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ckn

£12bn in welfare cuts

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So, where are the £12bn in cuts to welfare coming from?  This article shows it quite nicely in pretty pictures what we're spending welfare money on.

 

We could cut ALL unemployment benefit and still have another £7.5bn to find.  Even I can't believe that the Tories would cut all unemployment benefits though... Pensions are locked in.  I doubt IDS will play too hard with child-related benefits.  That leaves disability and low-income benefits.

It'll be interesting anyway.  Not in a good way, but interesting.


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Seems ridiculous the government isn't willing to chop some of the savings out of pensions. Even a 5% cut would produce 6bn. Seems any cuts would effect the other groups by a far great magnitude. I had little idea of the numbers involved in welfare.


Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

[

i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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You do know that saving £12bn by end of 2018 could be achieved without actually cutting any benefits from their current level ?

 

Government spending/budget forecasts adjust the amounts for inflation, and their plan isn't to cut £12bn from the current amount but to cut it from the forecasted cost. It is pure scaremongering when people suggest otherwise.

 

At a current welfare cost of ~£230bn an arbitrary inflationary rate of 1.5% per year would increase the cost to £241bn by 2018. You could therefore achieve an £11bn saving by freezing benefits at their current level.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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You do know that saving £12bn by end of 2018 could be achieved without actually cutting any benefits from their current level ?

 

Government spending/budget forecasts adjust the amounts for inflation, and their plan isn't to cut £12bn from the current amount but to cut it from the forecasted cost. It is pure scaremongering when people suggest otherwise.

 

At a current welfare cost of ~£230bn an arbitrary inflationary rate of 1.5% per year would increase the cost to £241bn by 2018. You could therefore achieve an £11bn saving by freezing benefits at their current level.

I believe it's real terms cuts pledged, not inflation adjusted, otherwise that's a far less effective way to help cut the £90bn deficit to zero.  Also, if inflation is at 1.5% and you don't increase benefits by that then you are actually cutting benefits in real terms, anything else is sophistry.


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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The Foreign Aid budget is c£12 billion. I think chopping that would cover it.

 

Ah the UKIP argument. Pull up the drawbridge. However, they also want to trade with the world - when the world sees a petty, small minded insular country who got a lot of their wealth by pillaging the world for the best part of 300 years they may be less willing to trade with them. 


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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Seems ridiculous the government isn't willing to chop some of the savings out of pensions. Even a 5% cut would produce 6bn. Seems any cuts would effect the other groups by a far great magnitude. I had little idea of the numbers involved in welfare.

At the GE2015 Labour out-polled the Tories in every age group except for the over 65's, where it was massively the other way around. Why would that be? How about the inheritance tax threshold and pensions.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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We could save £34Billion a year if we didn't have such a disgusting low pay culture in this country. And yet just yesterday the Institute of Directors was calling for Osbourne to focus spending cuts on the poorest rather than make their members pay higher taxes or fairer wages.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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. However, they also want to trade with the world - when the world sees a petty, small minded insular country who got a lot of their wealth by pillaging the world for the best part of 300 years they may be less willing to trade with them.

Nonsense by that logic nobody would trade with Germany because of the Nazis.


Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

[

i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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At the GE2015 Labour out-polled the Tories in every age group except for the over 65's, where it was massively the other way around. Why would that be? How about the inheritance tax threshold and pensions.

Indeed money talks. The over 65 s are also more likely to vote and more likely to be in the wavering to vote UKIP camp.

Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

[

i]Mr. Burns: Woah, slow down there maestro. There's a *New* Mexico?[/i]

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The confirmed cuts are:

 

EEA Nationals (except Irish ones) to be denied in work benefits for 4 years and any job seeking benefits ever. No child benefits to ever be claimed for

 

18-21 year olds to be denied Housing Benefit (unless they are estranged from their parents or care leavers; presumably also if they have children) and after 6 months unemployment to do 30 hours per week work for their £57.90. People in full time education or training to be exempted, but with a strong push on apprenticeships

 

2 year benefit freeze

 

Benefit cap to be reduced to £23,000 per year nationally, and lower than this regionally

 

So far that's £1.5 billion saved, £10.5 billion remaining from unannounced cuts.

 

The rumoured further cuts are:

 

Means testing contribution based JSA

Scrapping child benefit for more than 2 children

Reducing the child benefit for a first child to the rate for the 2nd child

Lowering the means testing threshold for child benefit

Increasing the deductions for the bedroom tax

 

and the even nastier ones:

 

Means testing carer's allowance

Taxing disability benefits for people earning above income tax threshold

Ending Housing benefit and sickness benefits for under 25s

Make fitness for work tests even stricter

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Carer's allowance is already means tested. Happened last parliament I believe.

There's still a one year average wait for Personal Independence Payment assessment. If they make the test any harder then they'll definitely cut the benefit cost because you'd have to wait until you're dead to get it.

The work related ones are shameful enough as it is already as well


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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The regional benefit cap I have some sympathy for and removing child benefit from better off people and unpleasant as it may seem I can see why they don't want benefits for EEA national job seekers but the other proposals seem harsh, especially the disability ones.

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Seems ridiculous the government isn't willing to chop some of the savings out of pensions. Even a 5% cut would produce 6bn. Seems any cuts would effect the other groups by a far great magnitude. I had little idea of the numbers involved in welfare.

 

I'd be surprised in pensions aren't in there somewhere. Mine has just been reduced in value last month... I am sure that has happened in other public sector roles as well.

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I'd be surprised in pensions aren't in there somewhere. Mine has just been reduced in value last month... I am sure that has happened in other public sector roles as well.

They've spun the NHS pension changes so that it appears fairer but really means a lot of people will get a lower pension and it's extraordinarily aimed at the lower grades, and the unions accepted it as fair.  For people like me though who came into the NHS at a fairly senior grade I expect my relative pension to increase rather than decrease in the new scheme as it's geared to reflect salary earned per year, I made a rough calculation that I'd be getting about 10% higher pension if I stayed in the NHS until I retired than in the old scheme.


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Trade not aid. It sticks in the throat a bit when India receives UK aid and has a space programme.

We can't call it bribery so we call it aid and British companies get the contracts for the infrastructure

Simples


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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We can't call it bribery so we call it aid and British companies get the contracts for the infrastructure

Simples

We "help" other countries with state funding so they'll give British companies business.  Those British companies will then use all manner of tax schemes to ensure that no corporation tax, PAYE or any other tax revenue gets into the British government's coffers, all while hiring the cheapest foreign nationals they can.  Yay.


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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They've spun the NHS pension changes so that it appears fairer but really means a lot of people will get a lower pension and it's extraordinarily aimed at the lower grades, and the unions accepted it as fair.  For people like me though who came into the NHS at a fairly senior grade I expect my relative pension to increase rather than decrease in the new scheme as it's geared to reflect salary earned per year, I made a rough calculation that I'd be getting about 10% higher pension if I stayed in the NHS until I retired than in the old scheme.

 

It is definitely negatively affecting my pension. I am not complaining (and have nobody to do it too anyway!) as it is still pretty decent but will get an average earnings pension over my career rather than final salary one. At least I started the new part on my current wage (legacy rights on the amount already accrued) so at least I am not starting from scratch.

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We "help" other countries with state funding so they'll give British companies business. Those British companies will then use all manner of tax schemes to ensure that no corporation tax, PAYE or any other tax revenue gets into the British government's coffers, all while hiring the cheapest foreign nationals they can. Yay.

I wasn't advocating it just pointing out how it works and yes you're quite correct


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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It is definitely negatively affecting my pension. I am not complaining (and have nobody to do it too anyway!) as it is still pretty decent but will get an average earnings pension over my career rather than final salary one. At least I started the new part on my current wage (legacy rights on the amount already accrued) so at least I am not starting from scratch.

But what about those coming behind you who won't be so lucky?


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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But what about those coming behind you who won't be so lucky?

 

They aren't as lucky but they still get a pretty decent pension. There is nothing we can do about the situation.

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Nonsense by that logic nobody would trade with Germany because of the Nazis.

 

Great, we got to Godwin in 10 posts.

 

 

Actually, America's massive aid programme to Germany after WW2 is a classic example of how you can improve everybody's situation by not being isolationist and seeing the bigger picture.

 

Oddly, George W Bush has a far better reputation in Africa and other parts of the world than he does in Europe because he put through some fairly substantial and effective aid programmes.

 

While we're on pensions, why in this age of job insecurity do MPs get a cushy pension deal when they leave / get booted out of office? Very few others do. Perhaps they should all be on zero hour contracts.

Edited by tim2

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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