Rumourville: London Broncos to move again

[zorquif]

I agree with Bob8. And I know I'd go there. But I am a nothern 'ex-pat' so not the crowd it's meant to appeal to However, surely we need somewhere in east london for that to really work?

[damp squib]

Maybe Skolars are the future? At least they have a stable home.

[EastLondonMike]

They may have a stable home, but that's about it.

[Janner]

Didn't the Rugby League and Music thing get done in France before Super League started?

If I remember correctly, the French had regional teams in a Summer France Rugby League fronted by Jacques Foroux (former French RU coach) who had fallen out with the Quinzeists.

It was supposedly a success but he went back to the dark side and it folded.

I'm sure it was in an old Open Rugby from the early 90's

[Janner]

From Wikipedia...

In November 1994, Fouroux announced the planned creation of a 'France Rugby League' competition, which was later abandoned in favour of a new rugby league club in Paris, to compete in Rupert Murdoch's Super League.[2] The club, Paris Saint-Germain, only lasted two seasons in European Super League before it collapsed however.

In his final years, Fouroux had been working in Italy with rugby union side L'Aquila.

[Janner]

Looking through Open Rugby, the new venture was announced during the 1994 Australian tour,

There were big plans for a 16 team competition which gradually got whittled down to a six week competition in July, August, September 1995, just as Super League was making preparations to start in March the following year.

Apparently there were the biggest Rugby League crowds for years in France though everyone got in for free and the players didn't get paid!

The games were festivals of music and Rugby League but, with the birth of Super League it wasn't repeated.

So, if the Broncos could do something similar, BUT, charge to get in, it could be a plan.

[westlondonfan]

I think good beer and good food is a great idea. it makes the whole event a good day out.

I think the live music thing might be a bit more problamatic because I guess good bands want good money?

I do remember seeing Mark Butcher's (former Surrey and England cricketer) band at the Stoop after one match but I assume that it not the sort of thing that you mean? I think it might need a bit of planning?

[EastLondonMike]

Wasn't the Fouroux backed comp called the French Rugby League Grand Prix? Seem to recall "Grand Prix" being used..

[Henson Park Old Firm]

20 years on... it could have been very diffrerent... for rugby league

[Bob8]

I think good beer and good food is a great idea. it makes the whole event a good day out.

I think the live music thing might be a bit more problamatic because I guess good bands want good money?

I do remember seeing Mark Butcher's (former Surrey and England cricketer) band at the Stoop after one match but I assume that it not the sort of thing that you mean? I think it might need a bit of planning?

I do not know.  I am not trendy enough.  I have a cousin in Acton who is a bit cooler than me, so I would have to ask her.

 

We had one of Denmark's top hip-hop artists do half time for nothing.  It is possible.  

 

Another idea is organise a Gant Rugger festival.  Have it be their day and it features a rugby match.

[nadera78]

I do not know.  I am not trendy enough.  I have a cousin in Acton who is a bit cooler than me, so I would have to ask her.

 

We had one of Denmark's top hip-hop artists do half time for nothing.  It is possible.  

 

Another idea is organise a Gant Rugger festival.  Have it be their day and it features a rugby match.

As someone who was born and raised in Acton, I think your cousin must be cooler than cool.

 

I like the general idea though, there are lots of events of that nature taking place in London - I'm off to the Ealing Blues Festival on Saturday for example - and a hell of a lot of people go out of their way to find and attend these things.

[Kimbo]

2,278 was Ealing Trailfinders attendance for their last home match apparently.

Freak.

 

They'd just been promoted, and were playing their near-rivals (geographically and league-table-wise) Rosslyn Park, and the rest of their home matches last season struggled to attract much over 500.

A club boosted into a false position by one man.

 

Many parallels around, I think.

[The Parksider]

I got to the home game against Leigh about 90 minutes before the start and while waiting at Wembley Park Station I recognised David Hughes sitting in a Jubilee line carriage all on his own on the surburban line to nowhere. A journey confirmed when he got off at Canons Park in Harrow.

 

One thing I do not think anybody should claim about David is that heart is not in the right place. He has spent enough of his personal fortune on his hobby and its has caused him both to postpone his retirement and rumoured family problems.

 

That said for a Trader in Oli Futures he sure has bought from quite a few snake oil salemen, the results of which have been done to death on his forum. However we cannot change the past and the future is not at The Hive.

 

Simply put the club has to begin to have a revenue stream from commercial activities. This has never been the deal at The Hive and sooner or later commercial reality whould have intruded on the club's unhappy stay in Harrow. The club would always have needed to make this move and the current arrangement made in the scramble to re-establish A Super League Club in name only for the 2014 season and was never going to be a permanent arrangement.

 

As I posted earlier the club's real death sentence was served in September 2013

 

 

As things stand you are probably right. No London team has been met with incredulity down under but although Steve Mascord has claimed that the RFL offered the London Broncos to the NRL. I would surmise this was, in reality, more along the lines of "if you support it so much why do you not pick up the tab". A communally owned club is no more on the NRL agenda than it is on the RFL one.

 

As for the Wigan game, I am indeed a sceptic but I refer you to Brian Noble's article in this month's Fourty-Twenty (my Italics)

 

 

Now I interpret Nobby's comments as referring to the fact that neither Wigan nor the RFL have discussed this with the Capital Club. I could be wrong but that how I read it.

 

 

London Broncos Average 2013 (Stoop) - 2,200

London Broncos Average 2014 (Hive)   - 1,294

Only two London Broncos crowds have barely got into four figures in 2015 with the average around 700

 

Never let facts intrude into your posting..

 

 

 A thoughful post and you would have to query if London have any idea what the market is or should be.

 

Certainly when the thread went up for Southern Rugby League fans to explain why they follow Rugby League there were far too many posts along the lines of:

 

"Me mam served Pimblett Pies at the Eddington end at Saints when I were our kid and since moving down here I see myself as a missionary in a sea of heathens"

 

It probably explains the number of pristine Non-Bronco shirts on display at almost Every Broncos forum - that';s when we had them of course.....

 

You see if wigan draw a crowd of 7,000 comporised of 6,500 Northerns or Northern exiles to a game in London. How does that advance the game in the south?

 

It does not - you need to tap into a southern based non-traditional audience including BME families (an untapped market). Other sports are beginning to crack this market. Rugby League has not scratched the surface.nor seems to want to.

 

The period 1991-2003 is beginning to be regarded by Sports Historians as the periodr in which the major sports in the UK finally professionalised themselves, Soccers - Premiership fuelled by SKY, Cricket - two division P&R, Central Contracts and T20, Rugby Union professionalism and the development of credible European and International Competitions.. All these sports evolved and are still evolving.

 

Rugby League accepted professionalism but then de-evolved and retreated back into the safe world of the 1980's where miiddle aged administrators and fans feel at home. A shrinking sport tugging the forelock to a vanishing Industrial past.,

 

True in all sports there is this constant battle between aged administrators and fans who want to hark back to a sepia tinted past and those who boldly face the future but League is the sport in which the backwoodsmen so spectatularily triumphed

 

The 90's and early 2000's were an opportunity to stake a claim for new markets before other sports occupied this territory. Those conditions no longer exist now - as pointed out a couple of years ago in a RLE article by the Skolars chairman Hector McNeil. Sorry but for most people down here is now a case of  "Rugby League had it's chance - Time to move on"

 

And unless there is some sizemic sporting catastrophy along the line of the Super League war in Australia befalling one of the major sports I'm afraid that's the way it will be..

 

More like an article than a post RR take care of those who want "long posts" banning on here!!

 

I enjoyed it though as I always do your stuff.

 

But I'm hard pressed to join the camp of opinion that somehow but for some smart business thinking Rugby League would now be a growing sport in the capitol.

 

Respect to all but well staged sideshows to a major event may make the best of a London Broncos RL match attendance, but can a Super league business be grown on the back of good food and good music?

 

It's the product that needs to sell, and it has had it's moments but it's just "had it" now.

 

If any analysis of the situation stacks up for me firstly it's investment. As Branson said the investment levels necessary for London Broncos to succeed were humongous. We all agree London Broncos need a permanent home of their own so how many £10's of £Millions would you pitch that at??

 

London Broncos also needed a professional set up - how often has the backroom staff and chairman been villified on this? how many £Millions a year would we pitch that at??

 

I really do not know the sum but if £25M for a home and £3M a year for backroom support costs to run and develop the business since 1996 is plucked from the air then I make that a cool £85,000,000.

 

The other day an estimate of what Hughes had put in was £18,000,000.

 

So without the villification of Hughes sporting business nouse I'd firstly suggest that gross underinvestment is ONE problem. It would appear Melbourne Storm were provided with the investment to succeed and IIRC it was way above £85M however.......

 

......1996 onward was indeed an opportunity to grow Rugby in the London Marketplace, but it's a tough ask when your a fledgling up against a seriously big competitor. Big established Rugby clubs with strong infrastructures and a ready supply of old boys investors from a higher league than Hughes was the opposition. That London is a Rugby City for me helped Broncos to some semblance of credibility at times.

 

Had London had no established Rugby Union to easily mop up the professional rugby opportunity the city offered the sport of Rugby per se in 1996, it would have been a soccer city, like Sheffield who have also failed to grow.

 

I think it fair to say that growing a professional London Broncos from nowhere against a Wasps, Sarries or Quins was an impossible task, but what growth Broncos had, like the junior game and academy was to a certain extent on the back of Union.

 

Had there been no union to talk of in London in 1996 it would have been the souths equivalent of Sheffield where the population have no interest in Rugby League. Oddly London are lauded as useless, whilst Sheffield are hailed as pioneers. 

 

The fine detail of the London Broncos saga is one thing, but the devil was never in the detail.

 

"In short"  London Broncos tried to open a professional Rugby business £10's of Millions short of the required investment sum in a saturated market already cornered by the rival business.

 

Hughes was never the problem, but we all love a villain. If you want someone to blame try SKY, they created the Super league business and they didn't in the end back the London project.

[EastLondonMike]

Please forget this "London is a rugby union city" idea, it never was and never has been.

There are still huge opportunities in London for a rugby league team, just needs the correct level of investment and knowledge.

[The Parksider]

1. Please forget this "London is a rugby union city" idea.

 

2. There are still huge opportunities in London for a rugby league team, just needs the correct level of investment 

 

1. Very hard to do Mike, the club numbers from top pros to many amateurs, the playing numbers and the attendance numbers are a stumbling block for me.

 

2. Pleased that we can agree investment is a problem. What is your estimate of the investment required over say a 10 year business plan?

[leagueman123]

Please forget this "London is a rugby union city" idea, it never was and never has been.

There are still huge opportunities in London for a rugby league team, just needs the correct level of investment and knowledge.

Off course it's not its football through and through.

However given that the RUWC will mainly take place in London and the home stadium of English and world RU is situated in the city the people there will always associate the word rugby as rugby union. This purposed move to a tiny ground in Eailing won't boost RL in London whatsoever apart from save the team a few bob. I think in this day and age the level of investment required would frighten off every investor the cost of a home ground in London is crazy. Saracens could only do it with a billionaire South african backer and taking over a athletics ground which caused major issues.

[The Parksider]

1. Of course it's not its football through and through.

2. I think in this day and age the level of investment required would frighten off every investor the cost of a home ground in London is crazy. Saracens could only do it with a billionaire South african backer 

 

1a. I'd be grateful if someone could explain how Rugby Union does not have a significant presence in the capital????? 

 

320 RU clubs in the London/SE area in 24 leagues

12 of them in the national Rugby Union

Two senior clubs Harlequins averaging 10,000 Sarries averaging 7,000

76,000 watched these two in a double header

 

1b. If it really is like Sheffield "football through and through" even in parts, then how do London therefore have an opportunity to grow the league version of Rugby??

 

2. We are at one here, £Billions is a little more that Hughes' reported £18 Million

[DoubleD]

The problem is less of investment, more of the nomadic nature of the club and the fact it hasn't built roots wherever it has gone. If it had a permanent home, where it could retain revenues, it would afford it a base to be able to work within communities to grow the fan base and build ties with businesses etc to assist commercial revenues. Unless the Broncos find a permanent home, it will continue in decline

[IM2]

They may have a stable home, but that's about it.

ah interesting - junior teams from U7 to U17, Capital Challenge, Friday Night Lights, a superb junior festival yesterday, 20 years history almost in one place

 

the last 2 years has hurt us due to the slow pace of redevelopment at new river. however once done its a superb pad to push on facilities and revenue wise. 

[The Parksider]

The problem is less of investment, more of the nomadic nature of the club and the fact it hasn't built roots wherever it has gone. If it had a permanent home, where it could retain revenues, it would afford it a base to be able to work within communities to grow the fan base and build ties with businesses etc to assist commercial revenues. Unless the Broncos find a permanent home, it will continue in decline

 

Doesn't a permanent home require investment of £10's of Millions?

[DoubleD]

Doesn't a permanent home require investment of £10's of Millions?

In London, probably. Shame no one had the foresight 20 years ago when land prices were so much cheaper. Only solution now is to buy into an existing sports ground or hope for an opportunistic chance of an existing Union/lower league football club struggling to finance and swoop in

[leagueman123]

Sad to see only 543 souls attending Londons game today. Says everything you need to know about the club if you ask me...

[Southern Reiver]

And that mirrors the decline of League generally.

[Lobbygobbler]

And that mirrors the decline of League generally.

What is League?

[Saintslass]

Sad to see only 543 souls attending Londons game today. Says everything you need to know about the club if you ask me...

Or the fact that they play on a Sunday in London when there is extensive engineering works on the tube? (I saw the Broncos warning fans)  And of course Sheffield won't take many fans with them as they don't have many fans to take.