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£12bn in welfare cuts

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This young lady has achieved more in her 20 years here than you will ever do in a lifetime and all you can do is sneer at her because she points out that the poor having to rely on foodbanks in the 21st century in what is one of the richest countries in the world is a bad thing. 

Or that someone gets sanctioned for collapsing on the way to a JobCentre appointment and being 15 late.  Or even that Labour just don't seem to care about that any more at Parliamentary Party level.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Or that someone gets sanctioned for collapsing on the way to a JobCentre appointment and being 15 late.  Or even that Labour just don't seem to care about that any more at Parliamentary Party level.

 

Indeed. To be fair, there are still plenty of Labour MPs who do care, but the Harriet Harmen's of the party don't help.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Or that someone gets sanctioned for collapsing on the way to a JobCentre

She didn't tell us why this guy hadn't eaten for 5 days and couldn't even afford a loaf of bread. What had he done with his JSA (or whatever benefits he's entitled to) ? Nobode recevies that little state benefits that they can't afford to eat for 5 days.

As sad as this guys story is there are no dount other circumstances that have contributed to it that she chose not to divulge for her own political gain !


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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This young lady has achieved more in her 20 years here than you will ever do in a lifetime and all you can do is sneer at her because she points out that the poor having to rely on foodbanks in the 21st century in what is one of the richest countries in the world is a bad thing.

What has she achieved though? All she did was get elected on the back of a nationalist surge. I'll concede that getting elected as an MP when you don't know your ass from your elbow can be seen as an achievement but let's she what she does before hailing her as some sort of hero.

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She didn't tell us why this guy hadn't eaten for 5 days and couldn't even afford a loaf of bread. What had he done with his JSA (or whatever benefits he's entitled to) ? Nobode recevies that little state benefits that they can't afford to eat for 5 days.

As sad as this guys story is there are no dount other circumstances that have contributed to it that she chose not to divulge for her own political gain !

There's all sorts of reasons why not.  For example, if he had a family and he's struggling with fuel poverty in a Scottish winter to keep them warm and fed then he may have chosen to not feed himself rather than see his kids go food light.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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What has she achieved though? All she did was get elected on the back of a nationalist surge. I'll concede that getting elected as an MP when you don't know your ass from your elbow can be seen as an achievement but let's she what she does before hailing her as some sort of hero.

I think she'd acknowledge quite fairly that when she was nominated as a learning experience for her, much like other parties blood their promising youngsters in no-hoper constituencies.  The difference for her though is that she is actually a local rather than someone parachuted in for experience.

 

The sole difference this tranche of SNP MPs have made so far is to challenge the establishment.  For example, it's OK to heckle and act like a room full of unsupervised toddlers most of the time but to dare actually want one of their own assigned seats is harrumphed at like a 1900s gentleman's club.  Labour are quite content working with the Tories and really are just the same sorts of people but with different coloured rosettes, simply them being "not like them" is enough for them to stand out for me.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Exceptional speech!

 

Certainly a very eloquent speech, which could almost be described as Bennite.

 

I would be surprised, though, if there isn't a race to identify the man who she identifies as having cried openly in front of her.

 

I'm not sure whether he would want to be identified.

 

On the other hand, I hope she didn't make him up.

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There's all sorts of reasons why not. For example, if he had a family and he's struggling with fuel poverty in a Scottish winter to keep them warm and fed then he may have chosen to not feed himself rather than see his kids go food light.

There are indeed various reasons. But until we know the story then it's pretty much guesswork. He could have put all his money in the bandit/horses. As MS alludes, will this guy now be identified? Does he want that?

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The research, carried out by Ipsos Mori from a phone survey of 1,015 people aged 16 to 75, lists ten misconceptions held by the British public. Among the biggest misconceptions are:

- Benefit fraud: the public think that £24 of every £100 of benefits is fraudulently claimed. Official estimates are that just 70 pence in every £100 is fraudulent - so the public conception is out by a factor of 34.

Wow thats a huge poll and a phone survey,who the hell are going to admit they are cheating the state?

Cant imagine many pensioners fiddling the state.

It says Official "Estimates",well i dont think any government would like to admit to the real figure

These people dont live in the real world

And given the errors the pollsters made at the last election,which idiots are going to believe this tosh

Let's get one thing straight. Those who are going to be losers from this budget are not the population of Scroungerville, they are going to be the working poor. Those actually in jobs who can't make ends meet on what they are paid. Sure they'll get the "living wage"(eventually) but they'll also have their tax credits taken away. So (according to the IFS) they'll actually be worse off. Plus of course the nurses, firemen, local government workers, ambulancement etc. who are all already worse off under this government. Having actually had a pay cut since 2010 and will be suffering a further pay cut until 2020. Edited by John Drake

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Yet more confirmation of the offensive nature of the Tories, bring forward plans to cut £12bn of welfare funding, restrict public sector pay rises to 1% a year maximum, all because we're in "austerity" yet MPs will get an 11% pay rise.

 

"Number 10 said Mr Cameron would accept the £7,000 pay rise, taking his total salary to nearly £150,000, despite opposing it."

 

Nice slow hand-clap for double standards.  I thought MPs were public sector employees after all so shouldn't they get 1%?

 

Also, for those who say that it's an independent body who recommended it, remember Cameron overruled other independent pay bodies for public sector workers in the last few years when they recommended higher pay.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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On a related note, it seems the lowest paid NHS staff would need a 15% pay increase to hit £9 p/h by 2019. Unfortunately, as they're public sector workers, they'll be limited to 1% per annum.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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Yet more confirmation of the offensive nature of the Tories, bring forward plans to cut £12bn of welfare funding, restrict public sector pay rises to 1% a year maximum, all because we're in "austerity" yet MPs will get an 11% pay rise.

"Number 10 said Mr Cameron would accept the £7,000 pay rise, taking his total salary to nearly £150,000, despite opposing it."

Nice slow hand-clap for double standards. I thought MPs were public sector employees after all so shouldn't they get 1%?

Also, for those who say that it's an independent body who recommended it, remember Cameron overruled other independent pay bodies for public sector workers in the last few years when they recommended higher pay.

I believe the term for this type of economic offensive against certain sections of society is known as "class war" the Tories are enthusiastic in pursuing this war. Some of their supporters may claim there is no such thing but the Tory elite know it and believe in it.

Labour used to believe in it but now tend to use the phrase "all working people" instead of working class.


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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On a related note, it seems the lowest paid NHS staff would need a 15% pay increase to hit £9 p/h by 2019. Unfortunately, as they're public sector workers, they'll be limited to 1% per annum.

Staff that would be paid under the national living wage will get that regardless of the 1% rule. The people on £9 an hour now are the ones that will suffer

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To be fair, the NHS scrapped the lowest spine point in the lowest band of pay.  The lowest pay you can get in the NHS now is £15,100 and even then I doubt there will be many people on that low grade.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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This young lady has achieved more in her 20 years here than you will ever do in a lifetime and all you can do is sneer at her because she points out that the poor having to rely on foodbanks in the 21st century in what is one of the richest countries in the world is a bad thing. 

Dont know how to multipost so having read since ive posted last night i'll try to remember whats been posted since.

First of all Craig the pubs have'nt closed early,ive been to work all day,had my tea,seen my family,chilled for a bit then turned this on.Very poor from a moderator

Griff i got you confused with where you were from as your a wigan supporter i assumed you were from wigan,i apologised for that,then you come out with a statement like this you dont know me at all,as johnoco says what has she achieved a scottie dog would have won that seat.

As for her story,produce him,any bloke that cant feed himself for 5 days has other issues, drugs alcohol debts/loan sharks betting habits,does he live in Jaywick.?

I do sympathise with the genuine unemployed and disabled who are genuine claimants ,the rest who like Derwent pointed out are career claimants are parasites.

This business of food banks is quite pathetic really,i have friends(yes i have friends)who are genuinely unemployed,their priorities are feeding their family(including themselves) and heating their house,they cope ok they dont have foreign holidays ,but 1 family have saved up to take their 3 children to Towyn for a week, ok not exoctic but the kids were exstatic,never once have these had to use a food bank,because they get their priorities right.

They dont smoke,drink occassionally,dont visit betting shops,but the main reason is these people dont buy something they cant afford,i work in the social housing sector and the number of tenants that have bigger tv's than me astounded me,until i found out why,most buy/rent from companies like Brighthouse/Uk Homemaker,basically buy now pay forever, recently we were working at a house,brighthouse delivered a huge tv, shocked i checked it out on currys site it was £1100, checked  brighthouse it'll cost her just under £4k,but in her eyes its ONLY £x amount a week,its education thats lacking,its a buy now pay later society.

Its like the business of pensioners freezing to death in winter,no pensioner in Britain should ever be without heating if the cold weather payment is/was paid direct to the energy that supplies them,instead they pay the pensioner direct who most just buys better xmas presents for their grandchildren.

Living on benefits(genuinely) is possible as long as you dont have bad vices and put your children and home first

No doubt some will disagree with my views but my view is my view and as i'm involved in the social sector i think i'm better educated at this than some snippets from an article from a journo

Buy what you can afford dont try and keep up with the jones when on genuine benefits,feed and heat your house first forget about luxuries

Also most all the houses we go in have pets/dogs/cats even exotic reptiles, should they be priorities

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Yet more confirmation of the offensive nature of the Tories, bring forward plans to cut £12bn of welfare funding, restrict public sector pay rises to 1% a year maximum, all because we're in "austerity" yet MPs will get an 11% pay rise.

 

"Number 10 said Mr Cameron would accept the £7,000 pay rise, taking his total salary to nearly £150,000, despite opposing it."

 

Nice slow hand-clap for double standards.  I thought MPs were public sector employees after all so shouldn't they get 1%?

 

Also, for those who say that it's an independent body who recommended it, remember Cameron overruled other independent pay bodies for public sector workers in the last few years when they recommended higher pay.

You might be surprised but the leader of my town council earned/claimed over £120k for the last financial year

Not bad aye

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Certainly a very eloquent speech, which could almost be described as Bennite.

 

I would be surprised, though, if there isn't a race to identify the man who she identifies as having cried openly in front of her.

 

I'm not sure whether he would want to be identified.

 

On the other hand, I hope she didn't make him up.

If it smells liike ---- it usually is

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I think there is an assumption that people such as Trojan, Ckn and Weary Rhino do not believe there is welfare fraud.  I do not think that is true and it might even be a few times more than the estimate.

 

I can also see the point that when people who work hard can find it tough to make ends meet, it is truely galling to see people getting a free ride.  This is what Back to The Future writes about strongly.

 

That said, the amount in economic terms is relatively trivial.  It does not mean it does not matter.  But worrying about the deficit is a complete red herring.  Much of it is based on the concept that working people are an overhead. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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I think there is an assumption that people such as Trojan, Ckn and Weary Rhino do not believe there is welfare fraud.  I do not think that is true and it might even be a few times more than the estimate.

 

I can also see the point that when people who work hard can find it tough to make ends meet, it is truely galling to see people getting a free ride.  This is what Back to The Future writes about strongly.

 

That said, the amount in economic terms is relatively trivial.  It does not mean it does not matter.  But worrying about the deficit is a complete red herring.  Much of it is based on the concept that working people are an overhead. 

Of course there's welfare fraud and it should be stopped. It's just nothing like on the scale the Sun and the Mail portray it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/10/britains-unclaimed-benefit-billions

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.org/library/by-date/fraud-in-context.html


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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I think there is an assumption that people such as Trojan, Ckn and Weary Rhino do not believe there is welfare fraud.  I do not think that is true and it might even be a few times more than the estimate.

 

I can also see the point that when people who work hard can find it tough to make ends meet, it is truely galling to see people getting a free ride.  This is what Back to The Future writes about strongly.

 

That said, the amount in economic terms is relatively trivial.  It does not mean it does not matter.  But worrying about the deficit is a complete red herring.  Much of it is based on the concept that working people are an overhead. 

 

Completely agree it does matter as does the tax avoidance at the other end of the scale. The hysteria generated by the media seems to flip between the two - benefit cheats - big business avoiding paying their taxes.

 

Both were mentioned in the budget and hopefully both will be pursued with equal vigour rather than trying to squeeze more from workers above the 'benefits line' (the easy targets who work hard and pay their taxes) but who are a long long way off the 'super wealthy' status mistakenly attributed to them. 

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When is a public sector worker, restricted to a 1% pay rise? When they happen to be an MP: Fury as MPs 10% pay rise confirmed - and will be backdated  :dry:

 

I'm not sure this is a party specific issue or why "fury" should be aimed at one particular party over it. I am certain that there will be MP's of all parties who will forego the money and MP's from all parties who take it.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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I'm not sure this is a party specific issue or why "fury" should be aimed at one particular party over it. I am certain that there will be MP's of all parties who will forego the money and MP's from all parties who take it.

 

True, the hypocrisy of MPs is not limited to a single party. However, there is just one party in power and that party was able to overturn the findings of an independent pay review for other public servants when it suited them, but now when it comes to their own pay pretends that they are powerless and "must" accept the pay rise.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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True, the hypocrisy of MPs is not limited to a single party. However, there is just one party in power and that party was able to overturn the findings of an independent pay review for other public servants when it suited them, but now when it comes to their own pay pretends that they are powerless and "must" accept the pay rise.

 

But they are powerless when it comes to IPSA without an act of parliament being passed. IPSA was created as part of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 and their powers are enshrined in law. For the government to intervene would require a new act of parliament to amend IPSA's remit and to establish the government's lawful right to overrule them. This would apply whichever party was in power.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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Of course there's welfare fraud and it should be stopped. It's just nothing like on the scale the Sun and the Mail portray it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/10/britains-unclaimed-benefit-billions

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.org/library/by-date/fraud-in-context.html

Of course the media will exaggerate things if it suits their argument, everyone does and its hardly a new phenomena. The problem is that while fraud may be relatively small in comparison to tax scammers *at present*, left unchecked it will spiral (like it has done). I aren't arguing from a financial point of view but a moral one there, we're getting generations of families growing up now who see benefits as the way to go - not a fallback. And this can't be a good thing.

I know certain posters hate you to bring facts and actual life experience into the equation (studies and think tanks only please ) but those of us who grew up on poor estates can see the difference in aspirations and lifestyle attitudes already. Of course these 'champions of the underclass' couldn't actually give a stuff about people at the bottom, not really, they need them to fail to satisfy their political theories. They'd probably faint if they ever set foot on a council estate.

Edited by Johnoco

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