North Wales Crusaders Club Statement

[MancRL]

http://www.northwalescrusaders.co.uk/11345-2/

 

 

Is this cost cutting? or are the problems deeper.

[Spidey]

http://www.northwalescrusaders.co.uk/11345-2/

Is this cost cutting? or are the problems deeper.

I think the writing was on the wall when the club was asking for investment - they're paying out more than what they get in.

I wonder how many players will leave after this?

[EssexRL]

This is a real shame. Cru, if successful, have real potential to grow the game. I really hope the ckub survives: their supporters are ace!

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

I think the writing was on the wall when the club was asking for investment - they're paying out more than what they get in.

I wonder how many players will leave after this?

Given that the players have already had to accept one pay cut, that's a worry. Earlier, the club was saying that the debt was manageable, but it would appear not. Been here before with London (in its various manifestations) and the Cru and it's got to be a matter for concern.

[boro hornet]

Should clubs not always have to live within their resources. If they don't then problems like this will happen.

[The Parksider]

Should clubs not always have to live within their resources. If they don't then problems like this will happen.

 

Well it's catch 22.

 

If a club lives within it's meagre resources then it's most likely the club won't get the results and the fans won't come.

 

Someone thought Crusaders on field success in terms of win ratio was the club "getting expansion right" when all it took was to look up the playing roster and it all seems like lads from the professional player pool in Lancashire.

 

So I suspect the club have paid out on better players in the hope a good ratio of wins will bring more fans in, or better still get promotion which could even see crowds rise on more away fans as well as bring big names like Leigh.....

 

But history repeats itself so maybe the investment in players didn't provide the hoped for return, and so the owners have given it a go, it hasn't worked and they just want the players to take the loss??

 

Then any new owner isn't buying a debt.

[gogledd]

Well it's catch 22.

 

If a club lives within it's meagre resources then it's most likely the club won't get the results and the fans won't come.

 

Someone thought Crusaders on field success in terms of win ratio was the club "getting expansion right" when all it took was to look up the playing roster and it all seems like lads from the professional player pool in Lancashire.

 

So I suspect the club have paid out on better players in the hope a good ratio of wins will bring more fans in, or better still get promotion which could even see crowds rise on more away fans as well as bring big names like Leigh.....

 

But history repeats itself so maybe the investment in players didn't provide the hoped for return, and so the owners have given it a go, it hasn't worked and they just want the players to take the loss??

 

Then any new owner isn't buying a debt.

Pretty much "nai on the head".

 

The Club tried to live with the big boys when we were promoted in 2013, only to be demoted in 2014 with the same cohort of players - who wanted the same payment, in a lower league with a smaller crowd. 

 

This has lead to outstanding debts and the inevitable problems of living beyond our means. Hopefully we can survive but it will be touch and go. And we'll need all the support we can to get through this. Anyone and everyone needs to get to our League 1 games - starting with Barrow on 6th March

[Spidey]

The Club tried to live with the big boys when we were promoted in 2013, only to be demoted in 2014 with the same cohort of players - who wanted the same payment, in a lower league with a smaller crowd.

Club has brought the situation on itself. Feel sorry for the fans but not the club

[The Parksider]

Pretty much "nail on the head".

 

The Club tried to live with the big boys when we were promoted in 2013, only to be demoted in 2014 with the same cohort of players - who wanted the same payment, in a lower league with a smaller crowd. 

 

This has lead to outstanding debts and the inevitable problems of living beyond our means. 

 

For those interested Crusaders played out the Welsh Superleague franchise after Celtic Crusaders demise. Celts best crowd was 6,351 in the opener and inevitably the worst was 1,988 in the closing match.

 

The move to Wrexham provided an opener, despite the team not being up to scratch of 10,334.

 

Therefore I think we can see why people running/close to the club felt there was an audience to be had in Wrexham. Not only that it's only 35 miles, much along a motorway, from Warrington, more away fans possible for the crowd.

 

That year Crusaders won matches, and the crowd didn't drop that badly in fact the last game at Wrexham was 5,137. There was a pretty good fan base as good as Wakey and Salford.

 

Following year to finish the franchise coming bottom they averaged 3,377, London finished their franchise on 1,294. Again that was a relatively good crowd for a struggling non-heartland club

 

Post the end of the licence Crusaders came back as North Wales coming 8th out of ten clubs in the bottom league, despite that poor season on the pitch their best crowd was 1500 and they averaged best part of 1,000. For CC1 that was pretty damn good.

 

All the indications were yet again there was a pretty good fanbase if the club could do the business on the pitch

 

Club has brought the situation on itself. Feel sorry for the fans but not the club

 

So 2013 they went for promotion, and again hit a pretty handy 900 average and finished on a high with 1,562 against South Wales.

 

I just can't see that the club "brought this on themselves" Mr. Spidey??

 

They saw an opportunity to invest in players to get into a higher division and build on that last crowd of 1,562 in a division that averaged 435. The figures show that there was great support for the club in Wrexham.

 

What was the alternative? To have kept the player budget low for 2013 and find themselves "surviving" for 2014, and again for 2015, and again this year?

 

I say "surviving", but when you look at Skolars 10 years in CC1 they have managed to lose a quarter of their low crowd. Hemel Stags in the last three years have lost a third of their "crowd".

 

For me there was an ambitious board of directors at North Wales who knew the club could not stand still and end up in a slow decline like Skolars and Hemel, they knew it was a risk, they knew on the figures they possibly could get into the Championship and survive and break even given that the support had been there for the club despite results.

 

In 2014 Crusaders would have survived in the Championship but for the massive P & R upheaval. They finished above Rochdale, Swinton and Barrow. They got better crowds than Haven,Rochdale, Sheffield, Workington, Batley, and Doncaster. Clubs who have been around for 30 to 145 years.

 

I truly feel sorry for the board.

 

The new system robbed them of their Championship status, forced them back into the "League of death" and fans started to walk away 640 last year........... 

 

I blame the RFL........  I blame 300 fans for deserting the club.......

[Hornetto]

The Club tried to live with the big boys when we were promoted in 2013, only to be demoted in 2014 with the same cohort of players - who wanted the same payment, in a lower league with a smaller crowd. 

 

 

 

There it is.

[Hornetto]

 

 

The new system robbed them of their Championship status, forced them back into the "League of death" and fans started to walk away 640 last year........... 

 

It robbed us of our 'Championship Staus' too - any other year we'd've stayed up. But we didn't.

We got promoted and relegated alongside Crusaders on - as you say - smaller crowds and commensurately smaller expenditure.

[Spidey]

Parksider - brought it on themselves. Paid championship wages for a league one team on lower crowds. They obviously couldn't afford it and I doubt the 300 lost fans would have made that much of a difference to their business model for the season - seems to be more fundamental budgeting issues

[Spidey]

I have no idea about their budgeting activities but they aren't going to get very far fielding 13 locals of RL conference standard. So what are they to do? Try to get better ones, hence the catch 22 element. Don't spend money but do 'the right thing' for a few years before dissapearing due to lack of interest or speculate to accumulate?

I made no reference to playing locals just that they should go for League One standard players on League One salaries - I wonder how many championship clubs missed out on NWC players cos they were paying over the odds for them?

They can't afford to speculate. They need to spend within their means - just like everybody else

[Moscow01]

I've heard their three best players have quit the club. Any confirmation? 

[Styx]

Yes Moscow01 confirmed by player postings on facebook and twitter.  Also depends on how you describe best, but definitely three very influential players.

[gogledd]

Dallimore, Duffy and Wild have announced they are leaving the club.

 

This is the Supporters Club statement:

Many of you have been reading the news about the club and are craving more information. Many of you have been contacting the Supporters Club Committee members with your worries too. The Supporters Club Committee are not able to add anything to the statement made by the club. We are only aware of the players leaving as they make personal announcements on Social Media.

What we can tell you is that the Supporters Club will make every effort to ensure we have a club in the future. We have an investment proposal for a Supporters Trust lodged with the board but we need to discuss this to ensure we have a viable and sustainable proposition. We are having ongoing discussions with the board of directors and will be meeting with the board on Sunday after the game.

If nothing else, please be assured the Supporters Club will be making every effort to protect the club and ensure its future. Its likely to be a very tough year for us but we have to stick together and do what id best to ensure we have a club and a squad of players.

As soon as we have some firm proposals we will ensure our supporters have the information.

We are North Wales Crusaders... Yma O Hyd.

So it seems there are willing supporters prepared to look at a Trust and will be seeking advice from other clubs with supporters trusts in the very near future.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Well, I'll be sticking on in there - as an old Fulhamite, this is just part of a normal season for me!

[The Parksider]

Parksider - brought it on themselves. Paid championship wages for a league one team on lower crowds. They obviously couldn't afford it and I doubt the 300 lost fans would have made that much of a difference to their business model for the season - seems to be more fundamental budgeting issues

 

Not sure mate, we would have to see the contracts and for how long they were for and how the change to P & R may have affected the situation......... 

 

I have no idea about their budgeting activities but they aren't going to get very far fielding 13 locals of RL conference standard. So what are they to do? Try to get better ones, hence the catch 22 element. Don't spend money but do 'the right thing' for a few years before dissapearing due to lack of interest or speculate to accumulate?

 

I'll go with you Johnners none of these clubs can afford to stand still, as I set out above standing still has seen Skolars and Hemel's crowds wither.

 

The one thing that Hornetto put me in mind of was how Hunslet used to operate.

 

We used to have no money so no decent players and at one point we had a 267 crowd.

 

When jerry Mason bankrolled better players we were on a flyer, and we made Division One - at that time we may have had Rudi Francis and Francis Jarvis from Northern.

 

I remember later when we ran out of cash we were right back down to the bottom and Mick Appleyard at Bisons sports had to round up a few of his mates to make a team at Donny who whacked us.

 

Then Graham Liles bankrolled us and again we were in the top division for a year, then money ran out and we were again at the bottom and crowds back to a few hundred.

 

Then off again chasing the SL dream and we got promotion but they would not let us in, by 2006 we were back to watching Donny and London Skolars smash us before a couple of Hundred.

 

Not sure there's any disgrace in giving it a go with a few quid when you have it, it's what most clubs tend to do. 

 

In the end we had the chance to stick to a budget just to stay alive, but it didn't work, low budget = low crowds = lower budget.

 

So we're an "A" team now,

[EdinburghExile]

I doubt this club will go under. There appears to be too much fan interest, although I suspect, like South Wales, they might have to run as a poor shoestring sort of outfit for a bit. If they can keep a decent number through the turnstiles though, there is hope to rebuild.

[yipyee]

I made no reference to playing locals just that they should go for League One standard players on League One salaries - I wonder how many championship clubs missed out on NWC players cos they were paying over the odds for them?

They can't afford to speculate. They need to spend within their means - just like everybody else

if you get crowds of 2-3k (example) you budget for that ....you sign players based on that.... year 2 only 600 turn up... thus creates a massive hole in finances!

in essence fourth from bottom was a good finish. And like widnes who knows where they could be know!

But the growth was halted and they lost their talismanic coach to rarah!

But all in the name of jeopardy right??

[PhilCarrington]

For those interested Crusaders played out the Welsh Superleague franchise after Celtic Crusaders demise. Celts best crowd was 6,351 in the opener and inevitably the worst was 1,988 in the closing match.

 

The move to Wrexham provided an opener, despite the team not being up to scratch of 10,334.

 

Therefore I think we can see why people running/close to the club felt there was an audience to be had in Wrexham. Not only that it's only 35 miles, much along a motorway, from Warrington, more away fans possible for the crowd.

 

That year Crusaders won matches, and the crowd didn't drop that badly in fact the last game at Wrexham was 5,137. There was a pretty good fan base as good as Wakey and Salford.

 

Following year to finish the franchise coming bottom they averaged 3,377, London finished their franchise on 1,294. Again that was a relatively good crowd for a struggling non-heartland club

 

Post the end of the licence Crusaders came back as North Wales coming 8th out of ten clubs in the bottom league, despite that poor season on the pitch their best crowd was 1500 and they averaged best part of 1,000. For CC1 that was pretty damn good.

 

All the indications were yet again there was a pretty good fanbase if the club could do the business on the pitch

 

 

So 2013 they went for promotion, and again hit a pretty handy 900 average and finished on a high with 1,562 against South Wales.

 

I just can't see that the club "brought this on themselves" Mr. Spidey??

 

They saw an opportunity to invest in players to get into a higher division and build on that last crowd of 1,562 in a division that averaged 435. The figures show that there was great support for the club in Wrexham.

 

What was the alternative? To have kept the player budget low for 2013 and find themselves "surviving" for 2014, and again for 2015, and again this year?

 

I say "surviving", but when you look at Skolars 10 years in CC1 they have managed to lose a quarter of their low crowd. Hemel Stags in the last three years have lost a third of their "crowd".

 

For me there was an ambitious board of directors at North Wales who knew the club could not stand still and end up in a slow decline like Skolars and Hemel, they knew it was a risk, they knew on the figures they possibly could get into the Championship and survive and break even given that the support had been there for the club despite results.

 

In 2014 Crusaders would have survived in the Championship but for the massive P & R upheaval. They finished above Rochdale, Swinton and Barrow. They got better crowds than Haven,Rochdale, Sheffield, Workington, Batley, and Doncaster. Clubs who have been around for 30 to 145 years.

 

I truly feel sorry for the board.

 

The new system robbed them of their Championship status, forced them back into the "League of death" and fans started to walk away 640 last year........... 

 

I blame the RFL........  I blame 300 fans for deserting the club.......

 

So the message to Skolars and Hemel seems pretty clear.

Overspend on players, buy success with money you don't have, them blame someone else (preferably the RFL) when you've not just run out of money but also have creditors ready to wind the company up.

It's a well trodden path, but surely it can't be one any sensible club should follow.

This is all very sad for the fans at Crusaders - a great bunch.

[gogledd]

The Supporters Club has lodged a bid with the club to buy a 26% share and set up a Supporters Trust. If this is successful the fans who form the Trust will have a vote, a say in the future of the club and crucially access to the accounts.

[Spidey]

The Supporters Club has lodged a bid with the club to buy a 26% share and set up a Supporters Trust. If this is successful the fans who form the Trust will have a vote, a say in the future of the club and crucially access to the accounts.

That's a step in the right direction for sure. Do you think the investment from this trust is enough to keep hold of the players on their current wages?

[meast]

good luck to them, always found them very welcoming as a club, whether in Bridgend or Wrexham.

[gogledd]

That's a step in the right direction for sure. Do you think the investment from this trust is enough to keep hold of the players on their current wages?

We've not seen the club accounts and when we do we've (The Supporters Club Committee) have signed a Confidentiality Agreement so wont be discussing them of a public forum.

 

The current Board of Directors have had to cut the wage bill (twice) and have allowed current players to consider their future - this has resulted in a number of players leaving - but a whole load staying too, thankfully.  I'd guess the players wages are the biggest expenditure each month and the club has had to restructure to ensure the future of the club.

 

There is a desire by the fans to have a bigger involvement and control of their club to ensure financial stability for the future. Hopefully players seeing the fans coming forward already to sponsor them and proposing a Supporters Trust will encourage players to stay and in the future be confident that we can honour agreed contracts.