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The great EU Referendum poll (new question in poll!)

EU Referendum  

149 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    • Remain a member of the European Union
      72
    • Leave the European Union
      66
    • Don't know?
      11
  2. 2. With two weeks to go, has your vote changed?

    • Yes, I was remain, now leave
      0
    • Yes, I was leave, now remain
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now leave
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now remain
      3
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to leave
      0
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to stay
      5
    • No, my intention is the same
      18


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The more this debate drags on the more likely I think it will be that there will be a leadership challenge to Cameron immediately after the referendum.

If its a vote to leave then I think its inevitable that Cameron will step down but even if its a vote to remain, particularly if its close, then I think a challenge will come with there being more than enough support to force a vote.

 

Either way I can well foresee another PM in No10 before the end of the year. 


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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New performers announced for Brexit concert BPop Live.
 
Cheryl, Jay, Mike & Bobby, aka the group that can't call themselves Bucks Fizz any more for legal reasons. 
 
And Gordon Hendricks. Yes, the Gordon Hendricks, Grand Champion Elvis impersonator! 
 
Guest speakers, Kate Hoey, Nigel Farage and Liam Fox.
 
All yours for 23 staunchly British pounds, folks.

 

 

 

My money is on Liam, Nige and Kate doing an impromptu version of Puff (The Magic Dragon) as Peter, Paul and Mary.

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The more this debate drags on the more likely I think it will be that there will be a leadership challenge to Cameron immediately after the referendum.

 

Can you imagine it? Those who have spent months banging on about the country reclaiming its ability to make its own decisions, putting power back in the hands of the British people, blah blah blah, then conspiring to topple the democratically elected Prime Minister and replace him via an electoral process which excludes everyone but the handful of people who happen to be members of the Tory party. And they call the EU undemocratic!


.

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Can you imagine it? Those who have spent months banging on about the country reclaiming its ability to make its own decisions, putting power back in the hands of the British people, blah blah blah, then conspiring to topple the democratically elected Prime Minister and replace him via an electoral process which excludes everyone but the handful of people who happen to be members of the Tory party. And they call the EU undemocratic!

No different to Brown becoming PM though when Blair stepped down


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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No different to Brown becoming PM though when Blair stepped down

I don't know anyone who doubted that though when Blair was re-elected in 2005.  It was a done deal then.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Did you know... in 2000-2005, we recruited between 13,000 and 15,000 nurses from outside the EEA each year and this then stabilised at near 10,000 for the rest of the decade.  During the same time, we recruited typically 1000-2000 nurses from within the EEA. From 2010 onwards, we've gone up to 8000 nurses per year from the EEA and under 1000 from outside because the government clamped down on immigrants making it far harder for the NHS to recruit on visas.  It takes approximately 10 times the recruitment cost to recruit a non-EEA nurse as it does an EEA one.

 

Just an aside to show something else that'd need to be fixed if we had to leave the EU.

 

Or is this something that can be fixed by the £350m per week we'd save?


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Did you know... in 2000-2005, we recruited between 13,000 and 15,000 nurses from outside the EEA each year and this then stabilised at near 10,000 for the rest of the decade.  During the same time, we recruited typically 1000-2000 nurses from within the EEA. From 2010 onwards, we've gone up to 8000 nurses per year from the EEA and under 1000 from outside because the government clamped down on immigrants making it far harder for the NHS to recruit on visas.  It takes approximately 10 times the recruitment cost to recruit a non-EEA nurse as it does an EEA one.

 

Just an aside to show something else that'd need to be fixed if we had to leave the EU.

 

Or is this something that can be fixed by the £350m £170m per week we'd save?

 

Yeh, why not. Just another thing to add to the very, very long list. :dry:


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Maybe we should train a few more nurses .

Shush, that's just heresy. We should keep making it harder to become a nurse and then keep their pay down for "austerity" when they do qualify.

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Would Labour sack Corbyn if there is a majority for leaving?

I dare say there'd be an attempt to unseat him, as long as it could be fixed so that only the MPs had a say and not the party membership. And I'm sure that would work out well, with no hard feelings or lingering grudges.  :ph34r:


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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Shush, that's just heresy. We should keep making it harder to become a nurse and then keep their pay down for "austerity" when they do qualify.

 

and yet

 

On the BBC parliament channel, they showed part of an interview from the Treasury Select Committee where Lord Rose, the chairman of the 'British Stronger In Europe' group, admitted to a group of MPs that a British exit would boost the pay of British workers by cutting off the cheap supply of labour from Eastern Europe.  He then said that increasing British workers pay would not be a "good thing".  When pushed by a labour MP, he did admit that big business favours membership of the 'Brussels club' because it is depressing lower earners wages in Britain.

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and yet

That nice Mr Osborne has already committed the NHS to 1% pay rises until 2020 at the earliest regardless of inflation because we're all in it together, unless you're an MP.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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I see Frank Field was on Question Time last night.

He's an odd bod, is he fish or fowl?

A very right wing socialist or a very left wing Tory?


Ron Banks

Bears and Barrow

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Good performance by Gove on Sky news.  He uses key words very well (almost subliminal?) to get his point across.  Sidesteps very well and gets back to his own answer.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Good performance by Gove on Sky news. He uses key words very well (almost subliminal?) to get his point across. Sidesteps very well and gets back to his own answer.

I think I'd rather have him than Boris as Dave's inevitable replacement. Just.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Boris was hoping to come out of this as the winner, that it might be give is a deep surprise.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Did you know... in 2000-2005, we recruited between 13,000 and 15,000 nurses from outside the EEA each year and this then stabilised at near 10,000 for the rest of the decade.  During the same time, we recruited typically 1000-2000 nurses from within the EEA. From 2010 onwards, we've gone up to 8000 nurses per year from the EEA and under 1000 from outside because the government clamped down on immigrants making it far harder for the NHS to recruit on visas.  It takes approximately 10 times the recruitment cost to recruit a non-EEA nurse as it does an EEA one.

 

Just an aside to show something else that'd need to be fixed if we had to leave the EU.

 

Or is this something that can be fixed by the £350m per week we'd save?

If a Brexit happened then the recruitment of nurses from Europe wouldn't change except that we would recruit them if and when needed rather than because they are from the EU.  Why anyone would think that we would stop recruiting from abroad I have no idea.  We did it before the EU was invented, before even the common market was invented, and we would do it again.  All countries do it.  A country doesn't have to be a member of the EU to recruit from countries which form the EU.

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Well, it might just be that skilled and qualified people fom the EU lose their desire to work here if we were to submit to the reactionary forces of Europhobia. The more I see Boris Duncan Smith spouting their lies and primitive nonsense on TV, the more I read of Boris Fox and Liam Farrige in the agressively Euro hating Mail and Telegraph, the more I support them as candidates for the colonisation of Mars....

In their blind pursuit of their goal, they totally ignore the fact that our treaty and other obligations to the international community prevent us taking the steps that the Gove Smith axis says we could take if we left.

I've finally retired at age 70. I have the UK state pension, a modest pension fund and a very small French occupational pension. If we vote leave, I stand to lose a lot of my income, and in that case I shall pursue Smith Fox etc so vigorously that they will regret their treason.

Edited by JohnM

Four legs good - two legs bad

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Well, it might just be that skilled and qualified people fom the EU lose their desire to work here if we were to submit to the reactionary forces of Europhobia.

No problem.  There is the rest of the world to choose from.

 

However, it would be unlikely as compared to a number of EU countries the wages on offer in the UK are very good.

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Good performance by Gove on Sky news.  He uses key words very well (almost subliminal?) to get his point across.  Sidesteps very well and gets back to his own answer.

He always comes across to me as a very unpleasant man, his wife seems to be equally unpleasant.  If we have to have another Tory PM (and I'm afraid we do) I'd prefer Theresa May.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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No problem.  There is the rest of the world to choose from.

 

However, it would be unlikely as compared to a number of EU countries the wages on offer in the UK are very good.

Dream on


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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As always with these TV Q&A's it is about the performance rather than the substance of what they say. I'm not a fan of Gove by any means but it'd be churlish to suggest that he didn't perform well even if you disagree with the content. He came across as very polished, calm and assured and got his key phrases in several times. In particular the "lets take back control" message is one that will resonate with many people.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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As always with these TV Q&A's it is about the performance rather than the substance of what they say. I'm not a fan of Gove by any means but it'd be churlish to suggest that he didn't perform well even if you disagree with the content. He came across as very polished, calm and assured and got his key phrases in several times. In particular the "lets take back control" message is one that will resonate with many people.

Even though it's highly debatable whether we have actually relinquished any control in the first place.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Even though it's highly debatable whether we have actually relinquished any control in the first place.

I don't disagree, but it's amazing what a bit of hype and well worded rhetoric can achieve these days in the age of the media soundbyte.


I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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