When you need a spead sheet to explain its time to rethink

[Dave T]

I think you are over-egging the reach of these to the general RL fan TBF. I can understand your point about wanting to protect the first part of the competition but to me if you don't promote it again and again and again then people, media and players/officials will unintentionally ridicule it with their ignorance. This only undermines the concept. What I have heard are plenty of media conversations on TV/Radio where this has happened over the last couple of months - even on SKY.

ive heard none, although i have missed the last couple of weeks.

People are used to convoluted tournaments nowadays, my view on it is tgey will tackle each stage chronologically, i think fans in the main will do that here, with the natural rl fans outrage present.

This isnt a criticism of you btw, i think there is an issue, but with limited resources we never communicate anything enough, and personally i dont see this one as a huge issue. I think enough is known at this stage, but that could just be me.

[Krytensmate]

Listening to a question sent into Radio Leeds just now "Why didn't Leeds Rhinos get the League Leaders shield after beating Catalans today" just an example of this.

Because their season hasn't finished ?

Leigh received theirs today because our Championship season has finished

[Scubby]

Fairly sure they've been discussing it on SKY RL coverage in the last few weeks , but again , that isn't the RFLs responsibility , as SKY will be televising it in a weeks time including the middle 8 s I'me sure they'll discuss it in more detail now

 

Discussing it, joking about it and in some cases saying 'I haven't got a clue' (Boots N All). This isn't great for the game.

[Dave T]

Listening to a question sent into Radio Leeds just now "Why didn't Leeds Rhinos get the League Leaders shield after beating Catalans today" just an example of this.

but easily answered and wont be asked next year.

It would be very difficult to answer every question which may be asked, but the site i linked to does a good job.

[Krytensmate]

Discussing it, joking about it and in some cases saying 'I haven't got a clue' (Boots N All). This isn't great for the game.

That tells us all what we already know about SKY RL commentators , maybe Nigel should have rang them personally ?

[Scubby]

Because their season hasn't finished ?

Leigh received theirs today because our Championship season has finished

 

We are talking about whether people are feeling informed. I just highlighted a question that was asked just now. This guy (all gal) may have gone to the game today thinking Leeds were getting this etc. It is an information and understanding lag not a Q&A.

[Krytensmate]

We are talking about whether people are feeling informed. I just highlighted a question that was asked just now. This guy (all gal) may have gone to the game today thinking Leeds were getting this etc. It is an information and understanding lag not a Q&A.

I'll get Nigel to ring them next time ?

Did the Radio Leeds RL commentator answer the question ?

[Scubby]

ive heard none, although i have missed the last couple of weeks.

People are used to convoluted tournaments nowadays, my view on it is tgey will tackle each stage chronologically, i think fans in the main will do that here, with the natural rl fans outrage present.

This isnt a criticism of you btw, i think there is an issue, but with limited resources we never communicate anything enough, and personally i dont see this one as a huge issue. I think enough is known at this stage, but that could just be me.

 

You only introduce a new concept like this once - you have to make every effort to try and inform and inform and inform. My Mum lives in Wakefield (and supports them for her sins) and doesn't follow the game that closely (i.e. attending games). I phoned her last week and she said Wakefield had been relegated and were rubbish. I didn't bother trying to explain to her but the last place she will be looking is the internet. She will watch some games on TV though - particularly on the BBC.

[Scubby]

I'll get Nigel to ring them next time ?

Did the Radio Leeds RL commentator answer the question ?

 

They did and afterwards played an interview with Brian McDermott and he said 'people have been congratulating me on becoming the League leaders and I said we don't get a trophy for this.'

[Krytensmate]

They did and afterwards played an interview with Brian McDermott and he said 'people have been congratulating me on becoming the League leaders and I said we don't get a trophy for this.'

That's what you get living in Yorkshire

[Krytensmate]

You only introduce a new concept like this once - you have to make every effort to try and inform and inform and inform. My Mum lives in Wakefield (and supports them for her sins) and doesn't follow the game that closely (i.e. attending games). I phoned her last week and she said Wakefield had been relegated and were rubbish. I didn't bother trying to explain to her but the last place she will be looking is the internet. She will watch some games on TV though - particularly on the BBC.

Your mums not wrong , but she won't be seeing Wakey on the BBC

[Dave T]

You only introduce a new concept like this once - you have to make every effort to try and inform and inform and inform. My Mum lives in Wakefield (and supports them for her sins) and doesn't follow the game that closely (i.e. attending games). I phoned her last week and she said Wakefield had been relegated and were rubbish. I didn't bother trying to explain to her but the last place she will be looking is the internet. She will watch some games on TV though - particularly on the BBC.

we dont have the resources to educate people who 'doesn't follow the game that closely'.

I class myself as a Lancs CCC fan, ie have been to a few games over the years, but i couldnt even begin to explain their comps or structures.

Lets start with the 100k who go to games, and the 200k tv viewers. I think theyll get it, but it is much easier to explain with teams in slots rather than numbers, which has been a challenge so far.

[Scubby]

Your mums not wrong , but she won't be seeing Wakey on the BBC

 

She did they were on this year.

[Krytensmate]

She did they were on this year.

That's why she said they were rubbish

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I was at a birthday party today for a young person.

I was asked if I could explain the new system, to Wiganers who are casual rugby folloers, how the new system worked I mentioned the RFL recommend downloading their spreadsheet which shows how it works.

Do the RFL recommend downloading their spreadsheet as a means to a basic explanation of the new system?

You've been incredibly disingenuous in your attempt to help this person understand the new system basically because you don't like it, and in turn probably turned someone off the game. Well done.

The hypocrisy of some of the licensing supporters that had a go at the fans who didn't like the loss of P&R (and talked it down as a result) is remarkable. It's really gone full circle.

Got the good of the game at heart though, eh Padge?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

we dont have the resources to educate people who 'doesn't follow the game that closely'.

I class myself as a Lancs CCC fan, ie have been to a few games over the years, but i couldnt even begin to explain their comps or structures.

Lets start with the 100k who go to games, and the 200k tv viewers. I think theyll get it, but it is much easier to explain with teams in slots rather than numbers, which has been a challenge so far.

Exactly. It's a completely new system. It's not a difficult system, but some people are different kinds of learners. Some people understand it straight after being told. Some people need it writing down. And some people need to see it actually happen. Once the first year is out of the way, it'll be easier to point to other examples from the past.

As I've mentioned before, has anyone tried to explain how the NFL works? I doubt Padge would say "there's a spreadsheet for it". You don't need to know the intricacies of the fixture format to explain the system. Those that think they do need to know the far end of a fart seem to only do so as a reason to moan about it being overly complicated. I don't recall anyone slamming the old P&R system because they didn't know how they decided which teams would pay each other a third time. Or that the playoffs were too complicated.

I actually think this new system is far easier to explain than the old playoff system!

[Dunbar]

this has been linked to time and again on here

http://www.therfl.co.uk/rlnewera

https://youtu.be/i7bRG_Tg9aI

Looks pretty straight forward to me.

[Krytensmate]

Looks pretty straight forward to me.

It is

[scotchy]

Give them chance, they did a video at the start of the year, they have a new video being released tomorrow iirc, and will announce fixtures on Weds. Using the fixtures should allow them to demonstrate it more, but ultimately the split is a simple concept, some of the intricacies will make sense as we work through year one.

c'mon Dave, this isn't the fans we are talking about, this is casual fans and newbies. The biggest hurdle to selling any sport is making sure people understand it. We have the challenge of making sure people understand the game, making sure they understand we are different from RU and now making sure they understand very convoluted system.

 

If getting people to understand your structure is an obstacle you need to overcome, it has already failed.

[scotchy]

Exactly. It's a completely new system. It's not a difficult system, but some people are different kinds of learners. Some people understand it straight after being told. Some people need it writing down. And some people need to see it actually happen. Once the first year is out of the way, it'll be easier to point to other examples from the past.

As I've mentioned before, has anyone tried to explain how the NFL works? I doubt Padge would say "there's a spreadsheet for it". You don't need to know the intricacies of the fixture format to explain the system. Those that think they do need to know the far end of a fart seem to only do so as a reason to moan about it being overly complicated. I don't recall anyone slamming the old P&R system because they didn't know how they decided which teams would pay each other a third time. Or that the playoffs were too complicated.

I actually think this new system is far easier to explain than the old playoff system!

The NFL system is about as simple as you can get. 16 games plus sudden death play offs

[Dunbar]

The old top 5 play off system was more complicated than this and there are many people who believe that it was the best system we have had... I have not heard anybody say we should not use it because it is difficult to explain to the neutral sports fan.

[Saintslass]

The basic structure to this system is very easy to explain: after 23 rounds the top two divisions split into three mini leagues of eight.  The top league compete to get to the grand final, the middle eight compete to stay in or get promoted to superleague and the bottom eight compete for a shield and to avoid relegation.  What's not simple about that?  I'm quite sure any non-rugby league fan could easily get their head around that.  Whether they think it's a good system or not is another matter.

 

Remembering the finer details can be tricky not least because as regular fans we have all been caught up in 23 rounds of rugby league and it seems like a long time since it was all first explained to us.  I know I forgot when the Superleague league leaders shield was awarded and had to be reminded by an RFL tweet. (They have been answering a lot of questions on Twitter over the last few weeks but obviously those only reach a limited number of fans)

[my missus]

just so you know.

 

Leeds v St Helens, Wigan, Castleford, Warrington (h), Huddersfield, Hull, Catalans Dragons (a).

 

St Helens v Wigan, Huddersfield, Warrington, Hull (h), Leeds, Castleford, Catalans Dragons (a).

 

Wigan v Huddersfield, Castleford, Hull, Catalans Dragons (h), Leeds, St Helens, Warrington (a).

 

Huddersfield v Castleford, Warrington, Catalans Dragons, Leeds (h), St Helens, Wigan, Hull

 

(a).

Castleford v Warrington, Hull, St Helens (h), Leeds, Wigan, Huddersfield, Catalans Dragons (a).

 

Warrington v Hull, Catalans Dragons, Wigan (h), Leeds, St Helens, Huddersfield, Castleford (a).

 

Hull v Catalans Dragons, Leeds, Huddersfield (h), St Helens, Wigan, Castleford, Warrington (a).

 

Catalans Dragons v Leeds, St Helens, Castleford (h), Wigan, Huddersfield, Warrington, Hull (a).

[Scubby]

The basic structure to this system is very easy to explain: after 23 rounds the top two divisions split into three mini leagues of eight.  The top league compete to get to the grand final, the middle eight compete to stay in or get promoted to superleague and the bottom eight compete for a shield and to avoid relegation.  What's not simple about that?  I'm quite sure any non-rugby league fan could easily get their head around that.  Whether they think it's a good system or not is another matter.

 

Remembering the finer details can be tricky not least because as regular fans we have all been caught up in 23 rounds of rugby league and it seems like a long time since it was all first explained to us.  I know I forgot when the Superleague league leaders shield was awarded and had to be reminded by an RFL tweet. (They have been answering a lot of questions on Twitter over the last few weeks but obviously those only reach a limited number of fans)

 

The three 8s is not the difficult thing to get across. It is the fact that you have 1 set of 8 with a top 4 straight shoot-out grand final, a second set of 8 with 3 automatic places and a convoluted 4/5 one off £1m game and a lower 8 with relegation and a losers GF (5-12 finishes). Try explaining that to the uninitiated.

[Dunbar]

The three 8s is not the difficult thing to get across. It is the fact that you have 1 set of 8 with a top 4 straight shoot-out grand final, a second set of 8 with 3 automatic places and a convoluted 4/5 one off £1m game and a lower 8 with relegation and a losers GF (5-12 finishes). Try explaining that to the uninitiated.

You have just explained it in one paragraph.