, not just the deficit, but the enormous trade gap.  Plus of course there was the virtual deliberate destruction of the trades union movement, (which Cameron is continuing)  The selling off at knock down prices of swathes of council houses, without replacing them, leaving us with the current housing shortage. Then of course there was North Sea Oil.  The revenues from Norwegian oil went into a national wealth fund.  The revenues of British oil seem to have disappeared.    No wonder the people of Goldthorpe rejoiced when she died.  She destroyed their industry and with it any hopes of a well paid job.  Thatcher was a disaster for our country.  Of course the tame Tory press would never say so.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Did anyone have a say in Gordon Brown becoming PM? The country had to wait for the next general election before it had it's say on him.

 

 

Did anyone have a say in Churchill, Eden, Macmilan, Home, or Major becoming PM?

 

Indeed. And of course again in the not to distant future as Cameron is likely to step down and hand over to his successor in a couple of years.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34253084

Could Labour end up campaigning to get out of the EU ? Shoulder to shoulder with UKIP , there's a thought. If the PM sits with the in camp and Labour in the out camp the wheel will have turned full circle.


Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

[

i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34253084

Could Labour end up campaigning to get out of the EU ? Shoulder to shoulder with UKIP , there's a thought. If the PM sits with the in camp and Labour in the out camp the wheel will have turned full circle.

 

 

I presume both Labour and the Tories will have free votes and I would expect them to loosen the ties of ministerial collective responsibility on the referendum as well.  With Corbyn elected, and if he retains his, at best, "distrust" of th EU then I'm of the opinion that the vote will go towards leaving the EU.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Disgraceful

I don't like Putin and all he stands for but ...........

 

 

Just what are you on about? You've managed to refer to Putin yet again in a thread about the leadership of the Labour party. He has exactly what to so with it?


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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I presume both Labour and the Tories will have free votes and I would expect them to loosen the ties of ministerial collective responsibility on the referendum as well.  With Corbyn elected, and if he retains his, at best, "distrust" of th EU then I'm of the opinion that the vote will go towards leaving the EU.

This whole 'renegotiation' puts a lot of people in a bind. There are many things that the EU really quite desperately needs to reform (CAP, TTIP being just two) but none of those are being discussed by Cameron and his henchmen. Instead, they're going for reduced workers rights and opting out of the social chapter (again!). If he were to come back with those things, which are polar opposite to what workers actually need, how can Labour campaign for a Yes vote? The alternative is voting No and letting the Tories and their obsessive free market friends rip up every one of the (few remaining) rights and protections that workers in this country still have.

 

The only way I can see is, "vote yes for this as a least worse option and when we get back in government we'll reverse those damaging bits". But that's a nuanced argument, and we're constantly seeing how nuanced arguments don't go down well generally and even more so in a referendum.

 

Labour's best option is to get onto every single friend / ally / sister party within the EU and campaign hard for them to refuse all of Cameron's demands. Simply waiting for the details to be decided and then fighting the referendum campaign is not a viable option.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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Did anyone have a say in Churchill, Eden, Macmilan, Home, or Major becoming PM?

 

That seemed to have somehow escaped the poster who was defending McDonnell by saying Boris Johnson could be PM without the people having a say.

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Boris (Conservative) is merely 'foolish' while McDonnell (Labour) is an enemy of the state. Hmmm...

 

The point remains that the country could well end up with a fool as a PM if the Tory Party (not the country) chooses him as its next leader when Cameron steps down. Whereas it is highly unlikely McDonnell will ever be more than a Shadow minister with no actual power.

 

Who is the real threat here?

 

 

No, McDonnell has made it clear that he think that a terrorist organisation is justified in using bombs and bullets to achieve its aims against his own country.

 

That is unacceptable, in my view, and makes him unfit for office, either in government or in the shadow cabinet.

 

Johnson's foibles are irrelevant by comparison.

 

And I'm not sure how someone who is a fool can successfully win an election against Ken Livingstone to become the Mayor of London.

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Just listened to Jezza's speech to the TUC conference. A rousing speech admired by the Jezza-belles in the audience because he told them what they wanted to hear: that he will lead them into the promised land of more jobs, more pay, lower rents, increased public spending, all mpaid for by borrowing and by punitive increases in taxation. He will fail in his promise to win in 2020 as his philosophy, policies and matchtsick economics are based on the Big Lie that only Labour cares about poverty, that only Labour cares about the workers and that omly Labour cares about human rights. Its a nonsense.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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Just listened to Jezza's speech to the TUC conference. A rousing speech admired by the Jezza-belles in the audience because he told them what they wanted to hear: that he will lead them into the promised land of more jobs, more pay, lower rents, increased public spending, all mpaid for by borrowing and by punitive increases in taxation. He will fail in his promise to win in 2020 as his philosophy, policies and matchtsick economics are based on the Big Lie that only Labour cares about poverty, that only Labour cares about the workers and that omly Labour cares about human rights. Its a nonsense.

 

If the Tories care about eradicating poverty, improving the lives of workers and improving human rights for us all they've got a ###### funny way of showing it. 

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Just listened to Jezza's speech to the TUC conference. A rousing speech admired by the Jezza-belles in the audience because he told them what they wanted to hear: that he will lead them into the promised land of more jobs, more pay, lower rents, increased public spending, all mpaid for by borrowing and by punitive increases in taxation. He will fail in his promise to win in 2020 as his philosophy, policies and matchtsick economics are based on the Big Lie that only Labour cares about poverty, that only Labour cares about the workers and that omly Labour cares about human rights. Its a nonsense.

 

 

Ok go on then how are the tories eradicating poverty?


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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No, McDonnell has made it clear that he think that a terrorist organisation is justified in using bombs and bullets to achieve its aims against his own country.

 

That is unacceptable, in my view, and makes him unfit for office, either in government or in the shadow cabinet.

 

Johnson's foibles are irrelevant by comparison.

 

And I'm not sure how someone who is a fool can successfully win an election against Ken Livingstone to become the Mayor of London.

Is BoJo a fool? No, his buffoonery hides a dangerous ideological mania. His time in office has been a disaster for London and Londoners.

 

But him defeating Livingstone doesn't prove anything. By the end of his second term as Mayor Ken was hated in large parts of London, particularly in the west. He was spending lots of money out east and little elsewhere, he was using a rather nasty identity politics to play one group of people against another, and he was hell bent on introducing a ludicrous tram scheme. It got so bad that he directly led to Labour losing several councils in west London at that time. It took Labour a good few years and a lot of effort to win them back, and one of them (Hammersmith & Fulham) was so changed by the Tory-led council that instead of being comfortably Labour-run it will now forever be a marginal borough. Labour being stupid enough to select him again 4 years later was ridiculous, thank god he won't be standing in 2016.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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Is BoJo a fool? No, his buffoonery hides a dangerous ideological mania. His time in office has been a disaster for London and Londoners.

 

But him defeating Livingstone doesn't prove anything. By the end of his second term as Mayor Ken was hated in large parts of London, particularly in the west. He was spending lots of money out east and little elsewhere, he was using a rather nasty identity politics to play one group of people against another, and he was hell bent on introducing a ludicrous tram scheme. It got so bad that he directly led to Labour losing several councils in west London at that time. It took Labour a good few years and a lot of effort to win them back, and one of them (Hammersmith & Fulham) was so changed by the Tory-led council that instead of being comfortably Labour-run it will now forever be a marginal borough. Labour being stupid enough to select him again 4 years later was ridiculous, thank god he won't be standing in 2016.

 

I'm not sufficiently familiar with London to judge Johnson as its Mayor.

 

How has his time in office been a disaster?

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If the Tories care about eradicating poverty, improving the lives of workers and improving human rights for us all they've got a ###### funny way of showing it. 

 

The problem is that you and Phil and other like you, decent people in your own right, have been brainwashed into believing the  Big Lie as exemplified by Corbyn's grotesque 

Hieronymus Bosch style portrayal.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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The problem is that you and Phil and other like you, decent people in your own right, have been brainwashed into believing the  Big Lie as exemplified by Corbyn's grotesque 

Hieronymus Bosch style portrayal.

 

Brainwashed? By who?


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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The problem is that you and Phil and other like you, decent people in your own right, have been brainwashed into believing the  Big Lie as exemplified by Corbyn's grotesque 

Hieronymus Bosch style portrayal.

 

You are avoiding the question!

 

I voted Tory at the last election for a number of reasons. I distinctly remember this board stating that it would support the introduction of a 'living wage' in replacement to Tax Credits as the employer should be forced to pay a wage rather than relying on the state to top up low wages; but as long as it didn't unfairly impact the less-well off. Now I am not sure if the Tories have achieved this without seeing a reduction in the take-home of the lesser paid people in society; probably not I am guessing having read a little around the subject. I don't think that is right...

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Putin's not the PM of this country.  What Thatcher did to the manufacturing industry of this country, and they way she built up financial services at their expense are responsible for the mess we're in today, not just the deficit, but the enormous trade gap.  Plus of course there was the virtual deliberate destruction of the trades union movement, (which Cameron is continuing)  The selling off at knock down prices of swathes of council houses, without replacing them, leaving us with the current housing shortage. Then of course there was North Sea Oil.  The revenues from Norwegian oil went into a national wealth fund.  The revenues of British oil seem to have disappeared.    No wonder the people of Goldthorpe rejoiced when she died.  She destroyed their industry and with it any hopes of a well paid job.  Thatcher was a disaster for our country.  Of course the tame Tory press would never say so.

 

What did Thatcher do to the manufacturing sector in the UK?  How does anything she supposedly did create the trade gap you say exists and how did it contribute to the structural deficit? She left office in November 1990.

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Jerry heartily sang the old socialist ditty down the pub after he had won.  Yet he couldn't bring himself to sing the national anthem at the battle of Britain service.

The servicemen of that era fought for King and country, what a pity Corbyn didn't bear that in mind.

First official engagement as leader of HM Opposition and he's off to a flier.

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Jerry heartily sang the old socialist ditty down the pub after he had won.  Yet he couldn't bring himself to sing the national anthem at the battle of Britain service.

The servicemen of that era fought for King and country, what a pity Corbyn didn't bear that in mind.

First official engagement as leader of HM Opposition and he's off to a flier.

The national anthem pays homage to the Queen, not the RAF and the servicemen who fought in the Battle of Britain. The two are distinct things.

 

Personally, and I consider myself an Englishman to my fingertips, I've never sung GSTQ and I don't see that I ever will.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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The national anthem pays homage to the Queen, not the RAF and the servicemen who fought in the Battle of Britain. The two are distinct things.

 

Personally, and I consider myself an Englishman to my fingertips, I've never sung GSTQ and I don't see that I ever will.

 

It pays homage to the head of state.  Those who fought in WWII, were fighting for King and country.  ROYAL Air Force was our team in the Battle of Britain.  He's really not helping himself is he?

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It pays homage to the head of state.  Those who fought in WWII, were fighting for King and country.  ROYAL Air Force was our team in the Battle of Britain.  He's really not helping himself is he?

 

Yes, you're right. Corbyn is the real hsyterical one here.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I'm not sufficiently familiar with London to judge Johnson as its Mayor.

 

How has his time in office been a disaster?

He has exacerbated the damage to London's architecture, destroyed the Skyline (in particular around St Paul's but also elsewhere), he's ridden roughshod over local communities in terms of planning applications, he's directly and deliberately encouraged the mass-selling of London to foreign 'investors' who are simply using this city as a safe deposit box, he's destroyed communities in the process, he's sold land assets to friendly organisations like Free Schools for less than market rates...I could go on. In fact, Christian Woolmar had an excellent piece recently about BoJo's actions as Mayor and put the direct cost to Londoners at about £600million.

 

For me though, the worst thing is the destruction of communities. I grew up in Acton, which was very working class albeit with some areas that were aspirational and others perhaps not so much. Of the kids I went to school with only one or two still live there and just a handful more are even in the local area. Most have relocated to the very edges of London or even further out into commuter towns. To live there now you have to be very well paid to afford even a bog-standard terraced house, or so poor that you qualify for one of the tiny number of social homes still to be found. The term social cleansing has been used a lot in recent years but it's absolutely bang on.

 

On the flip side, I'm struggling to think of even one positive thing Boris Johnson's achieved.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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It pays homage to the head of state.  Those who fought in WWII, were fighting for King and country.  ROYAL Air Force was our team in the Battle of Britain.  He's really not helping himself is he?

You're like a Sun editorial come to life.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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