Rugby History Thread

[Leyther_Matt]

On 14/06/2020 at 22:23, Futtocks said:

This photograph just popped up on Twitter, captioned "Two Rugby League players walking to work with some supporters". Can anyone ID names/location? Great photo.

I think (think) it is the site that became Hilton Park in Leigh, with Parsonage Colliery in the background. 

[Padge]

30 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I think (think) it is the site that became Hilton Park in Leigh, with Parsonage Colliery in the background. 

I think you may have nailed it, before Hilton Park was built the area it was built on was Church Fields, open land, between that and Parsonage Colliery were allotments.

[Number 16]

FFS... I'm 58 and just sat through with interest an episode of Paddington Bear. Has life really come to this?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

10 hours ago, Padge said:

I think you may have nailed it, before Hilton Park was built the area it was built on was Church Fields, open land, between that and Parsonage Colliery were allotments.

Looking at the old Ordnance Survey map of Leigh (oddly enough the OS English maps are online on the National Library for Scotland site) and a picture of Hilton Park in Mike Latham's  'A Groundhopper's Guide' I reckon that that's right - even the orientation of the two pitheads agree with the map. Given the derelict state of the allotments makes me wonder if it was taken just before they started to build Hilton Park (about 1945/6) with the plot holders having been recently evicted.

[Padge]

3 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Looking at the old Ordnance Survey map of Leigh (oddly enough the OS English maps are online on the National Library for Scotland site) and a picture of Hilton Park in Mike Latham's  'A Groundhopper's Guide' I reckon that that's right - even the orientation of the two pitheads agree with the map. Given the derelict state of the allotments makes me wonder if it was taken just before they started to build Hilton Park (about 1945/6) with the plot holders having been recently evicted.

That's more or less how I worked it out.

[Lowdesert]

This thread is the only one really.  No BS and some great stories and pictures.

[Leyther_Matt]

5 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Looking at the old Ordnance Survey map of Leigh (oddly enough the OS English maps are online on the National Library for Scotland site) and a picture of Hilton Park in Mike Latham's  'A Groundhopper's Guide' I reckon that that's right - even the orientation of the two pitheads agree with the map. Given the derelict state of the allotments makes me wonder if it was taken just before they started to build Hilton Park (about 1945/6) with the plot holders having been recently evicted.

The allotments may well have remained even after the ground was built as the land adjacent was council land which would later become Leigh East ARLFC’s original ground. 

[Padge]

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

The allotments may well have remained even after the ground was built as the land adjacent was council land which would later become Leigh East ARLFC’s original ground. 

These are pre and post Hilton Park area maps.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Padge

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

These are pre and post Hilton Park area maps.

 

Thanks for that, appreciated. I grew up about half an inch to the top right of the picture if you expanded it far enough. Mad how I can feel myself transported there purely by seeing the wall the external wall on the corner of the Chadwick St End mirrored the houses in Glebe Street. 

I actually walked past the site yesterday as my dad still lives in the same house and the houses are springing up on there at long last. 

[Padge]

19 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Thanks for that, appreciated. I grew up about half an inch to the top right of the picture if you expanded it far enough. Mad how I can feel myself transported there purely by seeing the wall the external wall on the corner of the Chadwick St End mirrored the houses in Glebe Street. 

I actually walked past the site yesterday as my dad still lives in the same house and the houses are springing up on there at long last. 

Circa 1969

Edited June 17, 2020 by Padge

[Leyther_Matt]

42 minutes ago, Padge said:

Circa 1969

...make that three quarters of an inch in that case

Lived near enough to see the floodlights from my bedroom window. Especially helpful for knowing whether midweek football games had been called off. And getting a free viewing of the annual firework display on Bonfire Night

[Ullman]

On 17/05/2020 at 13:52, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Thanks for sharing that information, No 16.

Re-birthplaces, perhaps Hull had a good scout at the northern end of the West Country, or maybe Messrs Cottrell, Herridge and Holder had attended the test match against New Zealand in Cheltenham, and been inspired.

I was intrigued by the size and weight statistics.  Imagine a modern team turning up with nobody taller than 5' 10" and only one player on the field making 6'!

 

On 17/05/2020 at 15:42, Number 16 said:

Was the Hartlepool link the docks and dock workers? 

The age stats are surprising also. Both teams have a youngish average. 

I think that's a fair assumption. Hull's fishing industry and commercial docks expanded so rapidly at the end of the 19th century that the city's population increased from just over 30,000 to just under 300,000 in the space of eighty years. At the time, the vast majority of the people working in the fishing industry were migrants from other British coastal towns. Given the population growth the same would almost certainly be true of the commercial docks. The majority of the population at one time would have been born outside the city.

[Number 16]

50 minutes ago, Ullman said:

 

I think that's a fair assumption. Hull's fishing industry and commercial docks expanded so rapidly at the end of the 19th century that the city's population increased from just over 30,000 to just under 300,000 in the space of eighty years. At the time, the vast majority of the people working in the fishing industry were migrants from other British coastal towns. Given the population growth the same would almost certainly be true of the commercial docks. The majority of the population at one time would have been born outside the city.

Yes, searching the players on findmypast they were in trades associated with the docks.

[Futtocks]

On 17/05/2020 at 13:52, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I was intrigued by the size and weight statistics.  Imagine a modern team turning up with nobody taller than 5' 10" and only one player on the field making 6'!

Looking at the squad "pen pictures" for the first French side to tour Down Under, Elie Brousse was called the Catalan Giant. His stats are 15 stone 4 pounds, 6'1". He was, along with Michael Lopez, the tallest of the 27 players. Lopez was the heaviest at 16 stone.

That the biggest players are bigger these days is not particularly surprising, but the margin is. I'm not sure what they would have thought of Lesley Vainikolo being a winger!

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

As ever, good points, Futtocks.  On that French tour Down Under, the visitors seemed to put their faith in an absolutely miniscule full back - 5' 3" and 11 stone.  I wonder what became of him; I expect he faded into obscurity.  I think he wad called Puig-Aubert, or something like that.

[Futtocks]

38 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

As ever, good points, Futtocks.  On that French tour Down Under, the visitors seemed to put their faith in an absolutely miniscule full back - 5' 3" and 11 stone.  I wonder what became of him; I expect he faded into obscurity.  I think he wad called Puig-Aubert, or something like that.

Imagine him coming up against a hulking great brute like Rob Burrow...

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

On 17/06/2020 at 22:51, Leyther_Matt said:

...make that three quarters of an inch in that case

Lived near enough to see the floodlights from my bedroom window. Especially helpful for knowing whether midweek football games had been called off. And getting a free viewing of the annual firework display on Bonfire Night

This brings back memories of the game when us supporters arrived in a very large double decker coach (the one we were supposed to have had broken down) with the driver very slowly and nervously going down the middle of narrow Glebe Street with cars parked on both sides while we watched all the net curtains twitching. We used to drink in Leigh East's clubhouse before Leigh built their own  - a very welcoming place.

[Ullman]

19 hours ago, Padge said:

TRL research department nails it again.

Everything on there is in the right place to marry up with the first photo and the maps. 

Yeah, well done folks. 

Good work

[Futtocks]

 

[Futtocks]

GB v Rest of the World 1988.

1.Fullback - Paul Loughlin & Dale Shearer
2.Wing - David Plange & Arnold Krewanty
3.Centre - Garry Schofield & Bal Numapo
4.Centre - David Stephenson & Michael O'Connor
5.Wing - Martin Offiah & Hugues Ratier
6.Stand-off - Shaun Edwards & Steve Ella
7.Scrum Half - Andy Gregory & Allan Langer
8.Prop - Kevin Ward & Kurt Sorensen
9.Hooker - Kevin Beardmore & Thierry Valero
10.Prop - Hugh Waddell & Sam Backo
11.Second Row - Mike Gregory & Mark Graham (c)
12.Second Row - Andy Platt & Noel Cleal
13.Loose Forward - Ellery Hanley (c) & Gavin Miller
14.Substitute - Paul Hulme & Cliff Lyons
15.Substitute - Roy Powell & Peter Brown

[Gooleboy]

12 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

GB v Rest of the World 1988.

1.Fullback - Paul Loughlin & Dale Shearer
2.Wing - David Plange & Arnold Krewanty
3.Centre - Garry Schofield & Bal Numapo
4.Centre - David Stephenson & Michael O'Connor
5.Wing - Martin Offiah & Hugues Ratier
6.Stand-off - Shaun Edwards & Steve Ella
7.Scrum Half - Andy Gregory & Allan Langer
8.Prop - Kevin Ward & Kurt Sorensen
9.Hooker - Kevin Beardmore & Thierry Valero
10.Prop - Hugh Waddell & Sam Backo
11.Second Row - Mike Gregory & Mark Graham (c)
12.Second Row - Andy Platt & Noel Cleal
13.Loose Forward - Ellery Hanley (c) & Gavin Miller
14.Substitute - Paul Hulme & Cliff Lyons
15.Substitute - Roy Powell & Peter Brown

Sam Backo, what a flop when he signed for Leeds.

[Futtocks]

7 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Sam Backo, what a flop when he signed for Leeds.

Plenty of good players became a lot less good after signing for Leeds, back in the days when they couldn't buy a trophy. Bradley Clyde and Brett Mullins, for example, were underwhelming compared to their exploits Down Under.

[Futtocks]

From the commentary.

Ray French, referring to Alfie Langer's lack of impact in the first half: "A scrum half can't play without the ball."

Alex Murphy: "Well some can't, mate" 

[Futtocks]

The Beer City Brawl.

 

[Futtocks]