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John Drake

Labour leadership contest

Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?

    • Andy Burnham
      13
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      14
    • Liz Kendall
      7
    • I would never vote Labour
      8
  2. 2. Did you vote Labour in the 2015 General Election?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      29
  3. 3. Do you have a vote in the Labour leadership election?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      44
  4. 4. Who would you vote for in the Labour leadership election?

    • Andy Burnham
      15
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      18
    • Liz Kendall
      9


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Corbyn has appointed Kerry McCarthy as the new Shadow Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.  She's a vegan and vice-president of the League Against Cruel Sports.

 

The guy's an idiot.

 

Are you suggesting that a minister for DEFRA has to be a meat eating supporter of blood sports? If so, why?

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This is taken from Michael Rosen's Facebook's page:

 

Just to balance things out about apologies, terrorism etc:
Nigel Dodds MP (who stood up in the House of Commons and condemned John McDonnell and was solemnly 'seconded' by Cameron,), attended a wake for Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) leader John Bingham. So of course when Dodds condemned McDonnell, Cameron leaped to his feet and said,'Hah! Hark who's talking! I don't think you're in any position to condemn someone who appeared to honour terrorists. What were you doing at John Bingham's house on the day(s) of his funeral? Will you be condemning the UVF and John Bingham?'
Yeah, that's what Cameron said, wasn't it?
Why not?
What stopped him from making that point? He would have shown that he condemned 'all' terrorism. But he didn't.

 

Below are David Cameron's comments in the House of Commons in reply to Nigel Dodds (DUP). Nigel Dodds attended the wake of John Bingham (UVF). Did the 'terrorism we faced' include the actions of the UVF? Or does that over-complicate what Cameron describes as his 'simple view'?

"...the Right Honourable Gentleman [Mr Dodds] will see he's spoken for many, many in this House and many, many, the vast majority of people in this country.
“I have a simple view, which is the terrorism we faced was wrong, it was unjustifiable...people who seek to justify it should be ashamed of themselves.”

 

 

I know it has a bit of "whataboutism" about it, but adds some context I think.

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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I probably shouldn't ask but, go on then, why does that make him an idiot?

 

 

Are you suggesting that a minister for DEFRA has to be a meat eating supporter of blood sports? If so, why?

 

Labour has always struggled to make much headway in rural constituencies. It obviously is not interested in making any improvement in its relationship with rural communities.

 

Kerry McCarthy has no background expertise in either environmental affairs or agriculture. She hardly seems the placatory type ... an entry from her Wikipedia page:

In May 2012 McCarthy branded a fellow train passenger a "lager drinking oaf" and suggested he should "have been killed before he could breed" in comments made to over 13,000 followers on Twitter.

 

 

 

There is a Labour Party precedent; this woman seems to have even disaffected her own constituency.

 

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/vegetarian-wont-quitwelsh-farm-minister-job.htm

 

From Wikipedia:

Christine Gwyther (born 1959) is a Welsh Labour politician. She held the Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire constituency seat in the National Assembly for Wales from 1999-2007. She failed to retain her seat in the 2007 Welsh Assembly Elections, losing to Conservative candidate Angela Burns; she lost again in the 2011 election to Angela Burns .

During the first term of the Assembly, Gwyther was the Minister of Agriculture under the leadership of Alun Michael. She is a vegetarian and as a result was criticised by farmers and opposition parties, as Wales and the UK were suffering from a beef crisis. She was censured over her failure to deliver on a promised calf-processing scheme.

In 2000, on the eve of the Royal Welsh Show, she was dismissed from her post as Welsh agriculture minister by First Minister, Rhodri Morgan.

In 2008 she sought election to the Pembrokeshire County Council but was defeated by Brian Hall.

She was one of two candidates to be nominated for the 2012 Police and Crime Commissioner for the Dyfed Powys Police region,losing to the Conservative Christopher Salmon.


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None of that has anything to do with her ability to handle Shadow Defra.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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None of that has anything to do with her ability to handle Shadow Defra.

 

Oh, you're right of course. Both the Defra civil servants and the NFU will treat her with all the respect and deference that she clearly warrants.


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Oh, you're right of course. Both the Defra civil servants and the NFU will treat her with all the respect and deference that she clearly warrants.

 

The NFU? To paraphrase the old chestnut that the Church of England is 'the Tory party at prayer', I think it's just as accurate to say that the NFU is 'the Tory party in green wellies and a Barbour'.

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The NFU, the tories favourite union, that and the police federation


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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Oh, you're right of course. Both the Defra civil servants and the NFU will treat her with all the respect and deference that she clearly warrants.

Okay, so you still haven't explained why she can't do the job and why Corbyn's an idiot for appointing her.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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Okay, so you still haven't explained why she can't do the job and why Corbyn's an idiot for appointing her.

 

Time will tell. Although, we'll have to wait ten years for another Labour government.


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Corbyn has appointed Kerry McCarthy as the new Shadow Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.  She's a vegan and vice-president of the League Against Cruel Sports.

 

The guy's an idiot.

Cameron appointed a climate change denying, foxhunting, pro badger culler to the DEFRA job.

Who also turned out to be totally useless btw.

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Cameron appointed a climate change denying, foxhunting, pro badger culler to the DEFRA job.

Who also turned out to be totally useless btw.

 

Paterson was pretty good.

 

It's the current incumbent, Liz Truss, that's useless.

 

Paterson got sacked because he wasn't a yes man.


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Paterson was pretty good.

 

It's the current incumbent, Liz Truss, that's useless.

 

Paterson got sacked because he wasn't a yes man.

No Patterson got sacked because he allowed the badger cull to go ahead, even thought it's ineffective and uneconomic. Of course the Tories can't say this.  Yet.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Corbyn is clearly struggling to find MPs to appoint to ministerial positions.

 

He has now appointed a Scottish Lord who has served time in prison for arson to be an Education Minister for England.

 

He keeps giving ammunition to his enemies.

I really think that the Labour MPs just don't get that he's actually leader.  If he fails as leader because the mainstream MPs stood to the side and sneered I don't think the party faithful will remain that faithful.  There's a clear mandate from the party's membership for him to be leader, just suck it up and make the best of it.  The sole senior Labour MP with any spine is Burnham who recognises that the only way to moderate Corbyn is from within and within the bounds of collective responsibility.  A strong cabinet full of moderators can hold even the strongest and most willful leader to account.

 

2015 I voted Labour with a held nose and serious regret.  I'll do the same in 2020 with Corbyn in charge.  If they manage to eject Corbyn for one of the "modern" Labour MPs with the same proven-bad style that saw Labour lose in 2010 and 2015 then I'm not.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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My local MP, Bill Esterson, has just been appointed as shadow minister for small businesses. An excellent appointment as he's an ex small businessman himself and has long been a real advocate of small businesses.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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On 18 September 2015 the new Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn appointed Baron (Mike) Watson of Invergowrie  as education spokesman in the House of Lords.

 

Education is obviously a burning issue for this bloke:

 

From Wikipedia:

 

On 15 November 2004, Lord Watson was charged with two counts of "wilful fire raising" after a private reception at Edinburgh's Prestonfield Hotel following the Scottish Politician of the Year awards on 11 November. The first alleged that he set fire to a curtain in the hotel's reception, and the second that he set fire to a curtain in the hotel's Yellow Room.

...

On 22 September 2005, Lord Watson was sentenced to 16 months' imprisonment. Sheriff Kathrine Mackie justified the sentence, stating that there was both "a significant risk of re-offending" and that Lord Watson offered no explanation. She also told Lord Watson that consumption of alcohol "neither excuses nor fully explains your behaviour." The sentence was reduced from 20 months to 16 because Watson had pleaded guilty before the case reached trial Lord Watson appealed against his sentence on 23 March 2006 but the appeal judges refused to cut the term, and he was returned to prison. After serving eight months of his sentence, he was released on 23 May 2006.


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I really think that the Labour MPs just don't get that he's actually leader.  If he fails as leader because the mainstream MPs stood to the side and sneered I don't think the party faithful will remain that faithful.  There's a clear mandate from the party's membership for him to be leader, just suck it up and make the best of it.  The sole senior Labour MP with any spine is Burnham who recognises that the only way to moderate Corbyn is from within and within the bounds of collective responsibility.  A strong cabinet full of moderators can hold even the strongest and most willful leader to account.

 

2015 I voted Labour with a held nose and serious regret.  I'll do the same in 2020 with Corbyn in charge.  If they manage to eject Corbyn for one of the "modern" Labour MPs with the same proven-bad style that saw Labour lose in 2010 and 2015 then I'm not.

Didn't work with Thatcher.  I wonder why it's ok to brand Corbyn a "lefite" and not brand Thatcher a "rightie?"


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Didn't work with Thatcher.  I wonder why it's ok to brand Corbyn a "lefite" and not brand Thatcher a "rightie?"

I wouldn't say those who opposed Thatcher from within were moderates!  If you look at Corbyn, he even wanted to work with Kendall yet she walked away, same with Cooper.  Umunna before the election result was announced was sounding conciliatory but then refused to work with Corbyn.  It's hard for him to work with those who oppose him if they won't join in.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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When your supporters describe you as a "peace-loving, bike-riding, elderly man", I'm not sure you're onto a winner.

 

I actually thought Corbyn's performance at PMQs this week was refreshing and innovative, and he was very dignified. The Labour Party should be taking advantage of that approach to broaden its electoral appeal.

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When your supporters describe you as a "peace-loving, bike-riding, elderly man", I'm not sure you're onto a winner.

I actually thought Corbyn's performance at PMQs this week was refreshing and innovative, and he was very dignified. The Labour Party should be taking advantage of that approach to broaden its electoral appeal.

If Labour are going to make a success of the Corbyn era that's exactly what they will have to do. Like I think I've said before my constituency MP seems to make the effort to be the MP for all his constituents regardless of their background. On the back of his approach he enjoyed a huge increase in his majority in a constituency with a very varied demographic.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Is the tory anti-Corbyn campaign beginning to back-fire?

Tories criticised Jeremy Corbyn for not going to the rugby... but he was doing this instead

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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