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To build a bridge from scratch takes time. Boreholes have to be done to check the ground conditions. Services will have to be checked and possibly new services installed to re-route them out of the way. The design and check itself will take a couple of months. The tender period is 6 weeks minimum. Piling may need to be installed. The list goes on. A year is a reasonable estimate unfortunately.

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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Are Scotland's waterways not under the control of the Environment Agency; ie a Government agency?

 

No. Strange then  how so many are silent about the Scottish Govts dire failure to protect so many areas against flooding. You'd have thought a fair and balanced forum response would be to be just as apoplectic about that as it is about the English situation. If so, you thought wrong.

 

You can see the Scottish flood mapping here: http://map.sepa.org.uk/floodmap/map.htm

“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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No. Strange then  how so many are silent about the Scottish Govts dire failure to protect so many areas against flooding. You'd have thought a fair and balanced forum response would be to be just as apoplectic about that as it is about the English situation. If so, you thought wrong.

 

You can see the Scottish flood mapping here: http://map.sepa.org.uk/floodmap/map.htm

How many forum members live in Scotland and therefore directly impacted by the Scottish flooding?

 

How have the Scottish government reacted to previous flooding?

 

How much funding has been promised by the Scottish government and then subsequently been cut?

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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What I cant understand is why it takes over a year to rebuild a Bridge as Calderdale Council has stated. First of all, why cant they build one sooner and secondly how come the British Army have some of the best engineers in the world and be involved in getting a Bridge built ASAP? It seems that in the UK, it takes way longer than necessary to get things going. Is this due to politics or the attitude of certain People? The attitude of many politicians across the parties sticks. If the funds are there then get them ASAP and get important things like bridges, repairs to Schools and Health facilities damaged in floods, repaired ASAP. I fail to see what the Problem is.

A year is pretty quick for a new bridge. Its not as simple a just rebuilding like for like, any new bridge (or rebuild) has to conform to all the current design standards and comply with all current ligislation such as CDM (Construction, Design & Management regulations). The new bridge will have to be designed to resist future flood events, if its on a navigable channel it has to be designed to resist a strike from a boat, if it carries traffic is has to be able to carry current traffic loads and the parapet able to resist a vehicle strike. It has to be designed so that it can be built, maintained and dismantled while not putting anyone in undue risk of injury. 

There's a long list of items that must be considered when building a new bridge, most of them legal requirements. Were not like places like China or India who can throw up a new bridge in months but dont really care if a few dozen workmen die while building it or if it collapses later killing a few dozen more. Generally when we build something like a bridge we build it right and people should be thankful that we do it this way and not just moan about it taking a year.

St.Helens - The Home of Rugby Champions

Saints Men's team - Triple Champions & Double Winners ; Saints Women's team - Treble Winners ; Thatto Heath - National Conference Champions

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Ambulance-chasing solicitor on local news this morning, drumming up business to try and prosecute the authoriiies for negligence during the recent floods.

 

He's obviously got a sincere and deep interest in the unfortunate recent events, that's why he called it the Environmental Agency rather than the Environment Agency.

:dry:

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Ambulance-chasing solicitor on local news this morning, drumming up business to try and prosecute the authoriiies for negligence during the recent floods.

 

He's obviously got a sincere and deep interest in the unfortunate recent events, that's why he called it the Environmental Agency rather than the Environment Agency.

:dry:

Maybee he woz putting the emfasis on mental.

rldfsignature.jpg

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We'll be due a hose pipe ban next.

I saw a contingency assessment for the south of England that showed sizeable flooding in the wrong places, west London near Heathrow specifically, could contaminate so much of the water for London that water conservation measures may become essential.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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I appreciate what you haver said about depth of water for vessels to gain passgae to a given river / canal etc etc , however have you ever tried to pour 10 gallons of water down a 6 inch diameter pipe and then tried again with another 6 gallons into a 12 inch dia pipe ... Its a guarantee that the 6 inch dia pipe ( ie undreged ) will not cpoe with the sudden onrush of the water, whereas the 12 inch dia will cope infinately better ........nothing to do with a ships or boats a simple matter of physics . . . as the old saying goes you cant get a pint in a half pint pot ..and its still true today ;) . . .

You make a good point but with a false analogy.

Much more accurate would be pouring water down a six inch pipe compared to a six and quarter inch pipe. You wouldn't see the difference.

The environment agency produce a very good PowerPoint presentation with detailed diagrams showing the actual volume increase given by dredging which I can't post from a phone. Seek it out if you are not convinced.

Edited by John Rhino
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Did I hear correctly last night that certain parts of north east Scotland had already broken their January rainfall record after day 5 of the month?                                                             

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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2016/jan/07/liz-truss-is-choosing-to-protect-farmers-over-flood-victims

 

She capped this madness by announcing that the government “will be protecting an additional million acres” of farmland from flooding by 2021. I repeat: when extreme rainfall strikes, you can’t protect both farmland and homes; a choice has to be made. And the secretary of state for the environment has chosen to use public money to make the flooding of the built environment more likely.

 

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Tories put money before people shocker.

 

Indeed, and it's their money and the money of one of their keenest and longest standing constituencies. Just as it's often said that the Church of England is the Tory Party at prayer, the National Farmers Union is the Tory Party is green wellies and Barbours.

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There is no single answer to improve our resilience to flooding. Dredging, tree planting, improved defences, all have a role to play.

 

The new Natural Capital Committee led by Dieter Helm will, as part of its remit, look at catchment management and upstream solutions to flooding, learning from innovative programmes like Slowing the Flow in Pickering, which works with nature to reduce risk.

 

Obviously it's not as controversial as "The Tories are going to flood your homes", but then what's to be expected from the Guardian. It's good she uses Pickering as an example, a town that suffered continual floods while Labour put money before people.

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It seems they are also looking at other options as well:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35246752

 

Neither in my opinion are the right way ahead as giving more money to farmers to flood land is just putting more money into the large landowners pockets who are burning, dredging, canalising the land and rivers already contributing to the issue. There needs to be a huge change in land management practices in the uplands, not just giving money to farmers or the other option being proposed by Truss.

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Here's the answer

Three Ha'Pence a Foot

I'll tell you an old-fashioned story That grandfather used to relate,

Of a builder and joining contractor Who's name it were Sam Oswaldthwaite.

In a shop on the banks of the Irwell There Sam used to follow his trade,

In a place you'll have heard of called Bury You know, where black puddings is made.

One day Sam were filling a knot hole With putty when in through the door,

Came an old man fair reeked i'whiskers An th'old man said good morning I'm Noah.

Sam asked Noah what were his business And t'old chap went on to remark,

That not liking the look of the weather He was thinking of building an ark. He'd got all the wood for the bulwarks And all t'other shipbuilding junk,

Now he wanted some nice birds-eye maple To panel the sides of his bunk.

Now maple were Sams monopoly That means it were all his to cut,

And nobody else hadn't got none So he asked Noah three ha'pence a foot.

A ha'penny too much replied Noah Penny a foots more the mark,

A penny a foot and when rain comes I'll give you a ride in my ark.

But neither would budge in the bargain The whole thing were kind of a jam,

So Sam put his tongue out at Noah And Noah made long bacon at Sam.

In wrath and ill-feeling they parted Not knowing when they'd meet again,

And Sam 'ad forgot all about it 'Til one day it started to rain.

It rained and it rained for a fortnight It flooded the whole countryside,

It rained and it still kept on raining 'Til th'Irwell were fifty miles wide.

The houses were soon under water And folks to the roof had to climb,

They said t'was the rottenest summer As Bury had had for some time.

The rain showed no sign of abating And water rose hour by hour,

'Til th'only dry land were at Blackpool and that were on top of the tower.

So Sam started swimming for Blackpool It took him best part of a week,

His clothes were wet through when he got there And his boots were beginning to leak.

He stood to his watch-chain in water On tower-top just before dark,

When who should come sailing towards him But old Noah steering his ark.

They stared at each other in silence 'Til ark were alongside all but,

Then Noah said what price yon maple Sam answered three ha'pence a foot.

Noah said nay I'll make thee an offer Same as I did t'other day,

A penny a foot and a free ride Now come on lad what do thee say.

Three ha'pence a foot came the answer So Noah his sail had to hoist,

And sail off again in a dudgeon While Sam stood determined but moist.

So Noah cruised around flying his pigeons 'Til fortieth day of the wet,

And on his way home passing Blackpool He saw old Sam standing there yet.

His chin just stuck out of the water A comical figure he cut,

Noah said now whats the price of yon maple And Sam answered three ha'pence a foot.

Said Noah you'd best take my offer It's the last time I'll be hereabouts,

And if water comes half an inch higher I'll happen get maple for nowt.

Three ha'pence a foot it'll cost you And as for me Sam says don't fret,

'Skys took a turn since this morning I think it'll brighten up yet.

Edgar Marriot

Edited by Bearman

Ron Banks

Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow

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Wireform which is, I think the last manufacturing business in Hebden Bridge has announced it won't be reopening and its 45 employees are now jobless.

A guy I work with who lives in Hebden reckons 25 to 33% of the high st shops won't be reopening.

Could turn into a bit of a ghost town

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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Wireform which is, I think the last manufacturing business in Hebden Bridge has announced it won't be reopening and its 45 employees are now jobless.

That's a real shame. 

 

 

A guy I work with who lives in Hebden reckons 25 to 33% of the high st shops won't be reopening.

Could turn into a bit of a ghost town

That might not be the case either.  Shops and other businesses are receiving financial assistance to get them back on their feet so let's hope they will be able to reopen once the clear up has completed.

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Wireform which is, I think the last manufacturing business in Hebden Bridge has announced it won't be reopening and its 45 employees are now jobless.

A guy I work with who lives in Hebden reckons 25 to 33% of the high st shops won't be reopening.

Could turn into a bit of a ghost town

Sad to hear. I wonder what their customers will do now? Presumably they had/still have orders to fulfill? hope they set up somewhere else...towns would welcome them withopen arms.

“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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Some current shop owners will lose out others will gain in the high streets.

My sister had a shop on the main street in Cockermouth at the time of the 2009 flood. Needless to say the shop was very badly damaged by the water. By the landlord was able to get the building back into operating order other shops had already opened, had been trading for months and taken part of her market. She decided not to re-open.

Some shop owners will be in the hands of their landlords, insurance companies, etc.

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It seems they are also looking at other options as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35246752

Neither in my opinion are the right way ahead as giving more money to farmers to flood land is just putting more money into the large landowners pockets who are burning, dredging, canalising the land and rivers already contributing to the issue. There needs to be a huge change in land management practices in the uplands, not just giving money to farmers or the other option being proposed by Truss.

The money is going to be have to spent somewhere, and if it's easier and cheaper to give it to farmers to flood their land then moral grandstanding is idiotic. Plus not all farmers are the cause of the problems, but they're dead easy to blame.

It's not just in the uplands, my town is an old mill town in a valley. The river runs through the bottom of it. There's little farming on the moors but years of businesses diverting the river through culverts and the diverting of it under roads and property means a Google map of it shows the majority is hidden from view. The culverts become blocked with all sorts of debris and the water looks for any way out. Over 100 meters of culvert has recently been removed from the river which experts say will reduce flooding, will vastly reduce the maintenance costs and bring back lost wildlife.

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