Dual Reg

[Davo5]

Assigning community clubs to pro clubs,surely this will have a massive detrimental effect on the other clubs in the area not chosen.Players,especially at youth level will be attracted to these "super" community clubs at the expense of the rest.

[TaxiEgg]

Every community club would have a pro club to align to bit of sorting out initially but no club would be left out but like the old district grouping .

The concern you raise happens now my idea would need some thinking but not to difficult to achieve .

[bowes]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Championship clubs eventually set up a League 2 including clubs that do want dual registration

[Defender1]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Championship clubs eventually set up a League 2 including clubs that do want dual registration

Yes split the game even more, it wouldn't surprise me

[bowes]

Yes split the game even more, it wouldn't surprise me

They'll have to either do that or raid the NCL for players to run a Championship reserve league. Pretty much all options have issues. Personally I think a trade off where pro clubs shut down U16s but run reserves might be the least harmful option in the long run but would hit the NCL hard in the short term

[TaxiEgg]

The problem is at the moment we have not got the numbers feeding into the OA game, because of the poor management of the community game .

Wether the RFL want to admit it or not the switch in playing season has had a negative effect on participation and coupled with the damaging impact the scholarship program has we find ourselves without the numbers to sustain the game .

We have had countless surveys conducted by the media happy RFL and what conclusions have they come up with nobody knows .

DR clearly illustrates for me how out of touch the RFL are there are other areas in which the RFL carry on with blinkers on , irrespective of the wishes of the game .

Their way or no way is the theme which now is coming back to bite them the community game has had enough and it now time to take stock and take our game back , a strong community equals a strong pro game .

The sooner the powers that be realise that the better , you don't build the game by distancing yourselves from the people you are supposed to represent .

[Guest]

What ever happens we will see the RFL top table introduce something without consulting any one else just like the primary league episode, they took advice from some academics who done very little research with the grass route clubs and volunteers  and pushed ahead with what they were told was the right way, it is unbelievable how far away the RFL are from the grass route clubs, there is only one guy who is actually aware and works hard to help them and that's young Anthony Atherton, the others are just YES MEN, sadly these yes men will be the decline of our great game.

[Defender1]

What ever happens we will see the RFL top table introduce something without consulting any one else just like the primary league episode, they took advice from some academics who done very little research with the grass route clubs and volunteers  and pushed ahead with what they were told was the right way, it is unbelievable how far away the RFL are from the grass route clubs, there is only one guy who is actually aware and works hard to help them and that's young Anthony Atherton, the others are just YES MEN, sadly these yes men will be the decline of our great game.

Sorry Big Mac I have to disagree on the Primary subject they did actually do a lot of research, problem was the feedback was against what the RFL wanted to hear and they ignored it and tried to sweep it under the carpet, the evidence was damming with I think all the feedback against a change, it appears the RFL take feedback from a minority of YES clubs against the whole of the game.

[DoubleD]

The easy answer Double D is, is it our problem, but in reality it does raise a very fearful probability that the pro game will bring back T&C's which is worse for the community Game.

The championship and super league clubs will just reduce their squads next season and cherry pick the lads back to the championship and Under 23's for no or little money then we have no control.

My self and Peter Moran fought very hard top rid T&C's out of the community game. The pro game was a crippling us taking lads not paying a penny and stopping them from playing in the lower ranks.

Don't get me wrong I'm not in favour of Dual Reg in the guise presented as there could potentially be too much displacement from the community game. These lads having no financial incentive to come back may just walk away then where does that leave us.

There has to be a solution and i would think it lies with the RFL getting their wallets out to help make the championship game be more viable or we go real radicle and change the games structure from top to bottom. Testing months ahead i think

Thanks for your response, you're one of the reasonable posters on here.

Surely it is upto the amateur clubs to best manage DR and not alienate their current players. Everyone is looking at the negatives rather than the positives. Surely the most important thing is to ensure as many people play our game as possible. For that to happen there needs to be a flow up and down the pyramid, not a them or us attitude. It's so parochial and small minded.

[Guest]

Sorry Big Mac I have to disagree on the Primary subject they did actually do a lot of research, problem was the feedback was against what the RFL wanted to hear and they ignored it and tried to sweep it under the carpet, the evidence was damming with I think all the feedback against a change, it appears the RFL take feedback from a minority of YES clubs against the whole of the game.

Sorry about that Defender, but the way the primary project has came across it seems its just been chucked together, its a shame a lot of clubs have just sat back and let the rfl walk all over them, 

[Defender1]

Sorry about that Defender, but the way the primary project has came across it seems its just been chucked together, its a shame a lot of clubs have just sat back and let the rfl walk all over them,

No problem, only the NW stood up for its principles, the others, Lemins Spring to mind

[Wilber]

Thanks for your response, you're one of the reasonable posters on here.

Surely it is upto the amateur clubs to best manage DR and not alienate their current players. Everyone is looking at the negatives rather than the positives. Surely the most important thing is to ensure as many people play our game as possible. For that to happen there needs to be a flow up and down the pyramid, not a them or us attitude. It's so parochial and small minded.

 

Thanks for your comment i always try to be balanced and challenging.

 

Your right DD there has to be a flow up and down but without limitation, the Aussies call it the feeder club system! but that comes by changing the culture of the sport which is what i am intimating in a radicle change in the structure.

 

Just allowing 6 lads to register to their club of origin and only allowing 3 lads to play upsets both sides of the playing spectrum so why even offer it?

 

For me, as a nation and to change everything, we have to look at the lessons learned from our antipodean friends and that means first and foremost our national team comes first and SL supports it. That also means there has to be one body to cover all. How ridiculous to have a company run one professional league and the NGB try to govern it with no powers and then they run a cheap league to support it, we are destined for disaster. One Body must run all and England RL be at the top of the pyramid. look what the NRL have achieved by getting rid of the ARL and its partners and bringing it all under one banner.

 

Then put taxi eggs suggestion into position and have cluster groups affiliated to SL clubs but each cluster is headed up by two championship clubs with the SL clubs overseeing. However again the championship clubs will have to forgive that right to ever get in the big league and that filters with the same attitude all the way down to Tier 5 rugby etc etc you can see where i am going i hope. but who would sort out that rigmarole, only money for me?

 

We need a very rich lover of rugby league to come knocking and take us forward with a massive injection of cash, bring in Fresh faces at the RFL/SL (one body) with proper passion for the game and not their own pockets. We also desperately need a sense of Unity because for me regardless of what is suggested many people are just fed up with the game and just keep fighting the same battles week in week out. Yes time for change but a radicle one.

[DoubleD]

Thanks for your comment i always try to be balanced and challenging.

Your right DD there has to be a flow up and down but without limitation, the Aussies call it the feeder club system! but that comes by changing the culture of the sport which is what i am intimating in a radicle change in the structure.

Just allowing 6 lads to register to their club of origin and only allowing 3 lads to play upsets both sides of the playing spectrum so why even offer it?

For me, as a nation and to change everything, we have to look at the lessons learned from our antipodean friends and that means first and foremost our national team comes first and SL supports it. That also means there has to be one body to cover all. How ridiculous to have a company run one professional league and the NGB try to govern it with no powers and then they run a cheap league to support it, we are destined for disaster. One Body must run all and England RL be at the top of the pyramid. look what the NRL have achieved by getting rid of the ARL and its partners and bringing it all under one banner.

Then put taxi eggs suggestion into position and have cluster groups affiliated to SL clubs but each cluster is headed up by two championship clubs with the SL clubs overseeing. However again the championship clubs will have to forgive that right to ever get in the big league and that filters with the same attitude all the way down to Tier 5 rugby etc etc you can see where i am going i hope. but who would sort out that rigmarole, only money for me?

We need a very rich lover of rugby league to come knocking and take us forward with a massive injection of cash, bring in Fresh faces at the RFL/SL (one body) with proper passion for the game and not their own pockets. We also desperately need a sense of Unity because for me regardless of what is suggested many people are just fed up with the game and just keep fighting the same battles week in week out. Yes time for change but a radicle one.

I agree with some of your suggestions but the big difference between us and our antipodean friends is that promotion and relegation is ingrained in our culture unlike theirs. It helps create competition and encourages wealthy investors who want to take their club to the top (that's the aim anyway). For me that has to be balanced with the better parts of licensing which were certain standards in place and youth/player development.

The RFL does need to be stronger on these matters I agree and actually lead from the front, not just try and manage the situation (there's a big difference between leading and managing). They should never have changed the youth setup and should insist SL clubs revert to U16, U18 and U21s with upto 3/4 overage players allowed in the 21s.

[Defender1]

Wilber is right we do need change, the issue is most have no faith in the way the RFL want to run the game. They seem to make changes that have been agreed in meetings with i suspect intelligent people but they are clueless about the reality and how it will affect the game.

We have people with knowledge and experience of the game with views that are ignored, the RFL sit in regional meetings with the few strong clubs they have got into bed with, who back the RFL's every move, the majority of clubs sit there silent just wanting to get home, and the few decentres are more or less ridiculed until they give up.

[bowes]

A change that ended the distinction between the professional and amateur game would be good. Would the prospect of Hunslet Vs West Hull or Rochdale Vs Wath Brow as league fixtures really be terrible?

[Defender1]

I think the two main issues are, there is no money in the game and not enough players. Nobody likes it or agrees but could the merger of clubs in close proximity share the cost and their players to play in a reserve league or academy set up, this would give pro players game time, at the moment we have players on contracts who should never have contracts or won't make the grade, just playing the numbers game, this is actually affecting the standard and quality of the game.

I think the words from David Gent "Switch to summer and you will have that many players you won't know what to do with them" is coming back to haunt the RFL.

[Guest]

No problem, only the NW stood up for its principles, the others, Lemins Spring to mind

By all accounts some of the Cumbrian clubs also went against the new format but it has been hushed up and the rfl are blaming a couple of clubs who are anti rfl for stirring up trouble, none of the Cumbrian clubs trilled the new format in 2015, they just played the normal game as they have done in the past, so how has the rfl not picked this up, they said they would be re monitoring the new format to see how the clubs were adjusting and taking to it.  

[Defender1]

By all accounts some of the Cumbrian clubs also went against the new format but it has been hushed up and the rfl are blaming a couple of clubs who are anti rfl for stirring up trouble, none of the Cumbrian clubs trilled the new format in 2015, they just played the normal game as they have done in the past, so how has the rfl not picked this up, they said they would be re monitoring the new format to see how the clubs were adjusting and taking to it.  

 

That was the feedback I received the RFL reps had been saying everything was working well with the new format but in reality nobody was playing it, when management found out they weren't too happy

[Guest]

So that's been kept very quiet, if this is the case why hasn't the management contacted the clubs directly to ask what the  reason is why they haven't been playing the new format since the reps have not been truthful with there observations, it seems they haven't been doing there job doesn't it,  this is the problem when you have paid rfl employees involved in local leagues, they just report back to red hall with what the top table want to hear, then when if goes pear shape they blame everyone else, 

 

I take it this its Mr Davidson who is the rep for Cumbria and Barrow we are talking about,

[Defender1]

Taxi may elaborate he has been involved with the process more than anybody and is still fighting the NW's corner despite pressure from the RFL

[TaxiEgg]

Daisy represents the two Cumbrian leagues at the PRL group .

And the impression he gives at the meetings is exactly how you post .

All points are noted the Cumbrian leagues should have access to all the PRL group minutes.

It is fair to say not only the Cumbrian league tell the RFL want they want to here , the impression and there is plenty of evidence to support is that some leagues say one thing in the meetings and the opposite happens on the pitches around the country .

Twitter and Facebook is s marvellous tool to use

[Wilber]

A change that ended the distinction between the professional and amateur game would be good. Would the prospect of Hunslet Vs West Hull or Rochdale Vs Wath Brow as league fixtures really be terrible?

 

No it wouldn't but again its all about money plus you do need that differential, a class up so to speak. If Rochdale and Hunslet were just the same at the NCL premier it proves my opinion from before that NCL Prem and 1 are just as good or better than the championship 1, so why have Championship 1?

 

I agree with some of your suggestions but the big difference between us and our antipodean friends is that promotion and relegation is ingrained in our culture unlike theirs. It helps create competition and encourages wealthy investors who want to take their club to the top (that's the aim anyway). For me that has to be balanced with the better parts of licensing which were certain standards in place and youth/player development.

The RFL does need to be stronger on these matters I agree and actually lead from the front, not just try and manage the situation (there's a big difference between leading and managing). They should never have changed the youth setup and should insist SL clubs revert to U16, U18 and U21s with upto 3/4 overage players allowed in the 21s.

 

Youth development is pathetic, saying a lad has to be Super League ready at 19 is stupid they are few and far between. I actually don't agree with Scholarship's or Under 16's either. Yes run an 18's with an effective Alliance but again if we had the money for that we wouldn't need duel reg

[bowes]

No it wouldn't but again its all about money plus you do need that differential, a class up so to speak. If Rochdale and Hunslet were just the same at the NCL premier it proves my opinion from before that NCL Prem and 1 are just as good or better than the championship 1, so why have Championship 1?

 

 

Youth development is pathetic, saying a lad has to be Super League ready at 19 is stupid they are few and far between. I actually don't agree with Scholarship's or Under 16's either. Yes run an 18's with an effective Alliance but again if we had the money for that we wouldn't need duel reg

I think Rochdale and Hunslet are probably stronger than NCL Premier but I don't think the bottom end of League 1 is stronger. But that's as much as issue with the game not being as strong in the midlands and south as anything else. I would consider ending the distinction between tiers 3 and 4 but it wouldn't be easy

 

To be honest though I think there are higher priorities at amateur game though:

 

1. Get more clubs at NCL level (even if it means regionalising division 2/3 and the voluntary mergers of clubs where one has a strong junior set up and one has a strong senior set up)

2. Make sure there's a strong CLS (this is a much higher priority than 6 team RU off season leagues)

3. Prioritise development in towns on the fringes of the heartlands where the growth seems to be strongest (ie create more Bury Broncos and Manchester Rangers type clubs)

4. Where possible have Under 18s playing at their own age group rather than in open age

5. (Sorry) Get everyone playing the same season

 

Reserves and either U18s or U19s is probably the best set up for pro clubs if possible. U16s are a disaster

[DoubleD]

No it wouldn't but again its all about money plus you do need that differential, a class up so to speak. If Rochdale and Hunslet were just the same at the NCL premier it proves my opinion from before that NCL Prem and 1 are just as good or better than the championship 1, so why have Championship 1?

Youth development is pathetic, saying a lad has to be Super League ready at 19 is stupid they are few and far between. I actually don't agree with Scholarship's or Under 16's either. Yes run an 18's with an effective Alliance but again if we had the money for that we wouldn't need duel reg

But why can't SL clubs see that? They voted the current system in. It's such a short sighted move. The RFL need to take the lead on this.

[Defender1]

But why can't SL clubs see that? They voted the current system in. It's such a short sighted move. The RFL need to take the lead on this.

 

The problem is IMO the RFL have taken the lead and that is why we are in this mess, I spoke to Lee Radford recently and had a good conversation about the game he did not have a good word to say about the RFL or the way it runs the game, if the Super League Clubs are not going to stand up to them who will, we have had recent topics where the SL clubs have been split on votes.

Sorry to bring up the Primary as an example but the amount of players on the pitch at the young age has been a big issue, Leeds had a tournament and said on the invite e mail they would stick to the original format as they have always played this, on TV in the background you see small kids playing more than the recommended numbers, Hull had a pre-match tournament on West Park and there were not the numbers expected so they had 8-9-10 all playing against each other,  why has an actual league been been faced with sanctions for trying to play with 2 extra players when Professional clubs either don't agree with the format, just ignore the format or try to get as many kids playing at half time as they can.

Off the subject I know but relevant in the way the game is run.