terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is a fantastic idea. There's plenty of able people who would volunteer for local amateur and even school level scouting in a similar way to what The Giants do for their academy programme. This area is a hotbed of junior RL, with Moor, Shaw Cross, Drig, Batley, Birstall and Celtic all having teams at various age groups competing at the top level of their competitions. Kids at 16/17 would love telling people they play for the Bulldogs. It's a step up and an aspiration. My daughter is the captain of the all conquering Batley Bulldogs Girls team and it means everything to her and more as a lifelong Dogs fan. The girls team is Buford's idea above already in action - the core of the team are the girls that played for Batley Boys, Birstall Vic, Drig and Thornhill until they were too old to play in the boys leagues. It was obvious when this team of girls got together that they would end up being special - they're currently unbeaten this season and generally hammering other teams with top quality rugby. We (at Batley Boys) had a coaching seminar on talent spotting by (who I think was) one of the heads of the England RL academy. Someone asked what was the main thing he'd like to improve in the England RL player pathways from player-with-potential to Super League and beyond. His reply was that the removal of second teams was massively harming the game in the UK. He said that players that may not be good enough until they are 22-23 are falling out of the game altogether at 16 and 17 if they aren't suitable for Super League by then. He said that these players were generally massively talented but were leaving the game in large numbers as the drop was too far from Super League academy to local amateur. He used Alex Walmesley as an example of a player that came good against the odds and said his path should have been far smoother to the top. If players like Alex were given contracts for 3-5 years in their late teens with a view that they'll be first teamers by the end of that time we wouldn't have this big local talent drain. A chunk of Sky money should be ring fenced for all teams to be able to run reserves. The coaching infrastructure and systems are there (one of the England academy coaches was recently poached by the Australian equivalent) and the noise coming from it should be listened to and acted on. The club need to sign up to Embed the Pathway,a program put in place by the RFL to encourage links between the local pro and amateur clubs,with players and coaches alike working together to improve not only players but coaches too. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Days Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 NL Commercials are also a HUGE company these days and one of the best known commercial vehicle hire companies in the UK. The owner is also Batley born and bred. Could investment be a possibility? If not, the guy is obviously a very canny and shrewd businessman. Would his input be worthwhile at some level? Great point Terminator, but before people invest significant amounts, the Club needs a transparent infrastructure in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTerminator Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Great point Terminator, but before people invest significant amounts, the Club needs a transparent infrastructure in place Correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It could all fit under one banner, the junior section could be known as the Batley Bulldogs pups for example, then they progress up the ranks and at the older age groups can get a chsnce at a scholarship, plus we can attract other promising local amatuers to the club and develop them, without having to throw them in at the deep end and them not being good enough. Clubs like ours need to produce our own talent and this would be win win as we could work in partnership with Batley Boys and is a great way of putting rugby league in the town under one banner - im sure lots of kids would love telling people they play for the Bulldogs, and thus the profile of the club goes up. You may be interested to know that Batley Boys once was the junior arm of Batley RLFC. It ceased to exist during WW2 and the senior club chose not to resurrect it after the War, presumably for financial reasons. It was left to volunteers, including my Uncle, to launch a reformed Batley Boys. I wonder whether the tie needs to be kept at arms length so that the senior club does not find itself funding things that at present comes from other sources? I would guess that present volunteers would also like to keep some measure of independence. It's all supposition on my part, of course, and just playing devil's advocate. It would be interesting to know whether the Bulldogs charity could play a useful role. You have started an interesting strand to this thread and provoked some interesting and seemingly well informed replies. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coates Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This area is a hotbed of junior RL, with Moor, Shaw Cross, Drig, Batley, Birstall and Celtic all having teams at various age groups competing at the top level of their competitions. Don't mention the 'D' word! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You may be interested to know that Batley Boys once was the junior arm of Batley RLFC. It ceased to exist during WW2 and the senior club chose not to resurrect it after the War, presumably for financial reasons. It was left to volunteers, including my Uncle, to launch a reformed Batley Boys. I wonder whether the tie needs to be kept at arms length so that the senior club does not find itself funding things that at present comes from other sources? I would guess that present volunteers would also like to keep some measure of independence. It's all supposition on my part, of course, and just playing devil's advocate. It would be interesting to know whether the Bulldogs charity could play a useful role. You have started an interesting strand to this thread and provoked some interesting and seemingly well informed replies. Well done. The 2 clubs are interlinked anyway, its a logical step to bring it all together, its widely done in Australia and in theory if managed correctly will increase interest in the sport in the town and provide a solid foundation for both clubs to develop and thrive for years to come. Perhaps a lot of kids at Batley Boys follow Leeds or Huddersfield, but if they play for the Bulldogs at under 11 for instance, they are going to naturally follow the first team, and this in turn brings parents and families to games at all levels. What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Days Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Superb thread with great replies so far but hope for more contributions over next few days or more. Just need to see as many opinions as possible and must also be interesting for supporters to see where other supporters are coming from on this topic. Agreed Kevin. What a cracking thread. I am sure that you have now more than enough information and ideas to start implementing a renaissance in the next stage of our Club's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The 2 clubs are interlinked anyway, its a logical step to bring it all together, its widely done in Australia and in theory if managed correctly will increase interest in the sport in the town and provide a solid foundation for both clubs to develop and thrive for years to come. Perhaps a lot of kids at Batley Boys follow Leeds or Huddersfield, but if they play for the Bulldogs at under 11 for instance, they are going to naturally follow the first team, and this in turn brings parents and families to games at all levels. Pro clubs can't run junior teams.That's why systems such as ETP Have been put in place,to foster the links between junior and pro clubs. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Kev, you need some income and new fans, the ones whose glass is half full and aged below 60. God help you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Pro clubs can't run junior teams.That's why systems such as ETP Have been put in place,to foster the links between junior and pro clubs. I never said they could, i suggested a link up of the 2 working together under the bulldogs banner. What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Kev, you need some income and new fans, the ones whose glass is half full and aged below 60. God help you Yawn, go away you hillbilly. What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I never said they could, i suggested a link up of the 2 working together under the bulldogs banner.Which is where ETP comes in.I don't think that they can even give their name to a junior team. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddoggy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Kev, you need some income and new fans, the ones whose glass is half full and aged below 60. God help you Prat! If and when you reach that stage yourself, you will understand what a crass and inaccurate reference that is. You are too dim to realise how little you know. Slither away, there's a good lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackroman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Batley is a small town with a passive interest in Rugby League, surrounded by other towns marginally better off in terms of % interest, so what you're trying to overcome here is years and years of under investment and under achievement. IMO all the initiatives to bring in new fans and better players can only work if there's a new story about Batley, a new vision or future because if you simply repeat the same things but now expect different results you're going to be disappointed. I think you either have to aim high in RL or accept constant mediocrity and these days no one has the patience for mediocrity. That's clear from other threads! I may be going out on a limb here but being a fan of a sports club is no longer about identity with where you live, but about identity with the brand. The first question is, what is the Batley brand and what does it stand for? Second question. Can this brand be big enough to overcome the challenges and if not what are the options? IMO, between Dewsbury and Batley there was/is still a chance to knock into shape a credible story about HW RL that can sell. I believe it can overcome it's neighbouring clubs and become a credible and successful SL team. it may bury interest by fans who identify with a club but may spark interest in those who buy into the brand. Just my twopennoth and I think I may have pointed out the elephant in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Which is where ETP comes in.I don't think that they can even give their name to a junior team. Why not if its mutually beneficial? What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Why not if its mutually beneficial?League rules,if a club lends it's name to a junior team,you have the danger of creating a "super team" drawing the best players from surrounding clubs,to the detriment of junior development. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeper Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Kev, you need some income and new fans, the ones whose glass is half full and aged below 60. God help you congratulations on your promotion to super league rfl will have made sure you go up same as they made sure you dint go down a few years ago they were told there would not be a leigh club if you went down so poor old Gateshead suffered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Days Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Batley is a small town with a passive interest in Rugby League, surrounded by other towns marginally better off in terms of % interest, so what you're trying to overcome here is years and years of under investment and under achievement. IMO all the initiatives to bring in new fans and better players can only work if there's a new story about Batley, a new vision or future because if you simply repeat the same things but now expect different results you're going to be disappointed. I think you either have to aim high in RL or accept constant mediocrity and these days no one has the patience for mediocrity. That's clear from other threads! I may be going out on a limb here but being a fan of a sports club is no longer about identity with where you live, but about identity with the brand. The first question is, what is the Batley brand and what does it stand for? Second question. Can this brand be big enough to overcome the challenges and if not what are the options? IMO, between Dewsbury and Batley there was/is still a chance to knock into shape a credible story about HW RL that can sell. I believe it can overcome it's neighbouring clubs and become a credible and successful SL team. it may bury interest by fans who identify with a club but may spark interest in those who buy into the brand. Just my twopennoth and I think I may have pointed out the elephant in the room. Some very good points Ackroman, and you have stated the obvious that many people would not state . Your final paragraph makes perfect commercial and marketing sense, but there there is over a century of tribal rivalry to overcome in your idea, stemming from two densely populated mill towns providing full house attendances in a bygone cultural era. It would certainly give the Heavy Woollen area an opportunity for a fast route into SL, but an effort on the scale of the Northern Irish peace process would be required ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 League rules,if a club lends it's name to a junior team,you have the danger of creating a "super team" drawing the best players from surrounding clubs,to the detriment of junior development.Thats nonsense.Keighley have the 'Cougar cubs' which goes from under 8s right the way up the age groups - if its against 'league rules' how do they get around it? Theres absolutly nothing wrong or against the rules with the 2 clubs workong together to create a pathway for players in the town to progress - Keighley is a good example of how this structure can work at small clubs. What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thats nonsense. Keighley have the 'Cougar cubs' which goes from under 8s right the way up the age groups - if its against 'league rules' how do they get around it? Theres absolutly nothing wrong or against the rules with the 2 clubs workong together to create a pathway for players in the town to progress. Not nonsense but if you know better then so be it.They are not called the cougar cubs.They are called Keighley Albion,sons team played them at the weekend. True,there is nothing wrong with clubs helping each other,which is why the RFL set up the ETP program. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Batley is a small town with a passive interest in Rugby League, surrounded by other towns marginally better off in terms of % interest, so what you're trying to overcome here is years and years of under investment and under achievement. IMO all the initiatives to bring in new fans and better players can only work if there's a new story about Batley, a new vision or future because if you simply repeat the same things but now expect different results you're going to be disappointed. I think you either have to aim high in RL or accept constant mediocrity and these days no one has the patience for mediocrity. That's clear from other threads! I may be going out on a limb here but being a fan of a sports club is no longer about identity with where you live, but about identity with the brand. The first question is, what is the Batley brand and what does it stand for? Second question. Can this brand be big enough to overcome the challenges and if not what are the options? IMO, between Dewsbury and Batley there was/is still a chance to knock into shape a credible story about HW RL that can sell. I believe it can overcome it's neighbouring clubs and become a credible and successful SL team. it may bury interest by fans who identify with a club but may spark interest in those who buy into the brand. Just my twopennoth and I think I may have pointed out the elephant in the room. That's what I said but with more words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Not nonsense but if you know better then so be it.They are not called the cougar cubs.They are called Keighley Albion,sons team played them at the weekend. True,there is nothing wrong with clubs helping each other,which is why the RFL set up the ETP program. There are junior teams playing called Keighley Cougar cubs. What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrywebbisgod Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There are junior teams playing called Keighley Cougar cubs.In which league? Thank you for your valuable contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Coyle Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There are junior teams playing called Keighley Cougar cubs. But the point being they are not affiliated with Keighley Cougars http://www.keighleycougarcubs.moonfruit.co.uk/ They cant be, its against the RFL operational rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buford t justice Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 But the point being they are not affiliated with Keighley Cougars http://www.keighleycougarcubs.moonfruit.co.uk/ They cant be, its against the RFL operational rules Seems odd they use the same name, I always assumed they were affiliated.Sounds from the history there are definite links though, whether official or otherwise - certainly an avenue to explore IMO What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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