ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I've deliberately called this thread by this title rather than Remembrance Day or anything else. Surely this is the earliest sighting of a politician with a poppy ever in a year. What's the point of wearing it so early? The old rule we were told in the army was that 1st November is the earliest you should wear it because it's a specific remembrance event rather than a misguided statement that misses the point. In some ways I wouldn't mind all those people across the media and political arenas wearing them if they actually paid for them themselves. It genuinely misses the point of someone wearing a poppy if they've been given it by someone else because it looks right on TV or in photos. Wear it because you agree with the purpose rather than wearing it because you've been told you have to. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think the appeal was 'launched' a day or 2 ago. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think the appeal was 'launched' a day or 2 ago. I understand that RBL are finding it harder and harder each year to get funding but it's getting a bit silly now. I suppose that means when I come into London next week that I'll be hassled by over-aggressive people pushing them again. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I understand that RBL are finding it harder and harder each year to get funding but it's getting a bit silly now. I suppose that means when I come into London next week that I'll be hassled by over-aggressive people pushing them again. It's basically a four-five week season now. And to avoid any football club not being suitably patriotic they can now buy stick on-able poppies for that ultimate classy act of remembrance. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Every poopy I've ever bought has failed to survive more than an hours wear so I now reuse one of those wrist band thingies I bought years ago. I will chuck a few quid in the first tin I see after sticking it on, after the 1st November. I am happy knowing I'm supporting the charity in my own, low visibility way. In my late teens I joined our local RBL, mainly, it has to be said, to drink and play snooker. However, I did get to know many old soldiers and it was quite surprising how many disliked all the fuss over the whole poppy and remembrance thing telling me it was something they'd much rather forget. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Every poopy I've ever bought has failed to survive more than an hours wear so I now reuse one of those wrist band thingies I bought years ago. I will chuck a few quid in the first tin I see after sticking it on, after the 1st November. I am happy knowing I'm supporting the charity in my own, low visibility way. In my late teens I joined our local RBL, mainly, it has to be said, to drink and play snooker. However, I did get to know many old soldiers and it was quite surprising how many disliked all the fuss over the whole poppy and remembrance thing telling me it was something they'd much rather forget. For the last couple of years, I've gone for the enamelled pin-badge instead of the paper poppy. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Can it be split into a number of segments? 1. To raise funds for the work the RBL does. 2. To provide an opportunity for people who were not there to learnt the story and to think about the sacrifice made by so many 3. An outward (and voluntary) sign of your support I just find the whole thing so oppressive and false, almost. There seems to be a competition, almost, false piety as it were in some, as to who can be the most respectful. Once upon a time, wearing a poppy on air was frowned on, now it seems almost compulsory, of only to avoid judgemental viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Can it be split into a number of segments? 1. To raise funds for the work the RBL does. 2. To provide an opportunity for people who were not there to learnt the story and to think about the sacrifice made by so many 3. An outward (and voluntary) sign of your support I just find the whole thing so oppressive and false, almost. There seems to be a competition, almost, false piety as it were in some, as to who can be the most respectful. Once upon a time, wearing a poppy on air was frowned on, now it seems almost compulsory, of only to avoid judgemental viewers. The bit in bold has become an annual festival of outrage, especially whipped up by the likes of the Daily Mail if it involves BBC presenters. That's another reason why I prefer the pin badges to the paper poppies - it is understated but recognisable, as well as durable. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Can it be split into a number of segments? 1. To raise funds for the work the RBL does. 2. To provide an opportunity for people who were not there to learnt the story and to think about the sacrifice made by so many 3. An outward (and voluntary) sign of your support I just find the whole thing so oppressive and false, almost. There seems to be a competition, almost, false piety as it were in some, as to who can be the most respectful. Once upon a time, wearing a poppy on air was frowned on, now it seems almost compulsory, of only to avoid judgemental viewers. I think you can forget the almost. Do you remember the fuss when Charlene White refused chose not to wear one on screen? And unfortunately it's one of the things that the likes of Britain First etc have latched onto, no doubt they will soon be flooding Facebook/Twitter with false "so and so" refused entry into shop/restaurant for wearing a poppy stories (cue another Facebook friend cull for those repeating such ###### on my timeline). Terrible highjacking of a good cause. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The old rule we were told in the army was that 1st November is the earliest you should wear it because it's a specific remembrance event rather than a misguided statement that misses the point. Can start to wear them from 22 Oct but MUST be wearing one NLT 1 Nov 15 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Can start to wear them from 22 Oct but MUST be wearing one NLT 1 Nov 15 this year. Ah, that's changed then. I remember being read to on parade one year about this, the CO had instituted a standing order that displaying the poppy on uniform, or while in barracks in civilian clothes, before 1st November would be treated as wilfully disobeying his direct order. That standing order was still in place a coupe of years later and we just accepted it as the norm. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't bother looking out for poppy sellers 'til November, as a rule. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 On wearing the thing, I remember last year at Holborn station it almost being a checkpoint to get out of the station to get past the tutting old women. That day was a miserable rainy day so I had my waxed jacket on, I'm not puncturing that jacket with a pin but my suit jacket underneath had a poppy on, you'd think I had a sign that said "I fornicate with animals" above my head going by the looks I got when I declined to donate. (p.s. a waxed jacket is considered compulsory for living in Suffolk, if you don't have one then you're instantly recognisable as "one of them") "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Ah, that's changed then. I remember being read to on parade one year about this, the CO had instituted a standing order that displaying the poppy on uniform, or while in barracks in civilian clothes, before 1st November would be treated as wilfully disobeying his direct order. That standing order was still in place a coupe of years later and we just accepted it as the norm. Sounds like a unit specific standard order? Never seen anything pan-Army/Defence on specific dates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 For the RBL this is pretty much their income for the year, especially as there are now multiple other charities on their 'turf'. However I have to say I rarely wear one, I do donate, but the idea its compulsory does not sit well with me. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Sounds like a unit specific standard order? Never seen anything pan-Army/Defence on specific dates... Quite probably. The CO was rather "special". "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The CEO of TalkTalk was wearing one this morning. Perhaps to make her customers feel slightly less angry towards her for leaking their personal data. I have no problem with the poppy and the appeal - I don't think it glorifies war in any way. However it should not be some kind of badge of patriotism (or lack of) if you do or don't wear one. If people turn up at the BBC with one, then let them wear it. If they turn up without, don't pin one on them like the tail on a donkey. It's false. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCarter Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think you can forget the almost. Do you remember the fuss when Charlene White refused chose not to wear one on screen? And unfortunately it's one of the things that the likes of Britain First etc have latched onto, no doubt they will soon be flooding Facebook/Twitter with false "so and so" refused entry into shop/restaurant for wearing a poppy stories (cue another Facebook friend cull for those repeating such ###### on my timeline). Terrible highjacking of a good cause. Irrespective of any group latching on to this, ITV should ensure that, during broadcasts, it's staff wear the poppy. What it's staff choose to do when not working is entirely up to the individual. This isn't about giving money to charity, it's about never letting the symbol of the sacrifices made be forgotten or diminished. ITV has a responsibility to ensure it plays it's role in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Irrespective of any group latching on to this, ITV should ensure that, during broadcasts, it's staff wear the poppy. What it's staff choose to do when not working is entirely up to the individual. This isn't about giving money to charity, it's about never letting the symbol of the sacrifices made be forgotten or diminished. ITV has a responsibility to ensure it plays it's role in this. No. It is a PERSONAL choice. It must be, otherwise the real symbol HAS been forgotten and diminished. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCarter Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The CEO of TalkTalk was wearing one this morning. Perhaps to make her customers feel slightly less angry towards her for leaking their personal data. I have no problem with the poppy and the appeal - I don't think it glorifies war in any way. However it should not be some kind of badge of patriotism (or lack of) if you do or don't wear one. If people turn up at the BBC with one, then let them wear it. If they turn up without, don't pin one on them like the tail on a donkey. It's false. The BBC & other TV stations should ensure that ALL their broadcasters wear the poppy during screen time. What they then do when off air is down to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Irrespective of any group latching on to this, ITV should ensure that, during broadcasts, it's staff wear the poppy. What it's staff choose to do when not working is entirely up to the individual. This isn't about giving money to charity, it's about never letting the symbol of the sacrifices made be forgotten or diminished. ITV has a responsibility to ensure it plays it's role in this. The BBC & other TV stations should ensure that ALL their broadcasters wear the poppy during screen time. What they then do when off air is down to them. You couldn't be more wrong. Sacrifices were made for freedom, freedom you now want (in a small way, but still important) to deny people. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCarter Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 No. It is a PERSONAL choice. It must be, otherwise the real symbol HAS been forgotten and diminished. Nothing to do with personal choice. The newscasters are in work and it should be official policy to wear the poppy whilst on air. What they do when off air and at any other time IS entirely their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCarter Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You couldn't be more wrong. Sacrifices were made for freedom, freedom you now want (in a small way, but still important) to deny people. No one is being denied any freedom. This is about broadcasters ensuring the correct protocols are observed during air time. What staff do when not on air and in their own time is entirely their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WearyRhino Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 No one is being denied any freedom. This is about broadcasters ensuring the correct protocols are observed during air time. What staff do when not on air and in their own time is entirely their choice. What utter rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Nothing to do with personal choice. The newscasters are in work and it should be official policy to wear the poppy whilst on air. What they do when off air and at any other time IS entirely their choice. Erm.... no. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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