RFL and N W C u7s Playing Formats

[Guest]

Has everything been sorted between NWC and RFL over the playing formats for the u7s,

[TaxiEgg]

Not yet there is a PRL group meeting on the 10th of November where the Nw compromise of playing up to 7 a side will be debated and hopefully accepted .

[Guest]

What about the Cumbria teams, apparently they haven't been playing the new format neither, it was in league express a few weeks ago,    

[shawy13]

In Barrow my team have played anything from 4v4 to 9v9 depending on what numbers teams have and what the coaches decide. If a coach is adamant they want to play 4/5 a side we have to go with it but generally people prefer larger sided games.

[Guest]

In Barrow my team have played anything from 4v4 to 9v9 depending on what numbers teams have and what the coaches decide. If a coach is adamant they want to play 4/5 a side we have to go with it but generally people prefer larger sided games.

But according to RFL all the Cumbrian teams are playing 4 V 4 and 5 V 5 and support the RFL new format, if this is the case should the PRL group meeting not be informed that the NWC are not the only league not playing the format, think someone has been telling a few porky pies and the PRL committee are having the wool pulled over their eyes,

[Guest]

Have the RFL been given money from sport england to fund the new playing format??? because they are determined to get the youngsters playing the new format, every club with the age groups affected should have been contacted by someone independent from the RFL and asked the following.

 

what format has been playing in the 2015 season,

 

have you had support from the RFL this season whilst playing the new primary format if playing 4 v 4,

 

have you been contacted through the season for an evaluation on how the players and coach's were adapting to the new 4 v 4 format,

 

has there been a end of season evaluation by the RFL (each teams coach should give the evaluation)

 

all data should have then been collected and collated before been distributed back to the community board, PRL committee along with the leagues and the clubs, 

[TaxiEgg]

We are the only region to feedback our findings into the PRL group all the other areas initially backed the new format .

Our request for our findings and proposals to be taken back to the other regions did not happen .

A 50 page paper from Leeds Met was made available by Ralph Rimmer which none of the PRL group had seen which in my and many others opinions brought into questions the reasons for the proposed changes .

All regions have now been asked to submit their thoughts on the formats ready for the meeting on the 10th Nov .

We the Nw will again meet all our clubs on Tues 3rd November to gather their thoughts on the 2015 season .

Hopefully the PRL group will accept our proposal moving forward .

[Guest]

Just spoke to a Cumbrian teams coach and he said as far as he is aware no one has asked them for any feedback, who has asked for the feedback,  rfl, community board or PRL committee, he also said that at the last cumbrian youth meeting they were told that all the Barrow teams are playing the new format, but this was said by a RFL employee who is on the league committee, it looks like the rfl have got spy's in all the leagues camps, shawy13, have the barrow teams been asked for feedback???

[Guest]

In Barrow my team have played anything from 4v4 to 9v9 depending on what numbers teams have and what the coaches decide. If a coach is adamant they want to play 4/5 a side we have to go with it but generally people prefer larger sided games.

shawy13, have the Barrow clubs been asked for their feedback on the teams playing the new rfl 4 v 4 format ??

[TaxiEgg]

From: David Butler
Date: 14 October 2015 10:14:32 BST

Subject: Primary Rugby League Management Group
Hi Everyone,

Following the Community Board meeting this week, it has been decided to further delay the Primary Rugby League Management Group meeting until November to allow the seasons to complete and use this meeting to undertake a review of the season as well as pick up other relevant business. Peter Moran, an independent member of the Community Board, will be joining us to Chair the session and I am suggesting that we aim for either Tuesday 10th or Wednesday 11th November. Please let me know if you have a preference and we will aim to confirm next week.

I would be grateful if each league could provide a review of their Under 7s activity for the season and submit these by Tuesday 3rd November. If you can aim to keep these to a maximum of 2 pages per league and I will ask your Club & Competition Manager to support as required and with any data requests. Please do include any observations / recommendations to be taken into consideration for the 2016 season and the production of the Handbook, which I hope we can agree and move forward with on the night.

I think it would be useful if Yorkshire Juniors and the Cumbria Leagues can provide any information on the clubs that have been playing the new Under 8s format this year for consideration.

Should a further session on this be required, can I ask you to tentatively put Tuesday 1st December into the diaries and we can decide on the evening if we require this or not.

I will be in touch next week to confirm the precise day and venue for the meeting.

All the best,

David

[TaxiEgg]

This is a puzzling affair we seem to have East / West divide .

East of the Pennines believe that the mini and modified game program should be scrapped and replace with a more reduced playing format and the West of the Pennines have faith in the program and want to continue with a little tweaking .

What puzzles me is how come we play the same game yet the opinions are so opposite, we are all volunteers and seem to operate as community clubs the same .

We in the NW have debated this openly, long and hard and still remain opposed to watering the game down as not one club or volunteer favours the new format over the tried and tested program .

Yet East of the Pennines they apparently think the opposite .

I know the views of the NW but would love to hear the views of clubs from East of the Pennines as I am really at odds to understand the difference of opinions ?

[gillmeister]

A letter has been sent to David Butler this morning on behalf of Egremont, Seaton and Wath Brow stating the three clubs combined issues/objections to playing 4 v 4 and 5 v 5 formats

[Guest]

The rfl hit men will be out to get you now then, how dare you go against them,

[Guest]

TaxiEgg, how many of the clubs actually receive the minutes from the PRL meetings, it looks like only info the rfl want to get through to the clubs is being received,

[TaxiEgg]

I will post them once they have been approved after tonights meeting .

[TaxiEgg]

Primary Rugby League Management Group Meeting Minutes

Location

Holiday Inn Brighouse (Saville Suite), Clifton Village,

Brighouse, HD6 4HW

Date & Time

12 May 2015

18:30pm to 20:30pm

Attendees

Apologies

Mick Doyle

NWC 8s to 12s

Graham Aitken

NWC 8s to 12s

Carol Bailey

Hull & District Youth League

Charlie Bray

Yorkshire Junior League

Emma King

Yorkshire Junior League

Alan Davidson

West Cumbria, Barrow & District Primary, Youth & Junior League

Kelly Barrett

RFL

David Butler

RFL

Michael Amos

RFL

Vicky Turner

RFL

Natalie Flint

RFL

Martin Coyd OBE

London Youth, Junior & Primary League

Janice Thompson

Hull & District League

Chair Person

David Butler

Item No Agenda Item Actions

1.0

Welcome & Apologies

Mr Butler welcomed everyone to the meeting and apologies were received from Janice Thompson and Martin Coyd OBE.

In addition, Mr Butler reported that David Gent had left the RFL and as such, gave a brief overview of the Community Department structure going forward, which included both his and Dan Parkinson’s roles. Therefore, Mr Butler advised that the ‘’Who’s Who’’ document would be updated and distributed in due course.

Mr Aitken expressed his disappointment that Mr Gent’s departure was not communicated throughout the Community Game. As such, Mr Butler noted the comments and advised that Ralph Rimmer circulated an email to the Community Board however, it was Mr Gent’s wish for his departure to be kept low key.

In addition, Mr Aitken noted that the Community Board minutes from February are still not on the RFL website. Ms Flint agreed to look into this.

NF

NF

2.0

Minutes of the meeting held on 13 January 2015

Mr Butler gave a brief overview of Mr Doyle’s comments on the previous minutes, which all representatives agreed. For clarification, Mr Butler noted the comment on fly kicking had been actioned and appears in the 2015 Rule Book.

In addition, Mr Butler noted the comments from Mr Doyle regarding the lack of feedback on the pilot received outside of the meeting. Mr Butler clarified that feedback was given to NWC at the Primary RL Management Group meeting by the other leagues and the RFL.

Finally, it was noted that NWC were disappointed that a meeting was not arranged within 7 days, as agreed. Mr Butler and Mr Davidson responded that they were not aware that a timescale was discussed. However, they were happy to report that a meeting took place with regards to the Under 7s format, it is in fact 4v4 with a maximum of 5v5 permissible.

Finally, Mr Doyle noted the timescale in which the minutes of each meeting take to be circulated and also the content of the minutes. Mr Butler advised that unfortunately, the minutes have taken time previously however, a process has been put in place to progress this going forward. In addition, Mr Butler noted that the content of the minutes are drafted to record the most relevant form of conversation.

With the additions noted above, both Ms King and Mr Davidson confirmed that the minutes were a correct record and these will be redistributed with the changes.

NF

3.0

3.1

Matters Arising

Coach Identification Register/Cards

Ms Barrett reported that an internal discussion had taken place regarding the issue of Level 1 Coach identification registers/cards. As such, a meeting is taking place at a forthcoming On-Field Management Meeting, Thursday 14 May, where a proposal to provide an identification card for Level 1 Coaches is being tabled.

As such, Ms Barrett introduced Vicky Turner, Registrations Manager to the Group.

Mr Bray noted that the new Level 2 Award (Primary Rugby League) has just been introduced through Rugby League Learning (RLL) and as such, an expiry date and ‘’road map’’ is still required, with the addition of Coaches given the time to take the new award on board. Mr Amos advised that an FAQs on coaching has been circulated internally and will be distributed in due course, once approval has been given, and will pursue the road map idea.

Mr Doyle asked for clarification on whether a Level 1 Coach can coach on their own. Ms Turner confirmed that a Level 1 Coach can coach with the supervision of a Level 2 Coach, as per the licensing guidelines. Further, Ms Barrett advised that it is expected that all lead coaches will be qualified to Level 2 Award (Primary Rugby League) standard for the next playing season.

Ms Bailey asked if Level 1 Coaches are required to sign the Coaching Conduct. Ms Turner advised that this is not the case currently.

Mr Aitken asked how many Level 1 courses in one particular year each League can obtain. Ms Barrett was unsure of the level of availability however, she advised that she would ask the question internally, with RLL.

Mr Aitken asked how he could obtain a list of the DBS verifiers for child

MA

KB

KB

3.2

3.3

welfare. Ms Barrett advised that this information is online however, she would send the link to the correct page of the website. The link is detailed below;

http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/child_welfare

Progress on Transfers in Primary Rugby League

Ms Barrett reported on the work that had taken place internally and with other governing bodies on how they monitor player movement, if indeed they do, within their respective sports. Further, Ms Barrett advised that a report is being compiled for discussion with the Leagues and Transfer secretaries. This piece of work falls in line with changes to the Tiers Four to Six Operational Rules and the consultation process which runs from July to September each year.

Insurance Documentation

Ms Barrett advised that each club that required their insurance documentation have now been sent all relevant information.

On a separate matter, Mr Aitken asked for clarification on the Mancunian 9s situation that had been discussed previously. Mr Butler advised that this discussion had taken place with Mr Doyle, Mr Gent and Mr Amos.

KB

4.0

Sky Try Update

Ms Lee gave a presentation update on the Sky Try initiative and the work that has taken place since the last time it was tabled in this forum (presentation attached for reference), in January 2015, with the most salient points being as follows;

- Year 1 delivery partners being all SL clubs plus, London Broncos and Bradford Bulls;

- All clubs that are ‘’at risk’’ will need to reapply for funding in July 2015;

- Year 1 funding is focussing on governance;

- Sky target to reach 700,000 new participants (100k per year);

- Workshops taking place on how each of the Foundations and Community clubs can work together to increase the participant levels within their respective areas;

- Training dates for Foundation staff on 27/29 May 2015;

Mr Aitken asked if any of the Championship clubs are obtaining funding in conjunction with the Super League club in close proximity. Ms Lee advised that each club must apply in their own entity as per the governance guidelines.

Mr Doyle asked how the clubs are tracked with their participants from year to year. Ms Lee advised that the Upshot data is tracked through the age and date of birth data to monitor each participant through each age group.

Ms Bailey reported that the workshops are working well in Hull with the professional clubs corresponding with the Community clubs.

Mr Amos asked for feedback on how the training of community coaches is facilitated and enforcing parents to be involved. Ms Bailey advised that parents have asked in Hull and are waiting for the opportunity to attend a course. Mr Amos took on board Ms Bailey’s comments and agreed to look into this further.

MA

Ms Lee gave a brief overview of the Upshot website and the various information that the club Foundations have to upload as their delivery objectives and the performance indicators noted against their outcomes.

Within this tool, live time reports can be set up which details numbers of festivals, working groups etc. are facilitated through the Foundations. As such, Ms Lee advised that these reports could be circulated at each meeting, if required.

Mr Aitken asked if negative feedback is received and reported, i.e. if a club doesn’t receive any interest from a local school. Ms Lee confirmed that feedback is received, whether positive or not, and can be recorded on Upshot.

In addition, Mr Aitken asked what resources schools are given. Mr Amos advised that resources such as balls, ball bags and teacher training sessions are given.

Mr Doyle asked where each child is signposted and whether availability is only available in their geographical areas. Ms Lee reported that further discussion is taken place with each Foundation to establish what is required to assist with growing their geographical spread and available resources for children in their respective areas. In addition, the discussions with each club also focus on the areas that require growth.

Mr Aitken noted the proposed increase in coaches that the aspired 700k participants will require and whether financial resources had been considered. Ms Lee noted that this is an important piece of work that is to take place over the course of the next year to establish what resource is required and how best to signpost this.

Ms Lee reported that the Foundations have been asked which community clubs are in their areas and which ones are prioritised. Further, each Foundation will receive further funding that will deliver on their delivery objectives.

In summary, Mr Butler asked the Group to feedback to Ms Lee on what is taking place in their respective areas and send any ideas that they wish to be corresponded with the Foundation partners.

JL/MA

ALL

5.0

Age Bands in Primary Rugby League

Mr Butler gave an introduction to Ms Barrett who opened up a discussion on whether a review in age bands needs to be undertaken, whether players should be restricted to their true age group only and what data and insight who need to be gathered to move forward.

In addition, to assist with the discussion, Ms Barrett noted that there are 59 6 year olds that are playing at Under 8s.

Mr Bray noted that the only difficulty he finds within Yorkshire Juniors is Year 1s who are prevented from playing with players in their same age group at school until they have achieved their 6th birthday. Ms Bailey advised that this was an opinion also held in Hull.

Further, Mr Aitken asked for clarification on what a child can play if they are yet to reach their 6th birthday. Ms Barrett confirmed that, as per the

Operational Rules and the RFL insurance policy, a child couldn’t play contact sport until they have reached their 6th birthday.

Consequently, a discussion took place on children playing in Under 7’s and 8’s and as such, until a child reaches the age of 6, they are still a ‘’Cub player’’. In addition, Mr Davidson suggested a solution being instead of using age bands, using the school academic years for transparency.

Ms Barrett requested that each league confirm what system they use and correspond with Ms Turner. Ms Barrett would take this debate to the On-Field Management Group for further consultation.

KB/VT

6.0

New Format & Games Coach and Parents Workshops for Under 7s Format in 2015

Mr Amos gave a presentation update on the recent workshops that had taken place within the period (presentation attached for reference), with the most salient points being as follows;

- Mr Bray requested that, where teams cannot agree on whether the games should be contact or not, then Touch or Tag should be played and a Rule should be clarified to adopt this;

- Clarification on a Games Coach role was given and their five simple instructions noted;

- Coaching packs including lesson plans, Rules, DVD’s and balls were given.

In summary, Mr Amos asked for feedback whether further Workshops are required, both for Coaches and parents. Ms Bailey, Ms King and Mr Davidson requested Workshops to which Mr Amos agreed to contact them direct and arrange in the near future.

MA

7.0

Define Content and Timelines for 2016 Primary RL Handbook

This agenda item was deferred to the next meeting however, as the next meeting is currently scheduled for October, it was suggested that a further meeting should be arranged for 14th July 2015.

NF

8.0

8.1

8.2

8.3

Any Other Business

Under 6’s – Graham Aitken

In addition to the discussion this evening, Mr Aitken asked for an Agenda item at the next meeting to discuss Under 6’s.

Under 11’s – Carol Bailey

Ms Bailey asked for clarification on equal numbers at the age of 11. Mr Amos agreed to discuss this further internally and consult with Ms Bailey direct prior to the next meeting.

Rule Book Amendments – Charlie Bray

Mr Bray asked if amendments to the Rule Book could be corresponded in addition to the meetings that will help with the turnaround and print deadlines in September. In addition, Mr Doyle added that there are too many changes within the Rules to allow the turnaround and correct version of the Rule Book. As such, Mr Doyle suggested a form of Rules should be adopted that are relevant to each geographical area. Mr Butler pointed out that the purpose of the Primary Rugby League Management Group was to ensure that a consistent set of Rules were played throughout the country, which Mr Bray agreed with. Mr Amos circulated some notes on the Rule Book and asked that feedback be sent to him prior to the next meeting.

ALL

As there was no further business the meeting concluded at 21:00pm.

9.0

Dates of 2015 Meetings:

Tuesday 14 July 2015 – venue to be confirmed.

Tuesday 13 October 2015

[Guest]

Thanks TaxiEgg

[Defender1]

There was a Primary meeting last night would be interested to hear the outcome, social media portrays the only people following the Primary rules to how it should be are NOBODY!! I think even this has been admitted by the RFL, common sense to prevail??  

[Guest]

Don't think the rfl understand the words common sense to prevail,

[TaxiEgg]

Plenty of progress was made on Tuesday night .

And to be be fair this is mainly down to Ralph RImmer who has taken time out to come and listen to the grass roots And find our first hand what the concerns are .

A new independant chair has been appointed in Peter Moran and if his first meeting is any thing to go by he will hold people accountable and there will be no hiding places .

Positive times ahead .

[Guest]

That's fantastic news, well done to everyone who has made this possible, especially Peter Moran and Ralph Rimmer,  

[TaxiEgg]

We the Nwc are still poles apart with Hull and district and Yorkshire juniors on the playing numbers we have proposed a compromise which caters for both views .

We believe a one fit suits all approach removes flexibility .

We have engaged throughout the process with our clubs coaches and parents and take to the table the views of the clubs not our own .

The leeds met paper poses more questions than answers and the changes proposed are based on a one sided summary .

We believe each region should have the flexibility within the PRL rules to foster and develop the game to each other's needs .

With the ultimate aim to upskill every kid in a child friendly environment .

We all want to rhe same end product but have different views on how we reach it .

[TheMancunianCandidate]

On a separate matter, Mr Aitken asked for clarification on the Mancunian 9s situation that had been discussed previously. Mr Butler advised that this discussion had taken place with Mr Doyle, Mr Gent and Mr Amos.

Hello. Can I ask what this was about?

[TaxiEgg]

It should read Mancunians 5s , it was in relation to the ill fated attempt to circumvent protocol within the PRL group and by pass the Nwc juniors .

No one at the RFL wanted to take ownership of the event although it was promoted on the RFL website at the time .

Don't think the event got off the ground well nobody wanted at the time to talk about it .

[Guest]

TaxiEgg, quick question, is it true that Cumbria/Barrow and Yorkshire Youth have got paid rfl  employees running their leagues,