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Arriva Trains wins Northern Franchise


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Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "Arriva Rail North Limited and First Trans Pennine Express Limited went far beyond our requirements with exciting, ambitious plans that will make a real difference to customers, and – coupled with our commitment to push ahead with electrifying the vital Transpennine route – will help the region realise its full economic potential, ensuring it has a modern 21st century transport system."

 

I don't use the trains very often, so what do other members think of the change? Has Arriva outbid Northern Rail to buy the franchise  or has the franchise merely been awarded to it by the Government?

 

What I do know is that there are never enough carriages on the morning trains across the Pennines. The cariages on trains to Leeds are heaving to overspill by the time they reach Bradford.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "Arriva Rail North Limited and First Trans Pennine Express Limited went far beyond our requirements with exciting, ambitious plans that will make a real difference to customers, and – coupled with our commitment to push ahead with electrifying the vital Transpennine route – will help the region realise its full economic potential, ensuring it has a modern 21st century transport system."

 

I don't use the trains very often, so what do other members think of the change? Has Arriva outbid Northern Rail to buy the franchise  or has the franchise merely been awarded to it by the Government?

 

What I do know is that there are never enough carriages on the morning trains across the Pennines. The cariages on trains to Leeds are heaving to overspill by the time they reach Bradford.

 

I know from bitter experience that Northern Fail made a real difference to customers; every minute spent on their trains would  be the most miserable minutes of their day. 

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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The routes I've used for commuting over the years have changed hands several times, with Arriva being one of the companies involved. What you get each time is usually just a new colour scheme.

 

Extra rolling stock to reduce crowding would cost proper money, so is usually mentioned as an aspiration for some date in the conveniently distant future.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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If Arriva Trains Wales is anything to go by things will not improve. Like Futtocks says most likely a repaint of the existing ancient NR stock. 

 

Although Northern Rail does have plans to introduce "new" stock: Mind the doors: Manchester commuters 'could soon be going to work on old London Tube trains' :dry:

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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I've not done a lot of train travel in recent years but since having to give up my car I've been forced back on to public transport.  I spent three weeks working in scouseland which meant a commute on Northern Rail.  The stock was a mixture of old and new because the route is now electrified, but not all the way to Blackpool which is where my homeward bound train always went, and it was always just two carriages long, at 5.20pm, all the way to Blackpool.  Thankfully I got off at St Helens but it was hell on there especially when the weather was warm.  I'd leg it from work to secure a seat far enough away from the doors to ensure I didn't have someone's backside in my face.  Surely the new franchisee will provide better than that?

 

Also, their trains are almost never on time.  I now use buses and my bus stop going home is beside one of the train stations in St Helens.  All I hear are announcements about how many minutes trains are going to be late, and again the rolling stock is on its last legs and on this occasion never electrified even though this line is as well.

 

Clearly Northern didn't have either the money or the will to provide a good service.  That's a shame as they used to sponsor rugby league and would advertise the Northern Rail Cup on their trains, which is more exposure than many of our other sponsors give to the game.  Seemingly all the staff will transfer across to Arriva which is a good thing but whether the services improve or not is another matter.

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Initially all that changes when a franchise moves is the name of the superior opperating company. The staff are unchanged, they just get TUPEd over to the new operator. The rolling stock doesn't belong to the TOC but is leased from one of the three rolling stock leasing companies. There is generally a 3 to 5 year lead time on getting replacement stock. So no, nothing will be changing any time soon.

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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You can, by operating company, compare performance here.  But it's something of a useless chart as, for example, companies will often have one or two lines that always run well that cover the ones that never do.  For example, Southeastern's woeful figures are actually improved by HS1 which runs well most days, compared to their suburban and non HS main line routes which are disastrous.

 

And, obviously, no one seems to bother counting for overcrowding, comfort etc.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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You can, by operating company, compare performance here. But it's something of a useless chart as, for example, companies will often have one or two lines that always run well that cover the ones that never do. For example, Southeastern's woeful figures are actually improved by HS1 which runs well most days, compared to their suburban and non HS main line routes which are disastrous.

And, obviously, no one seems to bother counting for overcrowding, comfort etc.

The problem with timeliness statistics is that they don't tell you the cause of the delays. Most delays are caused by signalling and track faults and therefore Network Rail's problem. But you can't complain directly to them or ask them for compensation. No, with our wonderful railway system each of the TOCs has a team of lawyers who compile all the compensation claims against Network Rail who in turn have a larger team of lawyers challenging those claims. Each claim can take months to process. The miracle that is privatisation "efficiency" in inaction. :dry:

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Some delays, especially in London, are also caused by the fact that the trains are too small for the number of customers, so 2-3 minutes are lost at each station as people 'torpedo' themselves at the crowd in an endeavour to get on the train, even if everyone is already breathing in to get in the maximum number.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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The only train company who I can think of who's really invested in their rolling stock is Virgin. Branson gives an insight into how he wanted Virgin trains to operate in his autobigraphy. He was appalled with the state of things before he took over, how previous companies never put the customer first and were only interested in their bottom line. He saw the Specification for the proposed new rolling stock and sent it back saying it was rubbish, insisting they include all the extra safety features that were avilable regardless of cost. He describes that as being one of the best & proudest decisions he ever made when after the crash in Cumbria he learned that without those extra safety features there would almost certainly have been loss of life.

I can't see Arriva changes things like Virgin but they can't really get much worse.

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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Some delays, especially in London, are also caused by the fact that the trains are too small for the number of customers, so 2-3 minutes are lost at each station as people 'torpedo' themselves at the crowd in an endeavour to get on the train, even if everyone is already breathing in to get in the maximum number.

 

When I lived in Mortlake the trains into Waterloo between, say, 7.30 and 8.30 were like that.  By Putney you were waiting at a station just for whoever was next to the door to breathe in so they could close legally without letting anyone on.

 

Down in Hastings the same is true of the Hastings-Brighton train which is routinely full to bursting with people left on the platform - and every day is 2 carriages long.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Tuesday I did Woking to Waterloo return - about 28 mins, £17 day return.  12 coaches so we were warned if we wanted to get off at Clapham junction we had to be in the first nine carriages.

 

Long term car park at Woking is nearer London than it is Woking.

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The only train company who I can think of who's really invested in their rolling stock is Virgin. Branson gives an insight into how he wanted Virgin trains to operate in his autobigraphy. He was appalled with the state of things before he took over, how previous companies never put the customer first and were only interested in their bottom line. He saw the Specification for the proposed new rolling stock and sent it back saying it was rubbish, insisting they include all the extra safety features that were avilable regardless of cost. He describes that as being one of the best & proudest decisions he ever made when after the crash in Cumbria he learned that without those extra safety features there would almost certainly have been loss of life.

I can't see Arriva changes things like Virgin but they can't really get much worse.

What a pity he's now ripping passengers off on the formerly state owned, very economical, and punctual East Coast Route, which he took over in March.

I went to the GF by train from Dewsbury. I bought a return ticket the day before. I needn't have bothered.  No one looked at it at Dewsbury either coming or going, and the same at Manchester. I could have saved the money!

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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What a pity he's now ripping passengers off on the formerly state owned, very economical, and punctual East Coast Route, which he took over in March.

I went to the GF by train from Dewsbury. I bought a return ticket the day before. I needn't have bothered.  No one looked at it at Dewsbury either coming or going, and the same at Manchester. I could have saved the money!

 

Virgin group only own 10%, the other 90% belongs to Stagecoach. 

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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What a pity he's now ripping passengers off on the formerly state owned, very economical, and punctual East Coast Route, which he took over in March.

I went to the GF by train from Dewsbury. I bought a return ticket the day before. I needn't have bothered.  No one looked at it at Dewsbury either coming or going, and the same at Manchester. I could have saved the money!

I don't get the reference to "ripping off". You paid your fare and received the service you had paid for. You don't mention lateness or overcrowding or dirty carriages. Furthermore, you can now bask in the warm glow of having paid your way. Unless I've missed some irony, I just don't get your point.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

Founder (and, so far, only) member.

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I don't get the reference to "ripping off". You paid your fare and received the service you had paid for. You don't mention lateness or overcrowding or dirty carriages. Furthermore, you can now bask in the warm glow of having paid your way. Unless I've missed some irony, I just don't get your point.

Sorry I wasn't connecting the two facts.  And the train from Dewsbury was a Tans-Pennine.  As who owns the East Coast Franchise, I wasn't aware of the ownership details, just that it says VIRGIN in very large letters on the trains.  "Ripping off"  East Coast Trains was punctual, comfortable, economical and made a profit the for taxpayer.  Osborne sold them off to Virgin (and whoever) and they immediately started putting up the fares.

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Sorry I wasn't connecting the two facts.  And the train from Dewsbury was a Tans-Pennine.  As who owns the East Coast Franchise, I wasn't aware of the ownership details, just that it says VIRGIN in very large letters on the trains.  "Ripping off"  East Coast Trains was punctual, comfortable, economical and made a profit the for taxpayer.  Osborne sold them off to Virgin (and whoever) and they immediately started putting up the fares.

 

Thanks. I get it now!

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

Founder (and, so far, only) member.

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